(Topic ID: 287467)

Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, and Decentralized Finance (DeFi)

By Isochronic_Frost

1 year ago


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#1951 1 year ago

I bought $800 more of ETH and $200 more of ADA a couple hours off today's dip's bottom. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next couple days.

#1952 1 year ago

This isn't necessarily directed at the OP so anyone can answer. What can you tell me about the stability of an economy using only Bitcoin (order whatever coin), decentralized finance?

#1953 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

This isn't necessarily directed at the OP so anyone can answer. What can you tell me about the stability of an economy using only Bitcoin (order whatever coin), decentralized finance?

To fully answer your question read, The Bitcoin Standard.

Bottom line, any country that adopted Bitcoin as their reserve asset and base currency would be far more stable...and frankly, more fair.

Inflation is a disaster...always. The average lifespan of a government issued currency is 40 years. The US dollar has been going for a hundred. But make no mistake that it's days are numbered.

Making that switch would likely not be smooth.

#1954 1 year ago

Are you saying we wouldn't experience inflation? If that is what you are saying, by what mean are you saying this possible? I will be honest there is no way I have time to read The Bitcoin Standard, so I am basically looking for the cliff notes of how people would think this would go.

#1955 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Are you saying we wouldn't experience inflation? If that is what you are saying, by what mean are you saying this possible? I will be honest there is no way I have time to read The Bitcoin Standard, so I am basically looking for the cliff notes of how people would think this would go.

For BTC for example (and some other coins) there is a finite number. Inflation is mostly due to making more money out of thin air making your coin worth less overall. One big hope behind crypto is that it is finite. However, in the end, it will still be the rich with the most of it, so not much will change.

#1956 1 year ago

In what way is it finite if we can divide it up infinitely?

#1957 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

In what way is it finite if we can divide it up infinitely?

I'll let one of the others that understand all that more answer that. My understanding is that isn't the case, but I could be wrong.

#1958 1 year ago

It could be infinitely divisible but it would require another layer that isn’t there currently because it’s not really needed at this time.

Currently
1 btc = 100,000,000 satoshi’s
1 sat = $0.00052 (at this time)

Honestly....if you don’t have time to read a book this might not be for you. Maybe start with the white paper. It’s only 20 some pages.

Saylor says it took him 40 hours to understand Bitcoin, and the dude is an MIT engineer. Took me a lot longer to know a lot less.

-2
#1959 1 year ago

I have no interest in supporting Bitcoin, I am just asking peoples opinions on economic stability. My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests. I will be honest though, if a person can't sum up in a few sentences how they think Bitcoin would be a stable currency that doesn't paint a very good picture. Instead I am instructed to read a book. Maybe some others will chime in with their opinion I am curios to hear how people think things would go.

So if I read you correctly, you are saying no one buys anything with less than 1 bitcoin? Doesn't 1 bitcoin already have a very high value? Hypothetically speaking, I could roll down to the mall and buy a shirt with .000005 of a bitcoin no? (that is obviously a made up figure).

#1960 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

I have no interest in supporting Bitcoin, I am just asking peoples opinions on economic stability. My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests.

You are on the wrong thread then.

#1961 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Hypothetically speaking, I could roll down to the mall and buy a shirt with .000005 of a bitcoin no? (that is obviously a made up figure).

Right. It’s theoretically infinitely divisible, just like any other currency. But you don’t get inflation by making change for a dollar, you get inflation by printing more dollars (which governments do to fund spending and pay their debts). Of course more Bitcoin are being “printed” (mined) every day, but as I understand it the difficulty and expense of mining increases over time by design, limiting the pace at which Bitcoin inflation can realistically occur.

Quoted from pinstyle:

My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests.

May not have been your intent but you’re coming off a little dickish here. I’m sure you make good use of your time, but you’re spending at least some of it posting about Bitcoin on a pinball website, so ...

