Except for a few (e,g. Tron LE), I suspect we will see most LEs stabilize into the range of (Premium + $1k or less).

Most hobbies to who just want to play aren't going to pay the LE premium - that is going to be those that love the theme almost more than anything else and/or just have to have the extra bling. I think we are seeing that the LE cost premium has become the "I gotta have it tax".

This isn't going to hurt those new to the hobby - the average person isn't going to be spending $7,8,9k on an LE (or probably anything else), but it is going to slow down those that like to buy every game, play/sell them and get something new because they won't want to be in the position of losing a couple grand to do so.

When I bought STLE, I knew I was going to "lose" money right away - I bought at the September preorder peak, bought from a local dealer (sales tax), and wanted extra bling (great work by Pinball Refinery). I don't even know exactly how much $ I have in the game and not a lot of interest in doing the math. Why? Because I can't imagine even thinking of selling the game any time soon. Don't know if I will have it 20 years, but I'll certainly have it more than 20 months or 20 weeks.

I wanted the game (loved the back glass and hated the coloring of the Premium), like the ST theme even though I'm not a big fan of the reboot, wanted a Trek pin again and wanted a fast Ritchie pin.

Very few themes are going to make me consider an LE, so paying an occasional "gotta have it" tax isn't going to bother me.

Sounds like a 2 hour seminar you would find out pinball expo.

Believe me, titles of scientific articles are far more boring than that one...

It is deceiving because it appears as though it is saving space, but it really doesn't save much at all. And not being able to fold the head down... Bad idea #2. I still think it is unique and not ugly, despite other's opinions.

tron-daftpunk-multiball.jpg

The pinball market disagrees with you.

LOL...yeah, that's worth $5k.

I get it on the prices. The secondary market for these is taking a dive. I was playing my STLE last night and stopped to think that I really enjoy the art package etc. Its damn nice. I didn't feel like LTBR LE was a lot nicer than my ACDC Prem, but some did. No big deal. I have seen some pretty awesome MET Premiums also.

Collectibles (including pinball machines) if viewed as investments, are extremely risky. When the market/hype goes up, collectibles will skyrocket in value, but if the market gets saturated and/or the hype wears off, the prices will go down. This downward price trend may be what we're seeing now in pinball, I don't know (since I can't predict the future).

My personal opinion has always been that buying an LE as an investment that you expect to go up in value or at least sell for what you bought it for is a very unreliable plan.

I bought STLE because we are huge Trekkies, and Steve Ritchie designed it. I already have STTNG and would have bought STLE pretty much no matter what. It turns out, IMO, that it is a fantastic game, especially with the 1.5 code, which is great. I don't ever see it leaving my collection. This is partly because we're such big Trek fans. That's the reason to buy an LE, because the theme is extremely important to you and you're going to buy it no matter what, and you want the extra cosmetic details. Buying it and counting on it not going down in value is an extremely risky plan (as recent history has shown).

If you're buying it only for gameplay, and the theme doesn't do anything for you, then just buy the premium (or pro if the premium features aren't enough to justify it). But still don't be surprised if the price goes down. The market is saturated and prices may very well continue to go down.

WOZ is a great game and my wife wanted one after playing it at TPF 2013. The theme does absolutely nothing for me, so I just pre-ordered a standard. It's a great game and we couldn't be happier with it. We don't care that it doesn't have green or red trim, because we're not Wizard of OZ superfans. We just like the gameplay features and the way the game looks and sounds.

I've always felt that pinball machines aren't an investment, but rather just a fun (and very expensive) hobby. If you want an investment, buy a mutual fund. If you want a fun toy that may or may not go up in value, buy a pinball machine.

Just my two cents.

I think the Tron LE prices will now follow the tron pro prices.

As mentioned before, the pro and LE don't have 5k of a difference...especially with Eli's kit.

