(Topic ID: 287467)

Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, and Decentralized Finance (DeFi)

By Isochronic_Frost

1 year ago


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#2001 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Maybe you missed this:
Edit. A good way to hedge your bet against me would be to buy some BTC while it's cheap. Say 0.4. If you lost the bet, you still made money. If you win the bet, you probably broke even at worst. If it goes up but doesn't break 100k you would win on both ends.

Oh, I saw it. I don’t believe in sucker bets. You are free to take mine if you like.

#2002 1 year ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I saw this article for the first time today:
https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3
I found it pretty interesting since there have been possible warnings about Tether going around.

There definitely needs to be some regulation.

Regulation will take a lot of the froth out of the market there won’t be the wild swings and huge gains/losses. Barriers to entry for new startups will also be higher.

Lack of regulation was also cryptos appeal in the first place.

Interesting times.

#2003 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

It could be a means of currency. Anything we attach value to can be. I think where I start to question things is when I think about market stability. Maybe I am reading people wrong but it seems like people want to remove financial control away from one central point. So we could have any number of accepted currencies. Imagine what that would mean. You might wake up one morning and say, “Honey...,did you move our money to dogecoin today? Bitcoing just took a dump...Sorry I forgot..., Shit, welp I better put in for that overtime otherwise we are not going to be able to pay our mortgage.” It doesnt matter what we use as a means of payment but what we all need is stability. Again maybe I have everyones intensions all wrong but this is the vibe I get.

As far as a reserve asset is concerned...there is only Bitcoin in my opinion. All the other cryptos severe other purposes or are just flat out scams.

You need scarcity, security, decentralization and proof of work to even quality as "hard money". Only Bitcoin fits that bill AND has the network effects to fullfil it.

Other cryptos like Ethereum, Cardano, Link....etc... server other uses/functionality...and therefore will have value. But only Bitcoin will serve as a reserve asset.

#2004 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

It could be a means of currency. Anything we attach value to can be. I think where I start to question things is when I think about market stability. Maybe I am reading people wrong but it seems like people want to remove financial control away from one central point. So we could have any number of accepted currencies. Imagine what that would mean. You might wake up one morning and say, “Honey...,did you move our money to dogecoin today? Bitcoing just took a dump...Sorry I forgot..., Shit, welp I better put in for that overtime otherwise we are not going to be able to pay our mortgage.” It doesnt matter what we use as a means of payment but what we all need is stability. Again maybe I have everyones intensions all wrong but this is the vibe I get.

Until that resolves itself it has limited utility. At this point in the game it has too much variance and too many options trying to do their own thing (and you can guess why that is). What is going to happen is whatever the biggest banks and biggest players back is what will be the go forward solution - even if it isn't the best option. That is and how it will always be...just like VHS vs. Beta. Even if the governments try to squash it, they will at the very least put their very own version to the front. Whatever is easiest to use for non-illegal use cases in that scenario is what will be used. As it stands now, gray area/illegal stuff will probably always go with whatever affords them the most tax free / least tracking available to them. Because of that, the governments will forever be trying to crack down on them so no one wanting stability on the up and up is going to use those.

#2005 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Until that resolves itself it has limited utility. At this point in the game it has too much variance and too many options trying to do their own thing (and you can guess why that is). What is going to happen is whatever the biggest banks and biggest players back is what will be the go forward solution - even if it isn't the best option. That is and how it will always be...just like VHS vs. Beta. Even if the governments try to squash it, they will at the very least put their very own version to the front. Whatever is easiest to use for non-illegal use cases in that scenario is what will be used. As it stands now, gray area/illegal stuff will probably always go with whatever affords them the most tax free / least tracking available to them. Because of that, the governments will forever be trying to crack down on them so no one wanting stability on the up and up is going to use those.

I agree and that is the most likely outcome of all of this (hopefully). It is just scary to think what would be if there were multiple means of (legal) tender. I appreciate everyones input, thank you. I do have one more question. How is any of these coins used as a means of payment legally? Last I checked it is illegal to create your own currency (for obvious reasons). Isnt accepting cryto exactly just that? Or am I missing something here? Anyways....happy trading gentlemen just never lose site of all those things money doesn't buy, they are the most important.

#2006 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:I agree and that is the most likely outcome of all of this (hopefully). It is just scary to think what would be if there were multiple means of (legal) tender. I appreciate everyones input, thank you. I do have one more question. How is any of these coins used as a means of payment legally? Last I checked it is illegal to create your own currency (for obvious reasons). Isnt accepting cryto exactly just that? Or am I missing something here? Anyways....happy trading gentlemen just never lose site of all those things money doesn't buy, they are the most important.

