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(Topic ID: 101236)

Custom Hook P-ROC project --ideas about rules?


By Mocean

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Mocean
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Hook Data East, 1992

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There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

ed_error.png
image.jpg

#1 6 years ago

A few folks know I'm working on this; might as well let some more people know.

It's a bit insane as the cost to go down this path is non-trivial, but I love the art and layout of Hook, and my son loves ...wait for it...Jake and the Neverland Pirates (did I mention he's four?). When he's older I'll sub the videos and audio for a regular Peter Pan theme, which is easily done with pyprocgame the way I have things set up.

There's a bunch that I haven't decided, and could use some input on.

1. Any thoughts on rules? I have to rewrite all of them
2. I'm certainly going with a VGA DMD; I'm tempted to try to fit a p2k head on it. Any thoughts on this?

Finally, a little preview.

image.jpg
#2 6 years ago

Awesome! I support any and all P-ROC projects. I don't think they get enough discussion time here on pinside. Glad to see a P-ROC project thread go up!

#3 6 years ago

Very cool that your making this Pin for your son My son watches that show as well unfortunately i havent really sat and watched it for more than a few minutes and cant help with any rule ideas But i say give the P2K head a try im sure you will be able to make it epic seeing what you have done with the Buffy pin so far

#4 6 years ago

Any chance of an lcd backglass instead of the p2k? I would love to see someone take it all the way!

#5 6 years ago

I would love to see the rules change to use the Skill Shot Diverter more than it was used.

#6 6 years ago

Very nice game to create new rules for! (I do like creating new rules ... in Road Kings 2.0 we tried both being 'original' and using good ideas of other games). But.....I don't know the game that well and I haven't seen the movie, so I don't have a lot of nice ideas for the rules at the moment. I'm sure you and the others here can come up with nice ideas though!

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from Glarrownage:

Awesome! I support any and all P-ROC projects. I don't think they get enough discussion time here on pinside. Glad to see a P-ROC project thread go up!

It would be nice if there were a separate topic for custom machines.

Quoted from Bonnevil69:

Very cool that your making this Pin for your son My son watches that show as well unfortunately i havent really sat and watched it for more than a few minutes and cant help with any rule ideas But i say give the P2K head a try im sure you will be able to make it epic seeing what you have done with the Buffy pin so far

Thanks! The show will be prominent in the game, but the core mechanics of the rules and modes will be influenced by the Hook playfield. I'm planning to make the game a bit more stop and go (at least brief pause, then go) than the game currently is now.

Frankly I haven't really say down and watched it either. I've heard a lot of episodes while coding for Buffy (and sent preview videos to Nelly that inadvertently have has Jake in the background as audio). My son has a lot of ideas about which toys should be where on the playfield. My requirement is lots of Corey Burton's amazing voice work as Hook; especially my two favorite quotes: "zig zagging is for losers!" And "run you scurvy princesses, run!"

The playfield layout on Hook is stellar; it could be a lot more than in currently is.

Quoted from Glarrownage:

Any chance of an lcd backglass instead of the p2k? I would love to see someone take it all the way!

Yes; right now I'm strongly leaning toward a "regular" LCD backglass.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Yes; right now I'm strongly leaning toward a "regular" LCD backglass.

Really? Ala WOZ or do you mean like the Buffy LCD?

P.S. Hopefully I can help in some way on this project!

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

Really? Ala WOZ or do you mean like the Buffy LCD?
P.S. Hopefully I can help in some way on this project!

Okay, I mean like we are doing on Buffy: Large format LCD where the DMD typically sits, but a traditional backglass sitting above it.

The Hook is a strange duck. The head is extra tall (relative to Williams sizing), while the DMD panel is short (because of the 128x16 DMD). I was originally going to repurpose a different game's DMD/speaker panel to use as the LCD mount, but now I think I might go even taller and still have a normal sized backglass.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Okay, I mean like we are doing on Buffy: Large format LCD where the DMD typically sits, but a traditional backglass sitting above it.
The Hook is a strange duck. The head is extra tall (relative to Williams sizing), while the DMD panel is short (because of the 128x16 DMD). I was originally going to repurpose a different game's DMD/speaker panel to use as the LCD mount, but now I think I might go even taller and still have a normal sized backglass.

Ok, yeah that is what I thought.

I say, if you have the room, make the panel as big as possible while keeping a standard translite size above it. That way you'll maximize the use of the size LCD we are using. That would be very cool!