#1962 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

I have no interest in supporting Bitcoin, I am just asking peoples opinions on economic stability. My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests. I will be honest though, if a person can't sum up in a few sentences how they think Bitcoin would be a stable currency that doesn't paint a very good picture. Instead I am instructed to read a book. Maybe some others will chime in with their opinion I am curios to hear how people think things would go.
So if I read you correctly, you are saying no one buys anything with less than 1 bitcoin? Doesn't 1 bitcoin already have a very high value? Hypothetically speaking, I could roll down to the mall and buy a shirt with .000005 of a bitcoin no? (that is obviously a made up figure).

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

#1963 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

I have no interest in supporting Bitcoin, I am just asking peoples opinions on economic stability. My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests. I will be honest though, if a person can't sum up in a few sentences how they think Bitcoin would be a stable currency that doesn't paint a very good picture. Instead I am instructed to read a book. Maybe some others will chime in with their opinion I am curios to hear how people think things would go.
So if I read you correctly, you are saying no one buys anything with less than 1 bitcoin? Doesn't 1 bitcoin already have a very high value? Hypothetically speaking, I could roll down to the mall and buy a shirt with .000005 of a bitcoin no? (that is obviously a made up figure).

I think the example you are looking for is when you go to another country and you want to cash in USD to the local currency. You pay a fee and they you get the current conversion rate. The same would apply when you buy something retail with crypto (more or less). Some places have decided this is fine (even though it’s value goes up and down) because in due time the it’s trending upward and they have more of a chance of it being more valuable than not. This week might not be a good week to accept it though

-1
#1964 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

I have no interest in supporting Bitcoin, I am just asking peoples opinions on economic stability. My time is spent with my family, not chasing money. Don't take that as anything against you, we all have different interests. I will be honest though, if a person can't sum up in a few sentences how they think Bitcoin would be a stable currency that doesn't paint a very good picture. Instead I am instructed to read a book. Maybe some others will chime in with their opinion I am curios to hear how people think things would go.
So if I read you correctly, you are saying no one buys anything with less than 1 bitcoin? Doesn't 1 bitcoin already have a very high value? Hypothetically speaking, I could roll down to the mall and buy a shirt with .000005 of a bitcoin no? (that is obviously a made up figure).

Don't let anyone kid you, no one knows how this is going to play out. They are all in it as speculation plain and simple. The majority of people in on it that hype it up are just that, hype. The more people who dump money into it the higher it goes.

-1
#1965 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Don't let anyone kid you, no one knows how this is going to play out. They are all in it as speculation plain and simple. The majority of people in on it that hype it up are just that, hype. The more people who dump money into it the higher it goes.

Yea I can see that....so far no answers to my questions. The last time I checked no one is buying anything with a 10th of a penny. So I think one of my questions is just not understood by those answering.

I don’t see anything wrong with trading bitcoin for profit. I dabbled in trading years ago. It becomes concerning when people push bitcoin to be used as a standard and cannot see economic stability or tell me to go read a book. I have kids that will be living in the world you are trying to create.

#1966 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Don't let anyone kid you, no one knows how this is going to play out. They are all in it as speculation plain and simple.

Speaking only for myself, I’m in it strictly for speculation. I bought in for $150 in Bitcoin and Ethereum this week on a lark. I’ll let it sit for a year or two and see what happens.

#1967 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

I will be honest though, if a person can't sum up in a few sentences how they think Bitcoin would be a stable currency that doesn't paint a very good picture.

I’m going to make this pretty easy. Bitcoin, as of right now, makes an absolutely horrible currency. Anyone that tells you it is a currency is an idiot and not to be trusted.

Transaction fees are off the chain and it can take 60 minutes to get 7-8 confirmations. You’d literally pay $13 for a $3 Latte at Starbucks. You would stand there so long that your coffee would be cold by the time the transaction settled.

With that said, I own BTC.

It’s just too late and I’ve been drinking for awhile. If not, I’d expand on my statement.