One example:
A Dominos franchisee in The Netherlands just announced that it is going to offer its 1,000 employees the option to be partly paid in Bitcoin. I say "partly" because Dutch law requires minimum wage to be paid in Euros. They are using a Dutch crypto broker called BTC Direct to handle payments. BTC Direct gave its own employees the option to be partly paid in Bitcoin and mostly everyone in the company is doing it. BTC Direct is working with other companies & payroll institutions to offer the same service.

I think it's a great way to teach younger people money management and finance. I could've used it back in the day, especially when I was blowing my money on CDs and LaserDiscs.

#2007 1 year ago

Miami is trying to become the crypto capital of the US. I believe the city employees are offered some or all the wage in btc. There is a big Bitcoin conference in a week or two there. Wish I was going but wasn’t in the cards for me this year.

#2008 1 year ago

If you guys are looking for cult red flags somebody in this thread just said that something made up in the ether is the hardest currency ever to exist

#2009 1 year ago

That’s not at all what he said.

#2010 1 year ago
Quoted from highdef:

One example:
A Dominos franchisee in The Netherlands just announced that it is going to offer its 1,000 employees the option to be partly paid in Bitcoin. I say "partly" because Dutch law requires minimum wage to be paid in Euros. They are using a Dutch crypto broker called BTC Direct to handle payments. BTC Direct gave its own employees the option to be partly paid in Bitcoin and mostly everyone in the company is doing it. BTC Direct is working with other companies & payroll institutions to offer the same service.
I think it's a great way to teach younger people money management and finance. I could've used it back in the day, especially when I was blowing my money on CDs and LaserDiscs.

Cool, on pizza day no less.

#2011 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

That’s not at all what he said.

That is exactly what was said

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#2012 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

If you guys are looking for cult red flags somebody in this thread just said that something made up in the ether is the hardest currency ever to exist

Ether is different than bitcoin

#2013 1 year ago

As in made from the ether. It's an idea with no physical manifestation.

#2014 1 year ago

Great book btw.

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#2015 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

If you guys are looking for cult red flags somebody in this thread just said that something made up in the ether is the hardest currency ever to exist

I'm sorry you don't understand what hard money is. Reading about the history of money is a good start. If you understand why gold is hard money, and you understood how the Bitcoin protocol works, then it should become a little clearer.

#2016 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

As in made from the ether. It's an idea with no physical manifestation.

I assumed the wrong Ether then, my apologies.

-1
#2017 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I'm sorry you don't understand what hard money is. Reading about the history of money is a good start. If you understand why gold is hard money, and you understood how the Bitcoin protocol works, then it should become a little clearer.

Funds secured by real property, stable compared to other currencies? Money that doesnt sway 50% based on the whims of neckbeards, perhaps?

#2018 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Funds secured by real property, stable compared to other currencies? Money that doesnt sway 50% based on the whims of neckbeards, perhaps?

The thought is that over time and as more people use it (as a currency) it will be as stable if not more than fiat.

The problem with this line of thinking though is for that to truly happen it would need to stand on its own and not be converted to normal FIAT. As it is now, since 99% of the people holding crypto coins is to make money hoping it continues to grow in value, it is very subject to the whims of emotion and momentum, just like the stock market, but with fewer protections.

#2019 1 year ago
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#2020 1 year ago

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board. But some of the silly shit you all say makes you sound like unhinged religious fanatics.

#2021 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

As far as a reserve asset is concerned...there is only Bitcoin in my opinion. All the other cryptos severe other purposes or are just flat out scams.
You need scarcity, security, decentralization and proof of work to even quality as "hard money". Only Bitcoin fits that bill AND has the network effects to fullfil it.
Other cryptos like Ethereum, Cardano, Link....etc... server other uses/functionality...and therefore will have value. But only Bitcoin will serve as a reserve asset.

It is an interesting concept and I will continue to read here and there. I think the block chain is something in itself. I question what comes after all the coins are released. Then what? Can anyone say for certain how things would go? I am going to say probably not. I am a very open minded person, so even though I do not know much about this technology I do know that everything changes. Even if it doesnt solve any real inherent economic issues in the end, it could just be something different.

#2022 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Funds secured by real property, stable compared to other currencies? Money that doesnt sway 50% based on the whims of neckbeards, perhaps?

"The hardness of money is in reverse relation to the monetary inflation, and the consequent dilution of the value of the existing stock, which can economically be inflicted on it."

If you just look at government issued currencies then the US dollar is the hardest money. But clearly by the above definition, it's not very hard. Gold would clearly be much harder since it is much more difficult to inflate it's available stock.