#11 6 years ago

I've been looking at several of the 16:6.4 ratio ultrawide lcd panels like this one.
http://www.jenlogix.co.nz/product-details.cfm?catID=287&prodID=835&/SSD1515

I'm sure they are expensive, but not the only manufacturer that makes ultrawides, just an example.
They come in 16 inch wide and larger. If you want one the side of a baywatch DMD panel, it looks like the 18 incher would do. Very interesting technology.

I would bet TBL will use something similar in this ratio. If the graphics are to scale, it looks like they will use the pyprocHDvga mode at 480x256. If I recall you worked with a similar resolution, maybe dropped it a bit to 384 by something... for Buffy?

#12 6 years ago

Those ultra wide panels are awesome. I spent forever looking at things like that too but pricing was brutal.

Good memory on Buffy. Indeed we were using 384x192; now we are using 480x240. Those are 2 (or 4:2) ratios as opposed to 4 of a standard DMD (128x32). So we use a normal widescreen LCD and further opened the DMD cut out on a standard speaker panel. Typically they are cut open ~13" wide and ~3ish" high. Ours is opened to 6.5" high. Nelly has pictures in the Buffy thread. There's some display "wasted" behind the wood, but this is the same as ColorDMD does, but we get to see more of the LCD.

We're behind on a Buffy play test video because he suffered a SSD failure and we've been rebuilding his image. My machine is in the middle of a shop job that's been in process for the last two months (coding is more productive for me than physically working on pins).

Wait: this is the Hook thread!

So, yeah, my thinking is, like Nelly is recommending, go as big as is feasible. I really like the idea of a display that goes where DMDs go but is edge to edge (no speakers in that location). It could give a nice "panoramic view of the water"-effect.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from Docpinball:

I would love to see the rules change to use the Skill Shot Diverter more than it was used.

Thanks for the idea. I suppose it could be used like Road Show's "flying rocks".

Maybe in some mode if you complete a combo of right ramp, wind-coaster, then divert to the shooter lane for a skill shot that provides a two-ball multiball if you hit the skill shot. I haven't owned the game long enough to know how easy that is or isn't.

#14 6 years ago

What resolution is the image from in the screen shot above? It looks bigger than 480x240. Is that what would be on the DMD or am I missing something?

What's the highest you have gotten the pyprocHDvga? It wouldnt handle 1280x720 would it?

Oh and Im looking forward to see what you do with this one.

#15 6 years ago

Awesome! Please follow through with this! I'd love to install this on my Hook! My basic recommendation is to make the ruleset deeper and add some interesting wizard modes. Can't wait to see your progress. Good luck!

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from lachied:

What resolution is the image from in the screen shot above? It looks bigger than 480x240. Is that what would be on the DMD or am I missing something?
What's the highest you have gotten the pyprocHDvga? It wouldnt handle 1280x720 would it?
Oh and Im looking forward to see what you do with this one.

There are like six or seven specific display options that I added to the hdDMD fork of pyprocgame: width, height, fullscreen, x-offset, y-offset, dot-filter emulation, and scale. The screenshot shows 480x240 with a scale of 2. Rosh added a fps option. There are projects in the works by others that haven't been publicly announced that are running at higher resolutions. Rosh's mp4 real-time video decoder works well, too, to save space for video. If you want to do some fancy things with your display but you still love pyprocgame, this is where it's at:

https://github.com/mjocean/FullColor-hdDMD-pyprocgame

Quoted from Naturalprogress:

Awesome! Please follow through with this! I'd love to install this on my Hook! My basic recommendation is to make the ruleset deeper and add some interesting wizard modes. Can't wait to see your progress. Good luck!

Eventually I'll share game code but not dots and audio. I don't want to get sued by "the mouse". It's not the cheapest proposition in the world to do this to your machine ($700 or so for the P-ROC, Snux's awesome s11 board, LCD, and some mini PC), but those of us who love Hook know how much more this machine could be. .

Thanks!

1 month later
#17 6 years ago

Good old vga pyprocgame.

Got a decent way of getting video running with your build. Has been so long since I did any work on it though but just to show a quick example.

#18 6 years ago

Looks good.

Did you get it working with Unit3D? I can't tell what simulator that is but the two display windows makes me think so.

The latest updates to the VP-Proc bridge from me support System 11/DE with only one line of code change in the vpt. I've brought it a long way from the "recode 75% of the games vbscript" state it was in over the summer.