#1968 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I’m going to make this pretty easy. Bitcoin, as of right now, makes an absolutely horrible currency. Anyone that tells you it is a currency is an idiot and not to be trusted.
Transaction fees are off the chain and it can take 60 minutes to get 7-8 confirmations. You’d literally pay $13 for a $3 Latte at Starbucks. You would stand there so long that your coffee would be cold by the time the transaction settled.
With that said, I own BTC.
It’s just too late and I’ve been drinking for awhile. If not, I’d expand on my statement.

Well to be totally fair..Bitcoin is literally not a currency. It's an asset....like art or property or a stock. It's design makes it a perfect reserve asset. Like gold, but better in every way that matters when considering a Store of Value.

It's not for buying coffee, it's for storing your money for the future.

That being said...2nd layer protocols will make it perfectly useful as a future currency. Like the lighting network. Super fast, and super cheap...but it still needs development.

Quoted from fosaisu:

Right. It’s theoretically infinitely divisible, just like any other currency. But you don’t get inflation by making change for a dollar, you get inflation by printing more dollars (which governments do to fund spending and pay their debts). Of course more Bitcoin are being “printed” (mined) every day, but as I understand it the difficulty and expense of mining increases over time by design, limiting the pace at which Bitcoin inflation can realistically occur.

BTC is not infinitely divisible. There can only be 21 million of them ever...and that's it.

Those 21 million are divisible by 100 million. Those are referred to as Satoshi's.

It's possible to further divide Satoshi's on secondary layers like the lighting network...But, all second layer transactions must eventually be reconsiled on the primary blockchain... bringing you back to the original limit.

#1969 1 year ago

So is anyone buying right now? I can't see the bottom going much lower. Thinking about scooping up more where the bargains are, but there's alot of red out there.

#1970 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

So is anyone buying right now?

Yes

#1972 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Right. It’s theoretically infinitely divisible, just like any other currency. But you don’t get inflation by making change for a dollar, you get inflation by printing more dollars (which governments do to fund spending and pay their debts). Of course more Bitcoin are being “printed” (mined) every day, but as I understand it the difficulty and expense of mining increases over time by design, limiting the pace at which Bitcoin inflation can realistically occur.

May not have been your intent but you’re coming off a little dickish here. I’m sure you make good use of your time, but you’re spending at least some of it posting about Bitcoin on a pinball website, so ...

You're correct again! Inflation in a particular currency can also come from the central bank action by buying up commercial paper and other financial instruments, thus increasing the supply of funds in the market for more lending and speculation. DeFi cannot fully eliminate that but it can dampen their hand in the overall monetary policy.

PS: I'm a Crypto newbie but I have a pretty good grasp of the stock market and finance. Crypto is like the splitting of the atom, there is no going back, the genie is out of the bottle. It will only grow more popular, however govt actions can and will control that growth...ie: China's recent action and the US's new policy about reporting. If anything these actions indicate that even govt are now taking Crypto seriously, and inadvertently legitimizing it by trying to control it.

#1973 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Bitcoin is an asset, like art or property or a stock. It's design makes it a perfect reserve asset. Like gold, but better in every way that matters when considering a Store of Value.

So Bitcoin is a valuable asset . . . that you cannot actually see or touch.
Sounds just like the Emperor's new clothes.

#1974 1 year ago

Step 1. Follow his

Quoted from littlecammi:

So Bitcoin is a valuable asset . . . that you cannot actually see or touch.
Sounds just like the Emperor's new clothes.

...and computers are a tool that can't create anything you can feel or touch.

#1975 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

This isn't necessarily directed at the OP so anyone can answer. What can you tell me about the stability of an economy using only Bitcoin (order whatever coin), decentralized finance?

Blockchain technology has trust built in through transparency. No one can counterfeit a Bitcoin. No one can spend a coin twice. Every transaction is recorded into a ledger, every line in the ledger is locked to the line before and after making it incredibly difficult to hack, and the information is stored in parallel around the world. So if someone tries to hack the ledger it is immediately apparent.