By that same metric Bitcoin (which has a known fixed supply cap) is much harder than gold. There can only be 21 million ever. While each Bitcoin is divisible by 100 million, the important part is that it can not be inflated past its fixed supply cap.

#2023 1 year ago

I don’t get the comparisons to gold to be honest. People don’t buy gold to get rich, they do it because in times of inflation it is traditionally a safe thing to hold.

If you bought a block of gold bullion you would always have something that has a predictable basic value. Gold is used for a variety of practical applications, where it’s physical properties make it the best choice (notwithstanding cost), even before you consider it’s inherent aspirational worth, established over hundreds and hundreds of years. It will never be worth nothing.

I get the sense sometimes with people that they don’t know what BTC is supposed to be? Is it a currency? Is it a store of value? Is it something they seek to profit from? These things are essentially contradictory. Volatility is great for making money, but it’s poison to a functional currency. Why would you spend any BTC to buy something you can buy with fiat, when it could be worth 10% more by the end of the day? What incentive is there for businesses to accept it for anything beyond instant transactions (and even then it’s risky) if the opposite is the case?

I also think that in the main people are disingenuous about their reasons for buying cryptos. In this thread, and pretty much everywhere, people talk about what price they got in at and how much it’s gone up since. That’s what they’re interested in. Talk of utility and currency is only really a consideration when justifying (to others, and in their own heads) the rising price.

The simple truth is that in order for any crypto to be taken truly seriously, particularly as a currency, it has to shake off this crazy volatility. Of course, were it to do that there would be a lot less interest in it, and one wonders whether at that point the hardcore fans would simply be looking for the next GME stock instead, because they ultimately are in it for the “get rich quick” aspect, not for any serious belief in it.

#2024 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board. But some of the silly shit you all say makes you sound like unhinged religious fanatics.

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#2025 1 year ago

The reason crypto is so volatile is people that are in 'the know' are unflinchingly confident in its viability but simultaneously mostly incapable of articulating that utility to anyone in less than 10 pages

Until that gap has been bridged, expect extreme volatility. There's tons of stuff I don't understand about this. I learn as I go, and I'm investing long term with as a speculative play.

#2026 1 year ago

I notice DOGE remains quite stable compared to others.

#2027 1 year ago

Etherium and Cardano edging back towards recent lows again.

#2028 1 year ago

All seems to edge back to the "latest" dip which would make the dip no dip any longer !?!

#2029 1 year ago

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These days aren’t quite as fun as others have been, but I’ll continue to stake and hold.

#2030 1 year ago

I’m officially now down more than 50%. It also appears as though the most recent bull run gains have been completely wiped out. Most of my alts that were very profitable 2 weeks ago are now in the red.

I’m no financial expert, but I’m pretty sure this is a crash and not a correction. Easy come, easy go.

#2031 1 year ago

My ETH is now lower than what I paid when I bought it in Feb. Don’t know why alts are getting so crushed, even compared to BTC. Most seem to be 20%+ percentage loss in the last 24 hours.

The money I put into this I had written off in my head, but still kinda sucks to see a few thousand just evaporate.

#2032 1 year ago

The price is higher than it was 4 months ago, If you want to call that a crash go ahead. We don’t question 50% gains in a week but panic when things correct back to where they were not long ago. It’s Sunday morning I have to assume a lot of today’s action is small investors panic selling with their coffee. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see how the price doesn’t go up again after all the institutional support from this year. I mean, we are lower than before the Tesla buy which just makes no sense to me. 100k by Xmas.

#2033 1 year ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

The price is higher than it was 4 months ago, If you want to call that a crash go ahead. We don’t question 50% gains in a week but panic when things correct back to where they were not long ago. It’s Sunday morning I have to assume a lot of today’s action is small investors panic selling with their coffee. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see how the price doesn’t go up again after all the institutional support from this year. I mean, we are lower than before the Tesla buy which just makes no sense to me. 100k by Xmas.

That would be fine if it weren’t for the fact that these “50% gains” are due to new money coming in with similar expectations.

The fact that ETH, ADA, etc are getting crushed, despite their apparent utility, tells me that for the last 4 months the value has just gone up due to retail investor FOMO money, not any substantial institutional interest (as these wouldn’t panic sell)

#2034 1 year ago

Maybe because Tesla did not have “ diamond hands” as Elon stated , and ditched them just before announcing no more btc transactions?

Surely such a big business sets a stop loss in place ?

#2035 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I’m officially now down more than 50%. It also appears as though the most recent bull run gains have been completely wiped out. Most of my alts that were very profitable 2 weeks ago are now in the red.
I’m no financial expert, but I’m pretty sure this is a crash and not a correction. Easy come, easy go.

