(Topic ID: 249471)

Current/amp draw from pinball machine...


By MoSeS_1592

6 months ago



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  • 23 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Nikrox2
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 6 months ago

    I want to have my game room set up on four remote control outlets so I can turn on four different sections of my game room from the main doorway to the room via a remote control. Each outlet receiver module can handle a 10 amp load. I'd like to have three machines on each outlet. The machines each have over 90% LED replacement and are a mix of Williams system 6-11, bally 6803, and one LW3 (DE 1992 dmd).

    Will it be safe to run 3 pins (and maybe an old pc with a 19" LCD monitor for a MAME cab) on each 10 amp receiver module? To be clear each module is 3 prong grounded and will have a multi-outlet surge protector directly plugged into it to feed power to the pins.

    Thanks!

    #2 6 months ago

    I would say 10 amps is going to be close.
    My games main fuse will work on 4 amp fuse with led lights, and when
    you power up the game it will draw more than in attract mode.

    #3 6 months ago

    If you like I can check tonight when I get home with an amp meter. Personally I think running close to the rating (10 amp) will be problematic for longevity of the module.

    #4 6 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    If you like I can check tonight when I get home with an amp meter. Personally I think running close to the rating (10 amp) will be problematic for longevity of the module.

    That'd be great. Thank you!

    #5 6 months ago

    I’ve always heard people say 4-5 games on a 20 amp circuit is the rule of thumb.

    #6 6 months ago

    Depends on the game too, and how many things are on it, and what kind of lighting.

    Case in point, my Black Knight drew about 1.7 amps with incandescent lamps.
    IIRC it was around 0.6 amps with LED's.

    Haven't checked a more modern DMD at all.

    #7 6 months ago
    Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

    That'd be great. Thank you!

    Tried Gold Wings with topper and X-files (DMD title).

    Both are fully LED, both pulled around 1 amp at idle. The Gold Wings would peak out around 2 amps while being around 1.5 the majority of the time, the X-Files seemed to peak at 2.5 amps and was 1.6 to 1.8 majority.

    If you had three DMD machines being utilized at the same time I'd be concerned if they are on a 10 amp remote as you are operating at the units upper rating under hard play. Running any electrical device at 100% of rating usually courts failure sooner rather than later.

    You may wish to consider a back up power supply with master and slave outlets. When the device plugged into the master outlet shuts down it kills the other outlets. I have an APC unit that does this hooked to the living room flat panel. When the TV is off, it kills everything else in the home theater setup which is a lot with 2 media players with 2 hard drives, 5.1 speaker setup with sub-woofer, 2 or 3 game consoles, controller chargers, etc. The vampiristic energy losses from items that are ostensibly "off" can be higher than you think.

    Edit: You can also buy "power strip" style units without the battery and do the same thing. Just do a search on Amazon for power strip with master/slave outlets. Several are rated for 15 amp service.

    amazon.com link »

    #8 6 months ago

    Are they all going to played at once?

    I turned on six that are on a single 15A breaker. Three 90's, three +2010 pins, and two active subs (not doing anything). All LED'ed. Power draw was 800W according to Smartthings and a current sense on the pinball breaker in the fuse box. We usually do this every weekend but only play one pin at a time with the subs cranking with never an issue. But when company is over, two might be played at a time. Apologies...a little bit of a geeky comment: That wasn't what they refer to as 'VA' (apparent power), which is used when the current and voltage aren't entirely in phase - it was just 120V x current, so the numbers are a little misleading

    If you are really interested, I can plot by using Initial States that monitors the pins real time (i.e. current vs. time). Pins are rather sporadic - meaning they don't draw a lot of current all the time. It really varies with coils firing which are short term events.

    EM's are a different beast. I think the last EM I owned drew 500W (with LED's) just sitting there.

    Any chance your smart plugs report current or wattage? Many are able to do that.

    Sorry - I know your question was about the smart plug at 10A and my six pins are plugged into three outlets - hope this helps a bit tho. If interested, I can just run three pins on a single outlet if interested. When I did this, I was more worried about tripping the 15A breaker.

    But as others mentioned - you might be loading the smart plug a bit and would likely grab some more, or find some rated for 15A. Not sure how much I trust the Chinese smart plugs and their ratings.

    #9 6 months ago

    geek post.

    Adding to my post above, here's my power draw on 6 pins in attract mode and the two subs. You can even spot when I turned each one on. 794W total (not 'VA').
    pasted_image (resized).png

    #10 6 months ago

    3-4 amps per game. Also I think you’re not supposed to push the circuit more than 80%. So 2 games per 10 amp circuit to be safe. Might be okay with 3.

    #11 6 months ago

    Depends on the games. With LEDs those old games will pull half the power (or less) than they did with the original bulbs.

    This is a handy device. Been a while since I used it, but I can say that MM dropped to less than half the power draw when I swapped the backbox and GI to LEDs. Total LED swap would be even more, but some of these new LEDs with multiple SMD LEDs per bulb pull more power than the single SMD lamps that I use.

    Tekpower UT202A (Uni-Trend) Auto-ranging AC 600 Amp Clamp Meter with Tekpower Line Splitter M920
    by Electronnix
    Learn more: amazon.com link »

    #12 6 months ago

    I think your issue would be the fact that, if I am understanding it correctly, you would turn on groups of machines at the same time on a 10 amp circuit. The start up draw would probably all happen at the same time which could be problematic.