Sadly almost no progress on hook as we are working furiously to get Buffy ready for Expo.

Quoted from horseypin:

Good old vga pyprocgame.
Got a decent way of getting video running with your build. Has been so long since I did any work on it though but just to show a quick example

#19 6 years ago

That's using normal VP bridge there. The dmd is your pygame with dot filter but the video is with python VLC. We'll just have to wait & see for Unit3d support, you know it's really quiet that end.

When capturing it's pretty hard to make the upper flipper shot, but that plays video of cars coming over hill. You can hit this repeatedly over & over and it copes really well.

You can have as many videos as you like, stacked like 4x4 or whatever. The idea really wasn't to get rid of the dmd but just to use some video without using too much memory.

Quoted from Mocean:

Sadly almost no progress on hook as we are working furiously to get Buffy ready for Expo.

Ok. I'll keep an eye on this thread though because I'm interested in how you progress with it. I really don't like this game how it is, the music etc really irks me. Haha, it's definitely one that needs an overhaul

#20 6 years ago

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask. Had this page open so I'll take my chances. Been a long time since I played this table but every now & again this appears, when start is pushed or on the table loading up. I did search a while back but found no answer for it.

I don't know whether it's because of the bridge or not.

ed_error.png

#21 6 years ago

Gotta say, I've never encountered this, ever. It has to be from the bridge but I can't imagine why that would ever happen...

#22 6 years ago

The overflow error in the enable flippers code has a thread (and solution) on the pinballcontrollers forum. This is the thread post with that error, solution is on the last page.

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/forum/index.php?topic=1079.msg9198#msg9198

Good job nobody went back and replaced all those posts with a '.'

#23 6 years ago

Good job tracking that down! Super helpful. I've never seen it.

2 weeks later
#24 5 years ago

So do we have any updates on the custom P-ROC update?

#25 5 years ago

This project, not /exactly/. Buffy made it to Expo and it had all my coding attention. Believe it or not a bunch of what I've written for Buffy will be reused here and, less than a week before expo Nelly and I agreed that we didn't want to deal with the limitations of the ACRelay anymore so he rewired the flasher side to use the extra 8 drivers on the Sys11-P-ROC driver board and I changed the code so that it no longer is an issue on buffy. I intend to do the same for Hook as well, since I'm using the same board for this, too (and the DE machines have a LeftRight relay that's identical to the acRelay).

Hook will get some attention from me very soon, so watch this space

3 weeks later
#26 5 years ago

Well, there was a new episode of Jake on this week. Pirate Pinball. My jaw was on the floor the whole time.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3347264/

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Well, there was a new episode of Jake on this week. Pirate Pinball. My jaw was on the floor the whole time.
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3347264/

Well you found a quote mine.

If someone says "skill shot" or "multi ball" or anything along those lines the process of creating the machine may become quite a bit easier for you...

4 months later
#28 5 years ago

How is this project coming along? I picked up a hook over the weekend and LOVVVVEEEE it. Always interested in new takes on my fav games.

#29 5 years ago

Sorry. I've been working with on an intermediate layer on top of PyProcGame called SkeletonGame. It should make developing games on P-ROC much faster and I'm going to use it to develop Hook 2.0. I'll likely open source the game code but not the audio/video assets because I don't want a C&D.

SkeletonGame is being beta tested and put through it's paces by a few notable pinsiders (Curbfeeler is working with it for Pinbot 2.0 and Rosh is helping with it because, well, that's how he rolls). I'm going to get it out there for wide release sooner than later

I have to admit that I really like Hook, too. It's a fun game to play. The layout is really fun, and to me very reminiscent of a modified version of Cyclone with a hint of Hurricane.

#30 5 years ago

Really looking forward to SkeletonGame. Thank you so much for developing this.

5 months later
#32 5 years ago
Quoted from policano:

Hows the progress coming along?

It's hard to admit when you have too many irons in the fire, but it's true:
I have abandoned this project.

Sorry.

I sold my Hook a few weeks back. There were a few factors that led to this, but chief amongst them was that my son had outgrown and lost interest in the Jake and the neverland pirates show. It has been replaced with a Monopoly, a theme that I hope will have more staying power.

If anyone is interested in preceding with a project on Hook, PM me. Anyone who wants it, is welcome to the config files I genersted for Hook to run under PyProcGameHD/SkeletonGame.

At least working on this helped push both PyProcGameHD and SkeletonGame forward.

Back to coding Buffy for Expo...

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