There wouldn't be any such thing as a correction in this at its current state. For it to be a correction it would have to be a catalyst that means it isn't worth as much as it currently is. That is not how crypto currency works. This is ppl getting the f out just like when it goes up it means people are getting the f in.

#2036 1 year ago

This is where true believers and FOMO'ers are separated.

#2037 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

My ETH is now lower than what I paid when I bought it in Feb. Don’t know why alts are getting so crushed, even compared to BTC. Most seem to be 20%+ percentage loss in the last 24 hours.
The money I put into this I had written off in my head, but still kinda sucks to see a few thousand just evaporate.

The Bitcoin dominance went too far down. It was due for a correction. The alts depend on btc.

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/CRYPTOCAP-BTC.D/

#2038 1 year ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Maybe because Tesla did not have “ diamond hands” as Elon stated , and ditched them just before announcing no more btc transactions?
Surely such a big business sets a stop loss in place ?

I think there were just WAY too many people using leverage... Way too many. They are getting liquidated as the price falls... Which triggers more liquidations. This will bounce back. But where is the bottom? I have no idea. I do know I'm going to try and grab as much as I can.

#2039 1 year ago

Any of you guys buying right now or waiting for the dust to settle to see what happens? I grabbed some stuff a couple days ago. I wish I would have waited because those trades are down about 35-40%.

I don't know if this is the bottom or not. Even though I closed some of my LINK position, $18.00 looks like a nice re-entry point.

#2040 1 year ago

Please stop saying 'correction'. There is no 'right amount' or 'fair price' in what it should be. That is a false narrative meant to make people think this is supposed to happen. It isn't supposed to happen. lol. Corrections are for companies with profit margins and expenses.

#2041 1 year ago

I dont see the alts “gains” lost at all. Everything is pegged to bTC, but what has happened is that the peg has shifted. 2k eth is now pegged to 37k BTC, if you recall a few weeks/months ago BTC was in the 60s with eth at 2k. My point is that if we see a Btc bounce to 50k eth Will now be at 3-4K. Same for a lot of alts.

#2042 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Please stop saying 'correction'. There is no 'right amount' or 'fair price' in what it should be. That is a false narrative meant to make people think this is supposed to happen. It isn't supposed to happen. lol. Corrections are for companies with profit margins and expenses.

Temporary reduction?

#2043 1 year ago
Quoted from pninja005:

I notice DOGE remains quite stable compared to others.

LMAO

#2044 1 year ago

I was trying not to give that comment any attention...but yeah, down 43% in the last 7 days.

#2045 1 year ago

When people start talking earnestly about a literal joke coin being an investment you know we’re through the looking glass.

#2046 1 year ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I dont see the alts “gains” lost at all. Everything is pegged to bTC, but what has happened is that the peg has shifted. 2k eth is now pegged to 37k BTC, if you recall a few weeks/months ago BTC was in the 60s with eth at 2k. My point is that if we see a Btc bounce to 50k eth Will now be at 3-4K. Same for a lot of alts.

Everything being pegged to BTC should worry people. I don’t disagree with you, because whenever BTC nosedives the other cryptos pretty much follow it down, with the graphs looking eerily similar.

But, we’re led to believe that blockchain is the future, smart contracts are going to solve hitherto unforeseen problems, DeFi is inevitable, etc. Unfortunately all of the things that we’re led to believe decouple these coins from BTC count for naught when BTC gets knocked.

I don’t know what this means in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn’t seem healthy that apparently revolutionary coins that are not stores of value, and have no obvious reason to be pegged to BTC, in fact are.

#2047 1 year ago

I bought a bit more this morning, and have now transferred it all off the exchange to the blockchain/ledger. I hit my goal mark, so now I’m going to give it a break and just watch and stake. Happy deal hunting to those of you still buying!

#2048 1 year ago

Wow, ETH....is at a buy level and my deposit hasn't cleared yet.

#2049 1 year ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Wow, ETH....is at a buy level and my deposit hasn't cleared yet.

I think you're going to have a chance at it still. I think it's going to bounce off the low from a few days ago but probably not to as high as it did before (lower highs) and then on the 3rd retest probably break through it. When it bounces the second time it's getting fresh buyers who didn't get the first bounce, but by the 3rd bounce there's usually buying exhaustion.

#2050 1 year ago

Also, for those of you on coinbase, why is Tether's volume $137.3 billion when there's only $59.4 billion in existance? By comparison, Bitcoin's volume is only $64 billion. Seems a little off, kind of like that article I posted above said.

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