Can we conclude that

1) prices are coming down

2) pinball machines aren't investments

And put a bow tie on it

facts are facts...
hot chix dig a Tron LE man, that's why i have 1
you just can't put a big enough value on that.

tron-guy-legacy.jpg

The exact same thing was said 1 year ago.

Exactly.

I just love how so many people constantly repeat the mantra that pinball machines are not investments. This statement is usually in response to someone who points out that prices are falling, or will fall, or to someone who says that they don't want the value of their collection to fall by a significant margin. They think that anyone who feels that way is obviously looking at pinball as an investment.

Rinse. Repeat.

ps. Both Tron and Tron LE owners are cool

tron-toon-1.jpg

Yea, they aren't investments when they are going down but are when they are going up.

Keep barking about it, troll...won't make it come true.

AC/DC BIBLE and AC/DC Premium have even LESS difference...only cabinet/backglass art....yet, BIB is valued way more than the Premium.

It is what it is. If you want a Tron LE just suck it up and buy one or stop trolling about it.

This is the first time I've ever had a stalker on the West Coast. I never thought in a million years that would happen. You're not gonna like follow me around when I'm in LA in January now, are you?

Anyway, others and I are looking at the Tron Pro vs Tron LE prices. Just 90 days ago, Pro's were sitting around $7,000.

Not so anymore.

Now they are sitting in the low $5,000's...for a modded pro. No mods is down in the $4,000's now. 95% same game for 50% of the cost...this is a no brainer.

Screw the LE, I'm officially out of that market. I'm all in on the pro.

As for AC/DC, haven't they sold over 100 million albums worldwide?? Didn't Back in Black alone sell over 30 million units and is considered one of the greatest albums of all-time??

I don't ever recall pros at 7 grand. Your seeing a 3K drop in pros? I'm not.

Gloom and doom. It's not all that.

Reputation, selling tactics, ( honesty), location, timing, prices based on condition and use not just priced at fire sale OR priced at what you want+50%, etc all affect sales. I work with some awesome salesmen, they can talk the most stubborn and negative folks into almost anything.

In the end with MY sales of my collection, I'm all about one thing. NO BUYERS REMORSE. If they are on the fence about buying, I make sure to let them know it's not required they buy. Haggling with me is useless, as I price fairly, so just come with the agreed price, we will question and answer, you'll be happy and take her home or you'll leave and consider, or just say ok, thanks for the time, and look elsewhere( hasn't happened yet).

I don't sell less than pristine. These are my babies. I still miss them all.

Don't flatter yourself, troll. If you haven't noticed, this is a message board. You posted to it, starting a conversation. I'm engaging in the conversation just like everyone else here. I'm not "following" you any more than you're "following me" or anyone else here. Don't be a hypocrite.

i think a lot of the overall market cash is just tied up into some of the soon-to-be releases.
i know my 2014-2015 budget is totally spoken for, just from a few pins.
other than those (which don't exist yet), my buying activity has frozen
(except for: mods, going to shows, pin t-shirts, & nice cigars )

"Everyone" is not selling their STLE.... there were 799 made, a dozen or two for sale is normal as people change up their collection

You have to love the trolls that can find one sub 6k STLE sale and establish that as the new "price" for that game. It is even better when they find a tron pro with an "asking" price of $7000 and then claim prices are falling based upon a recent sale. The potential for Vault Editions has changed the dynamics on certain tables; who would have thought IM would go from a 6k game to a 4k game in hours. Tron? If that happens to be the next VE should a potential seller consider placing an ad now vs waiting? Troll away people! Claiming LOTR is a $4000 game doesn't make it so.

2 and several not selling at 6500 is a trend not an anomaly. sadly its not trolling its becoming fact.

