Greetings! Long post imminent. Pinsiders likes to have opinions, and I would like some of yours especially if you have experience with either.

I am tired of just talking about “what custom pinball themes would be cool” to make, and will try to actualize it into something real. Working on draft# 3 of the playfield design for a MASS EFFECT pinball, and the time has come to get a wood working.

I have read about P3-ROC and FAST pinball boards , but I still feel I lack enough technical insight as to which I should choose. My criteria:
1. I am a programmer, but I would still like good documentation and intuitive code/framework.
2. As of now my only experience with wiring and such is from fixing machines. I would like the least amount of wiring and complexity, to the degree its possible of course. After all, we are talking about a pinball machine Also documentation/tutorial on how to setup everything with power supply, wiring and such is desired.
3. Price.

Currently this is what my machine will have:
- 3 flippers
- 1 Magnet
- either a) 14 standup targets and 1 dropdown target or b) 6 standup targets and 9 dropdown targets
(depends if the cost will shoot up with the extra 8 dropdowns input wise).
- 1 spinner
- slingshots (ofc)
- NO popbumpers.
- 2 ramps
- A certain amount of rollover/gate switches for in/outlanes, orbits, ramps etc.
- LCD display
- Maybe a motor for rotating a toy (BDK's joker revealer) if possible.

I got a tips from Gerry what a normal pinball machine would require:
P3-ROC:
1x P3-ROC 275$
2x PD-16 200$
4x SW-16 240 $
1x PD-8x8 (for a lamp matrix) 100$
1x PD-LED (for LEDs) 90$
Total with VAT:1131$

And then I saw the FASt bundle which is much cheaper but maybe have less of something:
FAST Pinball core bundle: 499$
(1) FAST Core Controller
(1) FAST I/O 3208
(1) FAST I/O 0804
(1) FAST Smart Fuseblock
(50) FAST RGB LED Inserts
Total with vat: 623$

But I assume there is some difference between those two,
can anyone help me point them out? Would the FAST core bundle suffice?
Also the Mission Pinball Framework seems very intuitive.

If you are still reading this, thanks
Morten

Absolutely, thats part what I need some help with getting correct, to get a fair comparison
Also determine what i need and not need.

If there is a way to avoid wiring it all in a matrix I would really prefer that (ie an easier way). Gerry wrote that the P3-roc made wiring MUCH easier, that is why I initially put that up against FAST. But he also said that I could go for the P-roc, in which I would use the following:
1x P-ROC 325$
1x PD-16/master 110$
1x PD-16 100$
1x PD-8x8 (for a lamp matrix) 100$
1x PD-LED (for LEDs) 90$

Total: 725 $

But maybe I would not need all that is there? Though I am leaning slightly towards what makes it the easiest to wire and put together.

Will that mean only room for example 12 coils?

I went over my current playfield blueprint and tried to make a short list of the switches. As of now, it seems to be 44 switches, but Im sure there are some I might have missed.

switch_overview.png

Forgot to add the magnet. But realize I have yet to research how a magnet works in pinball, if it is using a switch/or how it detects a ball passing over.

Thanks, Knew there was some basic switches id forgot! Working with the design virtually has its tolls

Thats was just what Gerry wrote me as an option with P-Roc. Dont know enough about exactly what I need yet. I have made the list of switches, coils and will be starting on the inserts/lamps but that is bound to be changed as I am developing the rules, getting some new ideas etc.

I understand it might get abit heated between devs when comparing products, I just wanted to get input on the technical and practical differences between the two systems and what would suit my needs (some which I am also working out long the way).

I agree that documentation surely will answer alot of my questions, and also Im sure there are questions I havent even thought of yet, so looking forward to it. Its also very valuable to hear from users of each of the systems, since they usually dont have the same marketing/financial interest as the owners/developers of a product normally have

Good to know. I like DMD for the..retro sakes, but I have decided I want to use an LCD for this project.

Yup I get that now, part of the reason I wanted input because I thought there had to be some differences, I just did not know what. Ill go deeper through the posts tomorrow and will get back with more details/question im sure, Im still quite "in the dark" as to what may suit my needs and eager to learn more about what both system offers and what suits me.

First off; this is new to me, and therefore a little "greek" as we say over here

What is visually the difference between chained leds and led inserts through the pd-led? Are chained basicalle one single chain going through every led under the playfield while with the pd-led its one wiring out to each led insert and back to the board?

I am mainly developing in C# (through work), but thats means java is also basically the same, also I started out with java throughout my bachelor. I actually thought of programming this pinball through some framework based on python could be a nice way to also get into Python. I might be wrong, but I dont think the langauge in itself is the main obstacle as long as the framework is well documented and contains examples, tutorials etc. The physical part is probably more challenging.

I read through some of the MPF documentation yesterday and it seemed quite okay.

So I guess the language in itself is not that important for my choice if it is between C# or Python (even though they are quite different). Currently I am programming a little in VBScript for future pinball, so I can adapt to new language if there is tutorials and documentation/examples. But good point, Horseypin.

Will check into netprocgame.

Thanks for a VERY detailed and informative post regarding the lightning, it is somewhat brighter (hehe) for me now

Is this still as relevant/not that relevant if I wont have no RGB LEDS, just plain white and single colored LEDS for different inserts?
Havent yet decided, there are som spots where RGB leds could be useful making jackpots/mode arrow inserts change colour based on the mode, but most of the inserts wont be needing more than one color. as of now at least

Well this was slightly derailing guys, feel free to take those personal discussions through pm's. I am not programming my idea finished in fp, thats just playing around to get a little feel with music, some basic lights etc but primarily making a playfield blueprint.

I tried a little vp but it feels so outdated visually which kinda turns me off somewhat. The plan is not to maje a complete virtual pinball before making it physical.

Hmm ok so with Vp i could could and design a game and basically use that same code for the physical game with the boards i settle on?

this is my impression of what MPF is doing, at least the documentation i read made it seem very informative and relatively easy to follow..

I downloaded vp10 and immediately saw thatthe 3d-rendering and physics feels much better than vp9. Guess it wouldnt hurt spending some hours recreating my table in vp10. But i only need vp10 and the bridge you linked to? Something tells me its more complicated to set it up correct?

Sidenote: do you know if its any stern sized vp 10 table templates, to get it correct?

Thansk for great input and opinions, Im taking it all into consideration. I agree that the scope may change in six months time. I also think that I will be able to make this game with both FAST and PROC hardware, its just two different approaches leading to the same ending

Regarding your question; I have some friends who are very big fans of the Mass Effect game trilogy, and Im planning on consulting them and letting then come with input and suggestions for the rules and modes. Also we have a very good pinball community here in Oslo, so I will definitely let the others try out the prototype. I have a friend who works with 3d modeling and animation, and also a tattoo artist whom I possibly can hire for painting the artwork. So I try to pull in those with more skills and experience than me on certain areas

Though I am used to doing much on my own, I wrote the whole debut album for my band Frail Grounds which was a long effort but amazing when having the finished product in my hands. Anyways, back to pinball

Reading this I suddenly got some cool ideas on how to implement and make use of different colored leds... oh damn.

Nice to hear from someone using them without issues too, although I understand the potential issues people are mentioning

Just chiming in, been busy with vacation and also planning our wedding, and while waiting for documentation for the FAST (not to stress you Aaron ) I have been working on the concept, rules and design for my Mass Effect pinball which is time consuming

So will wait for more documentation (and also the dollar currency to sink ) before I dive into making a decision for the hardware.