(Topic ID: 287467)

Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, and Decentralized Finance (DeFi)

By Isochronic_Frost

3 years ago


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There are 8,244 posts in this topic. You are on page 139 of 165.
#6901 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

To your point, I am talking about volatility of a currency, not a speculative play. I realize there is speculation on currency, but the general movement is much smaller over a much longer period of time, that is the stability I am referring to. If the dollar did what BTC/crypto in general did in the same amount of time, the country would fall into disarray. Things may look bad now, but nothing compared to that.
As I said, the average person doesn't own stock. The amount of people who need to put money into a stock is much smaller than what will be required to get BTC where everyone says it is going and those that do hopefully know what they are getting into (which usually isn't the case). Again, if you want to look at it as strictly speculative, then sure, compare it to stocks. I think stocks are the better option for a number of reasons.
Don't misunderstand, I am not anti crypto, I own some crypto, because as we all know, who knows what is going to happen and I am not claiming to know. I just believe it is going to be a long long road before it's anything more than a speculative play.

Average (American) person does own stock

B2EC4137-F127-41CD-B742-6E3E41324447 (resized).pngB2EC4137-F127-41CD-B742-6E3E41324447 (resized).png
#6902 1 year ago

That is thanks to the 401k push a number of years ago by eliminating other avenues of revenue. Guess we better get BTC in all 401k's stat. Even after that, it's still only slightly more than half.

EDIT: reworded to avoid the taboo.

#6903 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Don't misunderstand, I am not anti crypto, I own some crypto, because as we all know, who knows what is going to happen and I am not claiming to know. I just believe it is going to be a long long road before it's anything more than a speculative play.

Right now the barrier to bitcoin entry is just too high, anytime I explain what needs to be done to buy bitcoin peoples eyes glass over and/or they just don't trust all these new financial entities. Honestly after what happened with Celcius I kinda don't blame them. BTC needs to become as easy to buy as any other stock on peoples existing financial websites that they use, until that happens it will be extremely volatile.

#6904 1 year ago

I see this in my OpenSea account:

Anybody knows what this is?

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#6905 1 year ago

It’s junk… I just hide them. They’re safe to hide.

#6907 1 year ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Right now the barrier to bitcoin entry is just too high, anytime I explain what needs to be done to buy bitcoin peoples eyes glass over and/or they just don't trust all these new financial entities. Honestly after what happened with Celcius I kinda don't blame them. BTC needs to become as easy to buy as any other stock on peoples existing financial websites that they use, until that happens it will be extremely volatile.

You can buy BTC through Paypal. That has to be the easiest way. Not saying its the best, but way less complicated.

#6908 1 year ago

Tomer on Twitter Spaces - "Saying you like blockchain but not Bitcoin is the equivalent of saying you don't like electricity, but you do like the underlying copper wire".

#6909 1 year ago

I fucken love copper wire yo

#6910 1 year ago
Quoted from cait001:

I fucken love copper wire yo

Sure...not saying electricity is it's only use case....just it's best.

#6911 1 year ago

Wonder if he'd think the same if he realized copper wire can be used for things other than electricity. Not all of them good.

Edit: you beat me to it.

#6912 1 year ago

I think copper wire is a much better investment than Crypto these days.

#6913 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think copper wire is a much better investment than Crypto these days.

Copper is actual down significantly this year and imo it doesn’t have the upside potential.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper

#6914 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Copper is actual down significantly this year and imo it doesn’t have the upside potential.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper

Copper is down 16 percent this year, while, say, Bitcoin is down 58 percent.

And the upside is, hey, no matter what happens I can still use my copper to conduct electricity. Not sure what I can do with Bitcoin when it goes down to zero.

#6915 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Copper is down 16 percent this year, while, say, Bitcoin is down 58 percent.
And the upside is, hey, no matter what happens I can still use my copper to conduct electricity. Not sure what I can do with Bitcoin when it goes down to zero.

You can spend Bitcoin anywhere Visa accepted

#6916 1 year ago

but can you spend bitcoin without copper?

#6917 1 year ago

Can you spend Bitcoin when it's worth zero dollars?

Face it people, copper is where it's at.

Who's with me! To the moon?

#6918 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Copper is down 16 percent this year, while, say, Bitcoin is down 58 percent.
And the upside is, hey, no matter what happens I can still use my copper to conduct electricity. Not sure what I can do with Bitcoin when it goes down to zero.

I'll definitely take that bet.

#6919 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can you spend Bitcoin when it's worth zero dollars?
Face it people, copper is where it's at.
Who's with me! To the moon?

Only way it’s going to zero is if the code becomes faulty or hacked. Just a reminder Bitcoin was at 4800 in 2020. That being said blockchain and NFT technology will definitely be around in the future. I mean i bet over 1/3 of Pinside people use it directly and don’t even realize it.

#6920 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can you spend Bitcoin when it's worth zero dollars?
Face it people, copper is where it's at.
Who's with me! To the moon?