    3 pins isn't too many though so I would think you would just need to quantify the current drawn upon start up.

    #13 6 months ago
    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    I think your issue would be the fact that, if I am understanding it correctly, you would turn on groups of machines at the same time on a 10 amp circuit. The start up draw would probably all happen at the same time which could be problematic.
    3 pins isn't too many though so I would think you would just need to quantify the current drawn upon start up.

    Good point Earp.

    #14 6 months ago

    This might help. All games are LED except where noted.

    Alien Star - Idle = 1.06A
    Alien Star - Peak = 1.57A

    Avatar - Idle = 1.02A
    Avatar = Peak = 2.89A

    Bad Cats - Idle = 1.22A
    Bad Cats - Peak = Unknown (I don't think anyone played it that night)

    Big Buck Hunter - Idle = 1.14A
    Big Buck Hunter - Peak = 2.07A

    Demolition Man - Idle = 1.25A
    Demolition Man - Peak = 2.76A

    Metallica - Idle = 1.04A
    Metallica - Peak = 5.36A (Not sure about this...might be a false reading. The day before it registered a peak of 2.12A)

    Rolling Stones (Stern) - Idle = 0.96A
    Rolling Stones (Stern) - Peak = 3.55A

    Safari (EM - Incandescent) - Idle = 0.68A
    Safari (EM - Incandescent) - Peak = 2.57A

    Star Trek (DE - Incandescent) - Idle = 1.89A
    Star Trek (DE - Incandescent) - Peak = 3.45A

    Super Orbit - Idle = 0.77A
    Super Orbit - Peak = 2.30A

    Walking Dead - Idle = 1.06A
    Walking Dead - Peak = 2.56A

    Wizard of Oz - Idle = 1.46 - 1.92A
    Wizard of Oz - Peak = 5.29A

    I have one on Batman '66, but it's a different brand and doesn't log enough information to make an accurate assessment.

    Just to follow this up, I used to have 7 games and a popcorn machine in one of our bedrooms on the same circuit and never had an issue. It was funny when you walked into the bathroom and the lights would dim when someone hit the flipper buttons.

    I'm not advocating that you try and do such a thing, but I never had a problem.

    #15 6 months ago
    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    I think your issue would be the fact that, if I am understanding it correctly, you would turn on groups of machines at the same time on a 10 amp circuit. The start up draw would probably all happen at the same time which could be problematic.
    3 pins isn't too many though so I would think you would just need to quantify the current drawn upon start up.

    I've seen no indication that there is any start up draw higher than the idle current. Here are a few of mine showing startup.

    Demolition Man (resized).JPG

    Star Trek (resized).JPG

    WoZ (resized).JPG

    #16 6 months ago

    I did some power monitoring on a few of my games a while back. Below is a link to that post:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/power-monitoring-on-various-pinball-machines#post-4671325

    #17 6 months ago

    Thanks!!! This was all very useful. I think to start I'm going to try 3 pins and one MAME cab (with LCD) on one module and see what happens. It's very rare all three machines are played simultaneously so I'm guessing around maybe 7 amps or less while all three machines are in attract mode with arcade machine on. The only other device on the circuit is a fluorescent beer sign with a 12" bulb.

    I'm not too worried about ruining the module, it only costs a few bucks and its easily replaced. I'm more concerned about electrical fire risk, but I do have this entire circuit on a 15amp AFCI breaker.

    #18 6 months ago

    I have personally ran 7 pins (all Bally/Williams WPC) on one 20A breaker but if 5 or more games were being played at one time the breaker would pop.

    My current setup I try to run 3-4 pins per 20A breaker.

    #19 6 months ago
    Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

    Thanks!!! This was all very useful...

    And I bet you were initially looking for a simple answer.

    #20 6 months ago

    Ok, this may be a "poor mans" answer, but I bought two (2) small "remotes" that work with three (3) each supplied outlets (you plug these outlets, into a standard wall outlet ) There is an on & off button for each of the three outlets. So with that I get 6 total quick on & off buttons. (Stanley 3PK Indoor Remote - $24 for each 3 pack)

    I have all my games with their neon lights on different power strips to just those 6 outlets. So in a flash, I can turn all on or off (We used to have to turn 20 or more different items on & off, which became a chore!)

    I have one Shuffle Bowler, One Cocktail Arcade game, 11 pins, 11 neon lights - all on this "system"

    Nothing blows, and all turn on & off with no issues. I may be breaking some "electrical law" here somehow, but if it 'aint broke, it makes it so much easier to just grab these and hit 6 small buttons ( I have them on the same key chain hanging by the entry way).

    Hope that helps!

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    #21 6 months ago

    That is one hell of a setup you have there! Nice!!!.

    #22 6 months ago

    I turn on 5 at once. About 1 time out of 10 the in rush of current will trip a 20 amp breaker. When they are up and running no problem with current.

    #23 6 months ago
    Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

    That is one hell of a setup you have there! Nice!!!.

    Thanks! Appreciate that! And I think all of mine are on one 20a circuit. I do pause about 5 seconds between each button to keep the surge down (if any??)

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