It’s not a good choice for a countries currency, but worse has been used before. Venezuelas currency was less stable then in game World of Warcraft gold, so i think it was being used for a short while.

#1976 1 year ago

Does anyone know what rewards percentage you get from staking ADA on Kraken? It just says 4-6%. I haven't received the first payout yet, so I can't back calculate. Why the range?

My DOT is listed as 12% so the range is just a little weird.

#1977 1 year ago
Quoted from littlecammi:So Bitcoin is a valuable asset . . . that you cannot actually see or touch.
Sounds just like the Emperor's new clothes.

Hey.. welcome to 2010, when a lot people where actually still baffled by the concept of totally digital money. Shit, most US dollars have been digital for a long time now.

#1978 1 year ago
Quoted from littlecammi:

So Bitcoin is a valuable asset . . . that you cannot actually see or touch.
Sounds just like the Emperor's new clothes.

How often do you actually touch your paycheck, your money in your checking account, your IRA, your pension, your insurance, or your stock investments? Do you have to touch or see something for it to exist or have value? Do you believe in God? Do you live in the modern world?

#1979 1 year ago

"
we are at 5
circled imo
btc probably does a 5x from here if this is correct
if not the bear market begins

So btc goes to 200-300k or we run back up to 55k dump and the bull market is over
It can only be one of those imo
"

Read this in discord but honestly don't know what they refer to.

#1980 1 year ago

I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?

The bet would be made in BTC.

I'll bet we still hit at least 100k...this year.

Bet size 0.1 BTC. (Just for total clarity .1 BTC would be = to $10,000 usd if it is at 100k).

Actual bet payout would be made on January 1st 2022.

That means if the price on that date is 200k, the payout would be = to 20k. If the price is 55k then the payout (assuming Bitcoin hit 100k earlier in the year) would be = to 5.5k.

If it never hits 100k you win, and I pay you 0.1 BTC on January 1st.

#1981 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?

No thanks, think you are right

#1982 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?
The bet would be made in BTC.
I'll bet we still hit at least 100k...this year.
Bet size 0.1 BTC. (Just for total clarity .1 BTC would be = to $10,000 usd if it is at 100k).
Actual bet payout would be made on January 1st 2022.
That means if the price on that date is 200k, the payout would be = to 20k. If the price is 55k then the payout (assuming Bitcoin hit 100k earlier in the year) would be = to 5.5k.
If it never hits 100k you win, and I pay you 0.1 BTC on January 1st.

That's some really shitty risk/reward for anyone that takes that bet.

#1983 1 year ago

I’ll prob watch Ada today and add another $200 worth at some point.

#1984 1 year ago
Quoted from Deaconblooze:

That's some really shitty risk/reward for anyone that takes that bet.

I lost $20 once to Astropin on a football game, so I’m out!

#1985 1 year ago
Quoted from Deaconblooze:

That's some really shitty risk/reward for anyone that takes that bet.

Not if you believe the bull run is over.

#1986 1 year ago

I think something will happen to make it go back up to the 50's maybe even 60's, but I don't see it hitting 100k this year unless China suddenly becomes democratic. Anyone can throw any number out to 'where it is going to go' and it is meaningless. It's all about how many suckers you can get to put more money into it before some big fish pulls all theirs out and it sinks again.

I nibble on it here and there, but I won't pretend it is anything but what it is, straight up gambling based on peoples FOMO.

#1987 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?
The bet would be made in BTC.
I'll bet we still hit at least 100k...this year.
Bet size 0.1 BTC. (Just for total clarity .1 BTC would be = to $10,000 usd if it is at 100k).
Actual bet payout would be made on January 1st 2022.
That means if the price on that date is 200k, the payout would be = to 20k. If the price is 55k then the payout (assuming Bitcoin hit 100k earlier in the year) would be = to 5.5k.
If it never hits 100k you win, and I pay you 0.1 BTC on January 1st.