Isn't that why we save jars full of pennies?

#6921 1 year ago

Penny is mostly zinc. Keep old coils in the jar if you want to hoard copper.

#6922 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can you spend Bitcoin when it's worth zero dollars?
Face it people, copper is where it's at.
Who's with me! To the moon?

Copper doesn’t scale well.

At $3.75 a pound. $100k is 26,666 pounds of copper. Good luck with that.

#6923 1 year ago

Screenshot_20220630-142555_Twitter (resized).jpgScreenshot_20220630-142555_Twitter (resized).jpg

#6924 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

Penny is mostly zinc. Keep old coils in the jar if you want to hoard copper.

C1607BAC-0955-423F-AB6B-A88034A2290F (resized).jpegC1607BAC-0955-423F-AB6B-A88034A2290F (resized).jpeg
#6925 1 year ago
Quoted from EJS:[quoted image]

Drool...so much copper.

100 percent of Pinsiders use copper!

#6926 1 year ago

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/pentagon-finds-concerning-vulnerabilities-on-blockchain/

Old article (6/28), not sure if mentioned here yet...

"Trail of Bits says that it only takes four entities to disrupt Bitcoin and only two to disrupt Ethereum. Additionally, 60% of all Bitcoin traffic moves through just three ISPs. Outdated and unencrypted software and blockchain protocols were also identified by the organization."

That doesn't sound very decentralized.

#6927 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Can you spend Bitcoin when it's worth zero dollars?
Face it people, copper is where it's at.
Who's with me! To the moon?

Meth heads are with you, they've been stripping everything of copper for years!

#6928 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/pentagon-finds-concerning-vulnerabilities-on-blockchain/
Old article (6/28), not sure if mentioned here yet...
"Trail of Bits says that it only takes four entities to disrupt Bitcoin and only two to disrupt Ethereum. Additionally, 60% of all Bitcoin traffic moves through just three ISPs. Outdated and unencrypted software and blockchain protocols were also identified by the organization."
That doesn't sound very decentralized.

https://assets-global.website-files.com/5fd11235b3950c2c1a3b6df4/62af6c641a672b3329b9a480_Unintended_Centralities_in_Distributed_Ledgers.pdf

Is the actual report. Some of that summary is a bit misleading.

#6929 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Drool...so much copper.
100 percent of Pinsiders use copper!

I love it when we veer back into pinball here

Maybe its a coincidence but earlier i said that $20k btc and 1k Eth are significant psychological milestones and that many people would jump in then. It does appear thay the prixes are buoyed around there, but yeah still lots of shoes to potentially drop

#6930 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/pentagon-finds-concerning-vulnerabilities-on-blockchain/
Old article (6/28), not sure if mentioned here yet...
"Trail of Bits says that it only takes four entities to disrupt Bitcoin and only two to disrupt Ethereum. Additionally, 60% of all Bitcoin traffic moves through just three ISPs. Outdated and unencrypted software and blockchain protocols were also identified by the organization."
That doesn't sound very decentralized.

I already posted this. Here is a complete teardown of that report...point by point:

https://www.swanbitcoin.com/fact-check-darpa-funded-report-on-blockchain-centralization/

#6931 1 year ago

For those that DCA, do you DCA over time or value?

I currently put e.g. BTC triggers at 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, ... but wonder if it's not better to just set recurring buy x every week or other timeframe.

#6932 1 year ago
Quoted from EJS:

I’m not buying anything. I strictly mine

Mining costs $$ too

#6933 1 year ago

I will say I regret only half ass trying to mine back when all this started. I set it up, couldn't figure out wtf it was doing or if it was working right, and was travelling a lot so didn't have time to really mess with it. The only real comfort is I know I woulda sold anything I had when it hit $100 and if not then, $1000 lol. There is no way I would have kept holding to where we are now - or still mining even 5 years ago.

Then when Coinbase/Binance were starting up I looked into that, but it was too shady of a process at that time. Was not comfortable at all with giving them all my info so I didn't do that either.

Oh wells...

-1
#6934 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/pentagon-finds-concerning-vulnerabilities-on-blockchain/
Old article (6/28), not sure if mentioned here yet...
"Trail of Bits says that it only takes four entities to disrupt Bitcoin and only two to disrupt Ethereum. Additionally, 60% of all Bitcoin traffic moves through just three ISPs. Outdated and unencrypted software and blockchain protocols were also identified by the organization."
That doesn't sound very decentralized.

There is an old addage that says if you took all the money in the world and redistributed it equally among all people, that over a relatively short period of time that distribution would wind up where it was before the redistribution, if not accumulated by the exact same people, it would still be largely consolidated to the a top few %. Bitcoin is similar in many ways.... there are just a handful people and companies that either got in very early, and/or are set up to accumulate BTC on a perpetual basis via large-scale mining or large-scale investing.

In other words, those that aren't set up to accumulate money or BTC are set up to spend whatever they had. Your argument is not one against decentralization or BTC or ETH, you're just calling out the realities of wealth redistribution.