Fiction not fact... If those were the only two that had sold then I would stipulate; the chicken little pundits, unfortunately are cherry picking outliers. Reference a post in a recent for sale thread.

image.jpg

Like your truth with LOTR a few years ago? The guy who wanted an LOTR (top of your wish list) tried in vain to artificially influence the market by mentioning a) local sales that nobody knew about, b) cherry picking low end outliers or c) questioning high end prices as accurate. You are using that same stratagem here. You a) question higher prices as legitimate and b) cherry pick low prices to justify your position. My interpretation of sales see a range of $6000-6800 with most of the prices being in the middle of the distribution curve. With only a small amount of patience a seller could easily be north of $6500; that is fact and cannot be disputed. Sure a sale would happen at $6000. Why wouldn't it? If sales are happening at mid to high 6's why WOULDN'T a buyer purchase at a price that reflects a 10% discount. FYI I did update my collection just for you!

Everyone can panic now ... Now that I bought a Trek LE @ $6500, the market will plummet to sub $4K probably this week ... it's the effect I have on the market .

You Big Bang Bar and Tron LE owners should be happy I chickened out and never bought them when I had the chance when they were released ... had I bought them, Tron would be considered the worst game of all time and all Big Bang owners would have realized that it's not all its cracked up to be (though I LOVE that game) .

Not sure why he goes on these crusades and I don't really care except for the way it is presented as fact rather than at all debatable. Look at the threads about PPS, he has a wild hair up his butt there too. At this point you can just point out the facts and move along. Time will tell the true answers to all of these first world issues.

Dude, Im not arguing those sales either. But I do know that 1.5 years ago they would have sold at list plus, Now they sell under original price plus our few "Cherry picked prices" .
Thats a new reality and trending.
I have no problem with you ignoring it but its still the case : )

OUCH!
I can feel that one all the way in CA!

Why is so much s

I agree with this; why is so much sweat and tears being poured out over the current price of STLE? Is the price $6800? $6500? $5999? Or mebbe its $6327?

Who cares? It is clearly not selling for over NIB prices (NOT A SHOCK!). Anything else is left to the buyer and seller during a given sale. Pumpers and DUMPERS are equally annoying at this point... pay what you are willing to, able to afford, and are comfortable losing. Sell for the amount you want to sell it for, if it drops to the point you "would rather keep it"... then keep it.

Methinks this might be too simple to grasp?

And you're just now figuring this out? I've been saying basically the same thing for more than a year now. It's old news. Read some of my old posts if you want to learn why it's happening. These threads are stupid. I won't contribute to the stupidity.

It means that the only area left for growth is in location play. Keep your games clean and working and support other operators in your area. Those two things are the best ways you can support the hobby right now. Yammering here about LE prices accomplishes nothing.

thats 5% FYI

Lol, you just did : )

If I thought of pinball in terms of investment or what other people deem fair value I would stop buying them all together. Its a game and yes a collectible which means its worth something different to each individual. I was told once that I was responsible for increasing prices on used games because I would overpay for them but I didn't care as I wanted that game now and wasn't going to take a chance of losing it or waiting another year for it to come up again. My STLE is worth a lot more to me than what they are selling for and I love it.

Anyone wanna buy my STLE with ColorDmd, custom topper, Pinbits mods, pinball pro speakers for $7300?

And no that doesn't include shipping.

It's actually pretty great with the smoothing software they have now. I'm using a very pale greenish/bluish hue for color. Looks tons better than stern display. Would love to put ColorDmds in all my pins.

Where did you get a colour DMD for STLE?

I understand that good pinballs price go up but are re-manufactured and ill go losing value unless Stern him to re-edit the best pinball for then go down the price of the ancients, because I prefer a medieval now led and upgradeable, shaker and others.

It's a ColorDmd, and it's in a STLE.
image-730.jpg

image-379.jpg

that looks dope

ColorDmd is the shizzle. I'm putting one in my TWDLE as soon as it's opened.

Or you could buy this pro, "UPGRADED to LE"

atlanta.craigslist.org link

Ahahahah...f'ing EL wire, not even the Eli kit! HAHAHAH...what a dick seller.