You have no clue how tempting it is to accept your offer. My only problem is that I would be betting against my portfolio and actually rooting for myself to lose money. Believe me, I want to be wrong, but with all the regulatory talk, the chatter about environmental concerns and just the normal FUD, I'm thinking the bull market hit a wall. People are eying the exits.

What would be even cooler is if we knew how to write a smart contract that would self execute using the BTC price at 0:00UTC on 1/1/2022 from a Chainlink oracle.

Now that would be a bad ass bet!

#1988 1 year ago

Problem is you aren't just betting against Astropin, you are also hoping that Elon's bipolar tweets align with your bet.

#1989 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

What would be even cooler is if we knew how to write a smart contract that would self execute using the BTC price at 0:00UTC on 1/1/2022 from a Chainlink oracle.
Now that would be a bad ass bet!

I think that might actually be possible. I thought I heard about someone making a bet like that. Or maybe they were just using a trusted 3rd party to hold the BTC.

Edit. A good way to hedge your bet against me would be to buy some BTC while it's cheap. Say 0.4. If you lost the bet, you still made money. If you win the bet, you probably broke even at worst.

#1990 1 year ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Believe me, I want to be wrong, but with all the regulatory talk, the chatter about environmental concerns and just the normal FUD, I'm thinking the bull market hit a wall.

Forgive the pun, but I believe there is still a bit of gas in this engine.

This too shall pass!

#1991 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Yea I can see that....so far no answers to my questions. The last time I checked no one is buying anything with a 10th of a penny. So I think one of my questions is just not understood by those answering.
I don’t see anything wrong with trading bitcoin for profit. I dabbled in trading years ago. It becomes concerning when people push bitcoin to be used as a standard and cannot see economic stability or tell me to go read a book. I have kids that will be living in the world you are trying to create.

Good news is that in spite of whatever you THINK you can do.....the reality is that nothing you do or say is going to change a single thing in that regard, ever. If you don't want your kids to be crushed by crypto, find the time, do some research, and start educating them. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing hot air at strangers over the internet that don't give two craps about the future of anyone's kids. And even if they did, greed is stronger. Hence, you get all these artists (that typically would be .....liberal.....save the trees and all that, or at least a LITTLE eco-minded..) pushing things like NFTs, which is probably one of the worst wastes of electricity that's ever been invented.

Quoted from Deaconblooze:

That's some really shitty risk/reward for anyone that takes that bet.

The odds in a casino are never in your favor.

#1992 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?
The bet would be made in BTC.
I'll bet we still hit at least 100k...this year.
Bet size 0.1 BTC. (Just for total clarity .1 BTC would be = to $10,000 usd if it is at 100k).
Actual bet payout would be made on January 1st 2022.
That means if the price on that date is 200k, the payout would be = to 20k. If the price is 55k then the payout (assuming Bitcoin hit 100k earlier in the year) would be = to 5.5k.
If it never hits 100k you win, and I pay you 0.1 BTC on January 1st.

DABEA51C-DACD-48AB-BF96-8F6472F1F87B (resized).jpeg
#1993 1 year ago

According the RSI, bitcoin has probably bottomed for now (unless the RSI remains super depressed for multiple weeks, which is possible). Technicals point to it probably rising or staying steady at least, barring some other really bad news or tweet.

#1994 1 year ago
Quoted from pninja005:"

btc probably does a 5x from here if this is correct
if not the bear market begins
So btc goes to 200-300k or we run back up to 55k dump and the bull market is over
"
Read this in discord but honestly don't know what they refer to.

Ok wow discord it's either going to go up or down do you have any other gems you can enlighten us with?

#1995 1 year ago

I saw this article for the first time today:

https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3

I found it pretty interesting since there have been possible warnings about Tether going around.

