Thank you. It's a pretty clean install for a rookie, eh?

Now that I’ve had the chord cut for a few months, I have to say that my Roku/TouTube TV combo is excellent! I’m a huge football fan, and the YT virtual DVR is phenomenal for capturing all of the games. I’ve also binged a few sitcom series, which has been great given how the DVR picks up so many of the episodes in a short period of time.

Good question. They have antennas that are omin-directional, but they are best used in an area that have strong signals. And they have antennas that cover both UHF and VHF.

One thing you could do, is just drive around the neighborhood and see if you spot any antennas. That would help narrow down what is needed. If you do, snap a picture and post.

I'm sure that's part of it - the development of new features/products, the software, the support... relative to the sales. They can make more money elsewhere.

Will do. In fact I'll have my wife ask the neighborhood group on FB

Thanks! The one thing I worry about is thinking antenna XX will work and it doesn't or it's so big it's an overkill (translate: wasting your time and/or money). So asking around will hopefully narrow it down.

We can take this to a PM so we don't derail the thread too much.

Amazon had the 4 tuner/1TB on sale for ~180 not long ago and I almost got one...darn. I was using a HDhomerun quad tuner on Plex but that went belly up when we got hit lightning back in June. I figured I'd ditch Plex and just go w/the Recast.

Question: Why would you need two antennas? If it's for multiple T.V.s you can use a splitter too run both sets to the antenna.
I'm lucky. In my area, most of the TV and FM transmitters are on Mount Wilson only 18 miles away.
I'm getting my over the air on a 40 year old VHF / UHF antenna similar to this one:
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Other than FM Radio there's nothing else to receive on the VHF part of the antenna, but I have no problem pulling in channels on the UHF part on three televisions.

Stations not in the same direction would be the reason (or use a rotor with one antenna). The antenna you pictured is very directional, and stations at 7:00 o'clock is what it would be picked up long distance, and minimal stations at 2:00 o'clock (you probably know that). But antennas aren't perfect, and signals at 2:00 o'clock can be picked up if the signal is strong enough. In JustJared's case, the stations are sort of opposite (i.e. him being between them). And one set is UHF while the other is VHF.

One thing that can help is to use an antenna that still has decent (passive) gain, but isn't as directional, then that helps receive off axis stations.

I should add, I'm not an antenna expert (didn't design them). I designed transmitters and to a lesser extent, some receiver front-ends (i.e. LNA). So my module is the one that usually attached to the antenna. So I indirectly dealt with the antennas/antenna designers.

That's why I said I was lucky. All That had to be done was point the antenna in one direction. And FM Radio is on the VHF band. That's the advantage of having both pick ups in the antenna.

Same here - they're all due south.

So this would be your first step: https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps

Plug in your address info and see what's out there and an estimated of signal strength. That will give you a rough idea of the antenna needed.

What do you use for an antenna now?

Do you remember if WGN was VHF (hi or low) or UHF?

WGN "Was" a VHF station on channel 9. It's now a DTV station on UHF, and is virtual station 9 (broadcast on UHF channel 19):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGN-TV

I have been trying to get all football games without cable dang what a BITA!

What's her zip code? I'll look it up on the antenna app.

Since there seems to be a few people wanting to jump on the antenna bandwagon in this thread, I figured I'd share an email I sent to a Pinsider about antennas (albeit slightly altered). Maybe it will help answer some questions or at least get the ball rolling. I could write a book on this subject, but below might be a good starting point for some. So keep in mind this more of a '70,000 foot explanation' and doesn't cover all of the important details.

My email:

A little bit of an antenna/amplifier FYI below. I’m just barely touching the surface, hopefully not too much of an information overload. Lot’s a pictures to help with what I’m trying to convey.

My stations are all UHF and are about 20 miles away. Here’s antenna similar to what I had in the attic that worked well. This has 4 elements that receive the signal (good). Look at the ‘bow tie’ elements – that’s what actually receives the signal. So this receives 4 times (i.e. has higher gain) the signal as opposed to an antenna that has just one. If you’re tying to pick up stations in the attic, thru trees, snow, etc. this is important. If the antenna doesn’t pick it up adequately – there’s no way to get it back, amplifiers won’t help.

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I changed to a different antenna a couple of years ago (below). Come to find out I had a less than stellar TV, so I ended up on a ‘wild goose’ chase changing the antenna needlessly. The trees out back had grown over the years and I thought that was the culprit, so I had bought a higher (passive) gain antenna.

