Started noticing ghosting (LEDs on when not supposed to be) in Taxi shortly after I changed the lamps to CT supers with the controlled lamp kit. To make a long story short, could not be singled out to any particular row or column. In single lamp test mode, One LED on might light one, two or three LEDs elsewhere at a very low level. I tried a few fixes, including soldering a 470 ohm resistor in parallel with the LEDs like done with the Ballys. No resolution.

I noticed today the same thing also with High Speed, it's just not as noticeable as Taxi. However, F14 Tomcat that I populated with Cointaker premiums is perfect. Not a single ghosting issue noted when I step through single lamp test mode.

I settled on a solution of removing the LEDs from Taxi controlled lamps and returning them back to standard incandescent lamps. Not too happy about it - but I'll live with it for now. From now on, I will only use the premiums LEDs in the controlled inserts on System 11 games. Just let this be a warning of the possible problems you can run into if you are a Sys 11 owner.

#2 11 years ago

JAM

Wolfmarsh

Pinside member

12y 134K 10,956

OP
Quoted from wayout440:
shortly after I changed the lamps to CT supers

Do you mean supers or premiums?

#3 11 years ago

CLS

ChrisS

Pinside member

Carthage, MO

12y 82,350 3,017 25

Yeah supers will ghost in pins. Prem and ghost busters are made not to.

Chris

#4 11 years ago

_'_

Pac-Fan

Inactive member

11y 36,650 488

OP
Quoted from wayout440:
I tried a few fixes, including soldering a 470 ohm resistor in parallel with the LEDs like done with the Ballys. No resolution.

The 470 ohm resistor in parallel to the LED on Bally's doesn't address ghosting, it addresses the inability for the SCR to stay latched on due to the extremely low current used by a LED (20-40ma) compared to an incandescent that pulls 150-250 ma.

Bally's used discrete components (SCRs) to control each lamp. There is no 'lamp matrix'. Each lamp has a separate wire from a separate SCR with a common lead going to all lamps. The SCRs were designed to have a certain amount of current flow through them and when the LED doesn't provide that, it causes them to flicker on and off when they're intending to be on (as opposed to slightly turning on due to matrix issues.)

Therefore use of a resistor on a Williams Sys11 is only going to cause you to increase your amp draw on your lamp circuit for no additional gain. The only fix is to use non-ghosting lamps if the ghosting is bad enough/annoys you. My High Speed ghosts a tiny bit, but using the cheap Ablaze lights a bit farther back, they aren't bright enough to make it seem like the insert is on at all unless the room is completely dark.

#5 11 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Berea, OH

11y 113K 11,267 3 12

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
Do you mean supers or premiums?

Supers are ghosting (shipped in the kits)
Premiums are not ghosting (I hand picked these for F-14 Tomcat)

#6 11 years ago

NimblePin

Pinside member

13y 121K 5,415

Cointaker should just make all bulbs "Premiums"; re-name them "Standards"; then call it a day...

Mini premiums FTW!

#7 11 years ago

WIL

pinwillie

Pinside+ Frequent

Santa Rosa, CA

12y 74,050 1,215 4

Email Melissa, I'm pretty sure she will take care you.

#8 11 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Berea, OH

11y 113K 11,267 3 12

Quoted from pinwillie:
Email Melissa, I'm pretty sure she will take care you.

I'm not so sure about this suggestion, how much is really CTs responsibility to this problem? My thoughts:

They make the premiums for a reason. If I wanted to be certain to avoid ghosting I have the option to order them, correct? I chose to take a chance with standard LEDs in kits when I could have picked the premiums myself.

Isn't this a little like deciding to not get rustproofing on a new vehicle when the option is presented up front and then complaining when the car prematurely rusts?

CT has been great for service, quality of product, and timeliness and I will continue to use their products. I'll just steer clear of the kits from now on.

#9 11 years ago

JCC

nitrojcrawf

Pinside+ Frequent

Garrettsville, OH

12y 69,150 1,031 16

You can specify premium in any kit and just pay the difference. It falls on you to know and ask for it. Contact them and explain the problem and they will take care of you for the cost difference and shipping. Chris and Melissa support the product they sell.

#10 11 years ago

LKD

Luckydogg420

Pinside member

Kitchener, ON

11y 115K 5,861 14

I changed every light in my f14. I don't notice any ghosting, but I didn't order a kit. I picked each light one by one. That way I was able to play with colour choices, 170 deg wide angle or super bright. I bought my lights from playdium in Toronto, I don't know if they're coin taker bulbs, but I'm very happy with the LEDs in f14

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