#1996 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

I'm willing to bet the bull market is not over...any takers?
The bet would be made in BTC.
I'll bet we still hit at least 100k...this year.
Bet size 0.1 BTC. (Just for total clarity .1 BTC would be = to $10,000 usd if it is at 100k).
Actual bet payout would be made on January 1st 2022.
That means if the price on that date is 200k, the payout would be = to 20k. If the price is 55k then the payout (assuming Bitcoin hit 100k earlier in the year) would be = to 5.5k.
If it never hits 100k you win, and I pay you 0.1 BTC on January 1st.

That is a sucker bet based upon the payout. Your payout has no upper limit but the other side has limited upside and payout would be in a depreciating asset if they win. Now, if you want to throw a few grand USD down straight up as to if on Dec 31, 2021 BTC is over 100k at that point in time now that could be an interesting conversation…

#1997 1 year ago
Quoted from Frax:

Good news is that in spite of whatever you THINK you can do.....the reality is that nothing you do or say is going to change a single thing in that regard, ever. If you don't want your kids to be crushed by crypto, find the time, do some research, and start educating them. Otherwise, all you're doing is blowing hot air at strangers over the internet that don't give two craps about the future of anyone's kids. And even if they did, greed is stronger. Hence, you get all these artists (that typically would be .....liberal.....save the trees and all that, or at least a LITTLE eco-minded..) pushing things like NFTs, which is probably one of the worst wastes of electricity that's ever been invented.

The odds in a casino are never in your favor.

You are absolutely correct and I understand completely where I stand. It is unfortunate some people have such little regard for others. It does seem at times that we are in a “I got mine, not my problem” era. The disrespect towards elders etc. What I am wondering is where did this come from, how did they learn to be this way? I already knew what the answer to my original question was, I wanted someone to answer it to try and make people think. Though I do realize where I am and my audience. All I can say is what a shitty way to go through life to put money at such a high priority, it is very shallow existence.

#1998 1 year ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

You are absolutely correct and I understand completely where I stand. It is unfortunate some people have such little regard for others. It does seem at times that we are in a “I got mine, not my problem” era. The disrespect towards elders etc. What I am wondering is where did this come from, how did they learn to be this way? I already knew what the answer to my original question was, I wanted someone to answer it to try and make people think. Though I do realize where I am and my audience. All I can say is what a shitty way to go through life to put money at such a high priority, it is very shallow existence.

You never said what your answer is.

In my opinion (and also of some of the best Austrian economists), you need "Hard Money" to have a long term stable economy. Bitcoin is the hardest money the world has ever seen. A distant second is gold. Now, that being said gold is a very well established asset with a long history. Bitcoin is still in an emerging market... hence the volatility. Give it time.

#1999 1 year ago
Quoted from DBLM:

That is a sucker bet based upon the payout. Your payout has no upper limit but the other side has limited upside and payout would be in a depreciating asset if they win. Now, if you want to throw a few grand USD down straight up as to if on Dec 31, 2021 BTC is over 100k at that point in time now that could be an interesting conversation…

Maybe you missed this:

Edit. A good way to hedge your bet against me would be to buy some BTC while it's cheap. Say 0.4. If you lost the bet, you still made money. If you win the bet, you probably broke even at worst. If it goes up but doesn't break 100k you would win on both ends.

#2000 1 year ago

It could be a means of currency. Anything we attach value to can be. I think where I start to question things is when I think about market stability. Maybe I am reading people wrong but it seems like people want to remove financial control away from one central point. So we could have any number of accepted currencies. Imagine what that would mean. You might wake up one morning and say, “Honey...,did you move our money to dogecoin today? Bitcoing just took a dump...Sorry I forgot..., Shit, welp I better put in for that overtime otherwise we are not going to be able to pay our mortgage.” It doesnt matter what we use as a means of payment but what we all need is stability. Again maybe I have everyones intensions all wrong but this is the vibe I get.

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