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Comparing the 2 antennas, the top one isn’t quite as directional as the lower antenna. More directivity typically has higher passive gain (i.e. can pick up more stations). This means the top antenna has less gain than the lower antenna (but both are very good), but is more forgiving w/respect to pointing directly at the stations. The bottom antenna has more gain, but the stations need to be more in inline. Keep in mind, these are UHF only – no VHF. Just using my setup (or equivalent) as an example.

In my case, I use a ‘Low Noise Amplifier’ (LNA) with the antenna (mounted at the antenna). This is an amplifier that is VERY quiet in order to help amplify weak signals. All amplifiers have noise associated with them. If the amp’s noise is higher than signal you’re trying to receive – kind of a moot point (the noise will mask the signal). So that’s why you use a LNA if you’re a ways away from the TV towers. Example below, albeit a little expensive. It does have separate UHF and VHF inputs (some have just one input for both). So the LNA gets the signal up to a decent level and it helps overcome cable loss from the roof to wherever the cable goes in the house. One downside to an LNA is they typically can’t handle large signals – they get overloaded easily. So this is only intended for areas that have weaker signals. The spec regarding how quiet the amplifier is called 'Noise Figure' (NF). 1-2dB is very good. If an amp says it's low noise, but doesn't actually give the NF number - it's a pass for me.

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At this point (antenna + LNA), hopefully you have achieved a good signal. Now you can go thru a lower quality distribution amp if you need to run to multiple TV’s. You already established a good signal with the antenna and LNA, so a lesser quality amp is usually OK. May or may not be needed. Here’s an example (VHF only tho, not UHF). But there's also a downside - having too much gain. More is not always better (you can overload the amp or TV). It's a balancing act between having some LNA gain to get a good signal and make up for cable loss, and enough in the distribution amp that if you split it to XX number of TV's, that you have enough signal, but not excessive.
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Hope this answers some questions people have about setting up an antenna and amps. Ask away if you have a question, or PM me.

https://www.amazon.com/Antop-Antenna-Inc-AT-800SBS-J-Amplified/dp/B095GFWZCK/ref=sr_1_3

This is the antenna that I bought about 2 yrs ago.
It can be used both indoor or outdoor.
Claims an 85 mile range.
I live about 45-50 miles from the Portland broadcast transmitters
and I easily get all the channels and sub channels broadcast out of Portland (>50 channels)
I have mine positioned inside near a window in an upstairs room.
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Use the free Sling App for OTA channels to redistribute to all my TVs thru Sling AirTV device to the ROKU devices.

I am a few months into the cord cutting process.

I recently installed this Channel Master 2016. It points north to where the bulk of the SoCal antennas are located. It picks up 189 total channels, including a lot of HD, pretty much all with 100% signal strength and quality. This includes the local major networks of course.

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This is connected to an HDHomerun Flex 4K installed in the wiring closet. That in turn uses the Synology NAS for DVR storage. All of that is run by Channels software, which is great. This arrangement all works well so far and the total ongoing cost is less than $10/mo for Channels. Channels DVR does everything a DVR should, let’s you set up season recordings, add padding before or after recordings, has a logical menu, and allows ff of commercials. Even better, it analyzes most shows for commercials and presents a skip commercials button that jumps over them with one click. This works great the majority of the time.

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What is not so great is Hulu + Live. Part of this is because sometimes, granted not always, but sometimes as in right now as I try to watch an episode of American Greed I cannot ff the commercials. I have to sit here and watch them, which is aggravating as hell especially because I am paying for the top tier service. But mainly the issue is that they have the absolute worst piece of trash imaginable for their DVR software. It’s not just me, a Google search will find plenty of annoyed users. You can’t add padding to the shows, you can’t look to see what is upcoming to be recorded, some shows stick in my stuff even after I delete them multiple times, and sometimes it starts recording in the middle of a show. It is literally a near useless piece of shit that any reputable company should be embarrassed to offer for sale.

The youngsters blame this on boomer thinking about how to watch tv. I do get that to a degree, and ok fine, I get that I can go back and watch any of the shows I want at any time. I can adapt, but then there is the stupid commercials thing.

I also now am running Netflix, Disney+, and Paramount+, along with Amazon Prime. There are other somewhat annoying issues I am still working my way through, particularly concerning surround sound. I find it particularly annoying to play a modern action movie and even have it in 4K, but then getting stereo sound instead of DD.

The streamer is a Chromecast Google TV, this seems to work ok.

Just wanted to chime in and say that the antenna location websites aren't always correct. According to most of them, I should only be getting 2 PBS channels when I actually get around 40 channels including all of the major networks.

