Good morning! I am getting my first cup of coffee and headed into the workspace here shortly. I'll chime in with some configuration options for you then. I can also include a new controller option we shared publicly for the first time at CAX that should be the right fit for you game form factor and $$$-wise.

Aaro
FAST Pinball

Thank you for your patience! My having a bit of coffee is really better for all of us!

After looking at your specs, here are some suggestions:

Suggestion #1:

(1) FAST Core Controller @ $269
(2) FAST I/O 3208 @ $338 (2 x $169)
(1) FAST Smart Fuseblock @ $24
(50) FAST RGB LED Inserts @ $64
---------------------------------------------
Total: $695 USD

This gives you: Control of 256 RGB LEDs, 64 Direct Input Switches, 16 Drivers, Option for 2 Daughter Boards, hardware enable for switching off high voltage (tie to the coin door), Beaglebone Black interface (which includes: safe shutdown circuitry, audio codec and output), DMD interface, etc.

Suggestion #2:

(1) FAST Nano Controller @ $179
(2) FAST I/O 3208 @ $338 (2 x $169)
(1) FAST Smart Fuseblock @ $24
(50) FAST RGB LED Inserts @ $64
---------------------------------------------
Total: $605 USD

This gives you: Control of 256 RGB LEDs, 64 Direct Input Switches, 16 Drivers, Option for 2 Daughter Boards, hardware enable for switching off high voltage (tie to the coin door), etc.

The new FAST Nano Controller was the result of the growing trend towards LCD displays and the desire for a lower cost entry point into the FAST system. The FAST Nano Controller was first shared during our talk at CAX last weekend.

fp-cpu-003-1.jpg

You also mentioned the desire to add movement to toys. We have a Servo Motor Controller Daughter Board ($29) which controls up to 6 servo motors and seats directly into any of the FAST I/O boards.

fast-dbi-010-1.jpg

We certainly are new on the pinball hardware scene. We spent the last couple years developing the FAST hardware and the firmware/protocol that runs it. Traveling to shows around the country gave us the opportunity to meet a lot of people interested in building pinball. Many people came forward with advice and insight that they were compelled to share when they heard there was new hardware being developed. We studied the work of the forefathers and sought to bring in new technology to provide the solid base to build on for years to come.

We were very excited to meet Brian and Gabe of Mission Pinball who added our hardware to the list of those supported by their Mission Pinball Framework (MPF). We worked hard to make sure that our hardware and firmware made that experience as smooth as possible. Plus it has been a lot of fun getting to know them! By working on the hardware while they work on their software, we have enjoyed the camaraderie that goes with it. I challenge you to find any pinball software better documented than the MPF! Brian is a documenting madman!

While you certainly have options, we hope you would consider our offering. The active developer base using FAST hardware is small at the moment, but its growing with each package of hardware we ship. If you choose the FAST/Mission combo and find that the FAST hardware, support and community is not for you, you can always change hardware later and still use your code. But we will do our best to make sure that thought never crosses your mind!

Yikes, this post is dragging on. Please let me know if you (or anyone else) have any questions. All these details and more will be coming onto our revised website here soon. I am not the documentation pro that Brian is, but its getting there!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

It could be to have more RGB LEDs? The PD-LED says it only drives 28 RGB LEDs.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

For sure. I was just guessing at that being the reason for both.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

For sure. If you don't follow best practice guidance (keep light runs short, don't run them in parallel to high current, adequately power them, don't use poor connectors, etc) there is the potential for noise/issues.

But let's be honest here, Gerry specifically chose to develop a parallel LED drive system and not focus on chained LEDs because the RGB LEDs were not commonplace or affordable yet. As the price has come down, it made sense. We just intersected with the trend better because we started later. This also allowed us to implement a means of controlling lights and affordable RGB LED form factors that doesn't require you to limit the LED you use, RGB or white, based on price. If you use one of our RGB LEDs and it only ever stays white, no big deal. But Gerry is listening to demand and accommodating.