Yeah, just a starting point.

There's so many variables (trees, snow, another roof line, maybe a hill) that it can be a bit of a WAG, but I'd still use it for a '70,000' foot reference. And don't forget about having an LNA (or not) or even the difference between different TV's sensitivities. If nothing else, it would be better to be conservative than to error on the optimistic side vs. having dropouts.

There's an interesting website called 'heywhatsthat.com (clueless why they call it that) that will estimate coverage, but I don't know if it's valid for UHF (I use it for Flight Aware plane tracking). Still tinkering around with it, but I think it might be geared more for higher altitude transponders, etc.. But it seems to be pretty darn close for planes.

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/

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Can we fully revisit this topic again please?
October 2022 and the cord needs a cutting at my house.

Please advise, I have spectrum and they are milking me.

I’m going to be calling their account retention department in the am.
I want to be ready.

I would just call now, but…

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My contact is up with Dish in a couple of months, and I am cutting the cord.

I am happy with an antenna I have, but I would like to know what the absolute best outdoor antenna there is, I would like to see if I can pick up even more channels.

Eventually I will also need to learn how to stream ESPN, for football next Fall.

Cancelled Dish many years ago, learned recently that Sling is the stream version of Dish. Had a lousy weekend with Sling when ESPN wasn’t available due to a dispute. Cancelled Sling and their answer was come back and we’ll take $10 off? Was already out way more than that because I had to switch to Fubo and basically paid for 2 services for a month.

May want to think about that if you are unhappy with Dish. Don’t get me started on my experience with Dish.

I have been happy with Dish, but I am trying to move away from most TV shows that are not on local channels for free.

I have been paying $82.50 a month, and no longer worth it when all I need is 5 months of ESPN a year.

please let use know what you come up with

A shared YouTubeTV account is the best thing I've ever done in my tv life. Perfect for sportsball people

I had already posted this here:

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I have DirecTV and for the last couple years, I simply freeze my account for six months. Basically after the superbowl, I freeze, and when preseason starts, u turn it back on. I need Sunday Ticket to watch the Bills and wasn't giving that up now that they're finally good! Hoping Amazon gets the rights and I can ditch DTV for good.

This antenna is very good for several local channels, while some other channels mess up more than they work.

ChannelMaster.com shows everything I should be able to get, but a few I do not get well, or at all.

Someone local had told me that they used to have the antenna that I have, and they found a much better one, and I do not want to call them about it, but at least I know there are better antennas.

Hopefully someone here will know the absolute best outdoor antenna and post it.

Never thought about that. I may see if Dish will let me freeze for 6 months after football season.

Depends on what I can learn about just streaming ESPN for 6 months at a time.

I’m fully converted now, and overall it’s a great improvement. Not perfect, but nothing is, is it? There are different ways to attack this, so my setup might not be the best for everyone, use it for ideas.

MONTHLY COST

As you can see I am saving about $130/mo from what I was paying with Frontier.

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UPFRONT SPENDING

HDHomerun Flex 4k $200
Antenna professionally installed $600
Chromecast Google TV streaming device $50 (that’s the price but I got it free as a gift, however I will shortly buy a second one for my second TV)

I didn’t worry much about spending money up front as I knew I would get it paid back from the monthly savings before too long. You could easily skip the HDHomerun and the antenna and still be mostly all the same, but read on for why I did it.

OTA SETUP Channels, HDHomerun, antenna

I already have a home NAS all set up with lots of TB of free space so it was pretty easy to add in the HDhome run. I had a great signal with the antenna that picked up about 185 channels. This includes all of the major networks which are all in HD. This combined with Channels DVR on the NAS and the Channels app on the Chromecast provides a proper DVR experience. This is also great for all network sports.

Monthly cost of Channels is low, and it’s worth it.

All those free OTA channels like ME TV are a boomer’s nostalgia dream, with every old show you can think of from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Some are interesting, some still hold up, some aren’t nearly as great as you remember them.

Favorite feature - when it records shows, it analyzes them for commercials and gives you a Skip Commercial button, one press and boom commercials are gone. This is great for any show on network TV, see Hulu Live below to know why.

HULU LIVE for Live TV and DVR as well as streaming content

This gives you the meat of all the various cable channels you might like. That includes all of the networks and various cable channels, which you can record. Generally it is OK, with some annoyances.

As I have noted earlier, the DVR software is horrible. Seriously it is so bad that it is just a disaster and an embarrassment. Google it if you don’t believe me.

More annoying, even though you are paying a premium for “ad free”, it’s not all ad free. In particular, shows that you record from live TV from the networks are not ad free, and you cannot FF through the ads. You have to watch ads, it is pathetic. I hate watching ads. And this is where the antenna and Channels setup is nice to have as an alternative, this gives you full commercial skipping power for shows you record from the national networks.

Otherwise Hulu is generally OK and you can stream lots of stuff and have no commercials. Like Archer from FXX.

DISNEY PLUS AND ESPN PLUS

These are both good with lots of good stuff I watch. They are included with the Hulu Live. But then, I also can get them free with my Verizon Wireless. That leaves me with the unsatisfying feeling that I am paying for them anyway.

NETFLIX

I was on the disc plan for years, and finally converted to streaming. It all works ok and has lots of content I watch, price seems reasonable.

AMAZON PRIME

Well I am paying for Prime already, so it seems basically free. It has some good content.

PARAMOUNT PLUS

Seems OK, a family member watches some stuff on there.

SURROUND SOUND

If the Chromecast TV is set to auto for surround sound, it works as it should with all apps which I consider important for the main TV. EXCEPT for Hulu. Because Hulu does not support surround sound on the Chromecast, although apparently it will on some other streaming devices. WTF Hulu you’re killing me.

THE REMOTE EXPERIENCE

I always try to keep things simple with the remotes so family members can work the setup and not bug me every five minutes asking how to do something. Before this was accomplished with a Logitech 650 universal remote which worked pretty well.

Now everything pretty much runs with the little Chromcast remote. By some miracle HDMI CEC actually works like it’s supposed to, so the Denon AV receiver, LG TV, and Chromecast all power on and off from one button, receiver volume is controlled from the remote and all navigation also. It’s not bad.

OVERALL EXPERIENCE

in general, it all works well. However, it’s not the same as having your cable DVR and managing everything from there. If you are used to that, you have to adapt a bit. Get used to streaming shows and working with the different apps, and you can get the content you need without too much trouble.

The Chromecast interface is a bit cluttered for my taste, but I’m guessing most streaming devices are about the same. It is nice to do voice searches across all of your apps to find content. All the apps remember what you have been watching making it easy to come back to where you were.

SECOND TV STREAMING

I have a second newer model and smaller LG TV in another room. I can actually do all of the above via the LG smart OS and remote, EXCEPT there is no Channels app available for that OS. For that reason I will soon add a second Chromecast TV to that TV. I was thinking about getting an Nvidia Shield for the big TV and moving the Chromecast over to the smaller one. But after working with this for a while, I haven’t found much in the way of limitations for the Chromecast versus the more powerful and expensive Shield. Just the lack of surround sound with Hulu. I still might get the Shield, haven’t decided yet.

FINAL TECHNICAL NAS NOTE FOR THOSE STILL READING

The Channels DVR app has a function that will let it access your other registered apps such as Hulu and set them up in the Channels DVR. This would then include commercial skipping for anything it records and would provide a proper DVR interface for all of your recorded shows, which would be peachy. BUT, this function will only work on a DVR hardware device that has an Intel CPU, and my Synology NAS doesn’t. Bummer. I might get an upgraded NAS if I feel ambitious, I’m not worried about the cost of it but the process of getting the 4 hard drives moved over and everything working sounds like a chore, even though Synology does have a migration process for just that. Still debating.

CONCLUSION

I’m saving money which is great, and I’ve got more good content than I’ll ever have time to watch. A lot of the content including OTA is 4k too. Not bad.

Any chance you have the make and model number of that antenna?

Is that the antenna, or something else?

Thanks!

Antenna is CM-2016.

The HDHomeRun is a sort of TiVO-like thing. It’s just a small box. You plug your antenna into it, and it has some tuners inside that let it work for live viewing or for a DVR. It also has an Ethernet Jack, so you plug it into your network (or possibly your router) so the tuners can be accessed over the network. Then you need a hardware device with some disc space to actually hold the recordings. A NAS works good for this, but it could be a computer or even some streaming devices I think could work. From there it is best to use the Channels app to access your DVR.

It might be a little bit of a pain to set up if you are not used to working with networking on the basic home level, but it does work great and easy once it is set up. If you pay the small monthly fee for Channels you get the live TV guide and all the DVR functions just like on your cable box.

Check this post for pics.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cutting-the-cord-tips-and-tricks-to-do-it-right/page/21#post-7157330

I guess I should add, there is no one antenna that is best for everyone as there are many variables that affect this. There are some good posts about antennas not too far up if you scroll back.