We have chosen to focus on the promotion and support of the products we have developed. We are not going to make a proactive effort to stake "us vs. them" into every single thread that pops up on pinside. Gerry has his design choices and preferences, we have ours. Ford/Chevy. Coke/Pepsi. We tried to factor in all that we could into the choices we made and continue to do so. If we are pushing out a product, please know that we considered what it would take to support it. The risk/reward, the cost benefit, etc. We will certainly include best practice guidance for using RGB LEDs controlled in the method we implemented. Right now, most of that support is given one-on-one. This is making for a great basis for the documentation and guidance needed more broadly.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Certainly. The point I was trying to make was I don't jump into threads with the intent to tear down other designs. Quotes like Gerry's below:

"OMG! Stay away from FAST because they are using technology that when used improperly has the possibility of issues!"

But these conversations are reminders that we MUST get our product details and documentations wrapped up (seriously, working on it in any spare minute I can!). So many of these questions would be answered! AND it would allow us to highlight what we think are big positives, too. Like how getting your FAST hardware up and running and communicating with the controlling PC only takes the installation of the FTDI Virtual COM Port driver. Or how getting the Mission Pinball Framework to run on FAST only requires defining the 3 FAST COM ports in the MPF config file.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Where was I attacking you personally?

The closest to an attack was the assumption that you probably didn't design your LED controller firmware to run serial RGBs because it wasn't commonplace or affordable. I applogize if my assumption was off. In the time we have been doing this since early 2013ish, this has been true. RGB LEDs have become more affordable and useful in the WS2812 package. I wasn't saying that you weren't aware of the tech or anything like that. This is the same way that we are watching other LED technology pricing come down so we can make other form factors and controllers that allow us to get them to market in a way that makes sense for our business and makes them affordable to users.

I may be frustrated by the tone of your comments from time to time or getting pounced on by your buddies, but I don't mean to make this personal. Heck, I had even posted about my Lexy experience at CAX earlier: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lexy-lightspeed-cax-2015#post-2580144

I don't want bad blood between us. I respect the engineering work you do. Seriously. When you came by our booth at CAX I was excited to show you what we had built because I figured you, more than most, would appreciate all the hard work that it takes to make hardware. Plus the FAST WPC Controller you were holding I built by hand (like 350+ tiny surface mount parts!). When you asked where we made our PCBs, we shared it with you. No big deal.

Let's conduct ourselves like we do in person. Civil and respectfully. I'll do my best to make sure my posts don't skew personal. If they could be taken that way, please give me the benefit of the doubt. I will do the same for you.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Right on, man.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

I don't recall the rate at which we do it but with the FAST controllers we are constantly rewriting the RGB LED values, like Snux mentioned. Your worst case scenario would be a extremely brief moment where an LED was the wrong color. This is why we have an ARM processor and a 328 dedicated to managing the RGB LEDs. The bandwidth hog of all that light show data (color changes, fades, etc) would slow down the system significantly if we were doing it all over one shared connection with the switches and drivers. There would be increased potential of missing switches being read, etc.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

What is the voltage back spike issue? If the RGB LED controllers are properly protected and the pinball game is properly wired, there shouldn't a risk of destroying your controller or LEDs.

Has someone experienced this first hand? I'd love to know more about it. Maybe it is a situation where users were plugging in arduinos or something into other systems without adequate protection?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

There were ground issues in the WOZ. Dave (partner w/FAST) had noticed that when they first brought the game to our NW Pinball Show early in its existance. Even mentioned it to Jack. Everything was tied together in a way which left it susceptible to all the stuff we have been talking about.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Completely agree!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

my idea of vacation is relaxing with nothing to do. Everyone else wants to go do things, so it's been slower going than I expected. For others chompin at the bit I have been sharing the Google Docs version. PM me an email address and I can share that right now in the meantime. Thanks for your patience.

Aaron
FAST Pinball