I was paying a guy who does this for a living to install it and I asked him to just give me the best antenna for my conditions and that’s what he came up with.

Southern Cal is nice as Girlloveswaffles pointed out in that all of the broadcast antennas are on a high point called Mount Wilson, and you have a decently clear sight line to that you almost can’t miss.

That is what I really need to find, someone local that installs for a living.

My antenna is 18 feet up in the air, but plenty of trees, no direct view of Atlanta from here.

I have tested and found that the trees do not matter, signal is just as good in Summer with the leaves on the trees.

I guess it is just a HD thing, but kind of a pain that when there is a bit of a signal loss the picture goes black, instead of just getting fuzzy, like back in the 1970's.

The major local channels are strong and clear though, and so is COZI, but some other channels I had never heard of, but should get, messes up too much.

It would be sweet if enough people cut the cord, that the NFL started losing advertisers, and money, and cut ties with ESPN, and put Monday Night Football back on local channels.

I mean C'mon man! If we have to pay for ESPN to watch a game it should be commercial free, or just put the games back on local TV, and show commercials the same as always.

For an OTA (over the air), first step is to go here to get a ballpark idea of what stations are around you: https://www.fcc.gov/media/engineering/dtvmaps
Post up your results.

Also, go to my post 1020 for a quickie antenna/LNA/amplifier FYI.

Philo for streaming cable. I'm grandfathered in at $16/mn, I think it's $25 now (but a few more channels). No ESPN or news, so sounds like it's a pass for you.

The more I think about it, even if Dish would let me freeze for 6 months, the 6 months that I paid 82.50 would really equal about 10 bucks for each game I watch, (college and NFL) and I really need to play my games more, and go fishing more, so I may get in a habit of just checking some scores, instead of watching games on ESPN.

Pretty sure the same company that owns ESPN also owns ABC, so no reason for all games not to be on local and free TV.

I can get rid of pay TV, but not internet. I am self-employed, and so much tax stuff and other stuff has to be done over the internet anymore it is just stupid.

With the post office always in trouble you would think that they would help keep it alive, but instead, everything has to be online, and no stamp money for mail to the post office. And this is nothing new, been going on for over a decade now.

Cut the cord about a month ago, what a drag. Xfinity cable made it so easy.

Havent seen The Walking Dead since the new season started because I dont have an AMC subscription. Or American Pickers, same reason. Most of the free tv channels are all reruns. Able to get about 4 football games on Sunday, that's about it.

I spend most of my time LOOKING for things to watch rather than having the things I like recorded from all the different channels and ready and waiting for me. Streaming sucks ass.

I still have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, but again, i'm searching for things to watch - those used to be reserved for when I didnt have any TV shows recorded. I'm gonna have to buy some more books, or actually start working on pinball projects.

I know I sound like a cheerleader for Philo (sorry about that), but give it a try. AMC is on the list, along w/a bunch of the typical popular cable channels. Includes an online DVR.

https://help.philo.com/channel-lineup/
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Here's a review: https://michaelsaves.com/streaming/philo-review/

Thanks, maybe i will -

How is Philo for the DVR software, and commercial skipping?

Also does surround sound work well?

I read a lot of reviews about Philo, and there seem to be a lot of people like you who really like it, but then there were also a fair amount that hated it and left. That's probably not unusual for just about anything though.

I mentioned I have the old grandfather plan at $16/mn. With that is a lesser version of the online DVR, so I can't comment on the better DVR with the current $25 plan. If I start watching a show, it ends up in the DVR. But if I don't watch a show, then it's not there. For the most part, shows are available to watch the next day (or sometimes immediately). I can skip commercials. The DVR isn't something that's I physically own - it's just online streaming. I use to start watching 'Better call Saul' and then watch later that night on the 'DVR'.

One thing I should add is most of the bigger name channels (i.e. AMC), you can log in directly to AMC with Philo being the cable provider. So you have options to watch shows that way too (some minor differences between providers).

There's no contract to sign. Just sign up and watch. Don't like it, simply don't renew. No buffering issues. Sound is fine, but I don't know if it's stereo, 5.1, 7.1, etc. (I run a 7.1 system). (Update: It's stereo)

I'm completely fine w/Philo. Years ago DirectTV just got too greedy and pissed me off once to many times. Adios and never regretted it.

I signed up for it on your recommendation - I'll catch up on The Walking Dead tonight and see how it goes -

Let us know if you like it.