#6935 1 year ago
Quoted from Baiter:

There is an old addage that says if you took all the money in the world and redistributed it equally among all people, that over a relatively short period of time that distribution would wind up where it was before the redistribution, if not accumulated by the exact same people, it would still be largely consolidated to the a top few %. Bitcoin is similar in many ways.... there are just a handful people and companies that either got in very early, and/or are set up to accumulate BTC on a perpetual basis via large-scale mining or large-scale investing.
In other words, those that aren't set up to accumulate money or BTC are set up to spend whatever they had. Your argument is not one against decentralization or BTC or ETH, you're just calling out the realities of wealth redistribution.

and this is why i tend to not have any qualms with the have nots getting freebies over the last 2 years.

#6936 1 year ago
Quoted from Baiter:

There is an old addage that says if you took all the money in the world and redistributed it equally among all people, that over a relatively short period of time that distribution would wind up where it was before the redistribution, if not accumulated by the exact same people, it would still be largely consolidated to the a top few %. Bitcoin is similar in many ways.... there are just a handful people and companies that either got in very early, and/or are set up to accumulate BTC on a perpetual basis via large-scale mining or large-scale investing.
In other words, those that aren't set up to accumulate money or BTC are set up to spend whatever they had. Your argument is not one against decentralization or BTC or ETH, you're just calling out the realities of wealth redistribution.

Yep, there will never be equality in money...nor should there be. We reap what we sow. Now that being said, there are areas where things are totally out of wack. On average CEO's make WAY too much vs their own employees. Shit like that needs some tweaking. Not saying I know how to fix it...but it's obvious it's a problem.

#6937 1 year ago

Screenshot_20220701-143010_Twitter (resized).jpgScreenshot_20220701-143010_Twitter (resized).jpg

#6938 1 year ago

It's funny that there's a Bitcoin meme thing making fun of inflation when it's been the worst performing inflation asset.

Stocks down like 25% from high
Bonds down like 10% to 20%
Bitcoin down like 75% from high
Oil way up
Gold flat
Dollar up against other currencies

It's like making fun of someone for getting a C when you got an F, lol.

#6939 1 year ago
Quoted from taylor34:

It's funny that there's a Bitcoin meme thing making fun of inflation when it's been the worst performing inflation asset.
Stocks down like 25% from high
Bonds down like 10% to 20%
Bitcoin down like 75% from high
Oil way up
Gold flat
Dollar up against other currencies
It's like making fun of someone for getting a C when you got an F, lol.

Zoom out
The code is programmed to do this every 4 years. It’s called halving. We’ve brought it up 100 times in this this thread.

#6940 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Zoom out
The code is programmed to do this every 4 years. It’s called halving. We’ve brought it up 100 times in this this thread.

God forbid anyone have an investment timeframe longer than 6 months.

#6941 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

God forbid anyone have an investment timeframe longer than 6 months.

I’m still very bullish long term but I don’t think we’ve seen the bottom this year yet.

#6942 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I’m still very bullish long term but I don’t think we’ve seen the bottom this year yet.

I agree

Preparing to do some more "tax harvesting"

#6943 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Yep, there will never be equality in money...nor should there be. We reap what we sow. Now that being said, there are areas where things are totally out of wack. On average CEO's make WAY too much vs their own employees. Shit like that needs some tweaking. Not saying I know how to fix it...but it's obvious it's a problem.

I remember reading back in the 90's that the Revenue Per Employee for AT&T (I believe that was after some amount of overhead) was something like $276k, and the average salary was $60k. This was in the early-mid cycle of escalating CEO salaries. I've done consulting gigs where my clients were paying my consulting company 4x what my consulting company was paying me. It perpetually makes me wonder why the person doing 100% of the work is being paid 25% of the revenue. Yes AT&T had a lot more overhead, but that 4x isn't entirely coincidence. 2x rate is also a common overhead taken as a "finder's fee" for service-based consulting as well (very low overhead) so on occasion I could eliminate the middle man and double my salary, doing the same work.

Even after benefits, expenses, re-investing there remains a crap-ton of money sloshing around at company discretion where they could pay employees substantially more, but here's the key: they don't have to. Employees are generally considered a necessary expense, a lion's share of a company's expense, and a company's obligation to investors is to pay the minimum the market will bear, because that improves the bottom line.

CEOs can appear to be brilliant when the reality is they are simply benefiting from cheap money (declining interest rates every year from 1981 to present), and a robust economy also benefiting from lowering interest rates, along with lower relative expenses in suppressed wages, so they "deserve" massive pay increases, right? The BOD and senior executives have the power to distribute money at will, so they do, to themselves. How does one steer a free labor market to swing in favor of those who don't control the purse strings? Nearly impossible outside of the rare situation where a labor group possesses high demand skills in short supply, and eventually that demand gap will get taken care of unless it's a professional skill level that most people won't spent the time on.

Anyway, long way of saying, no actual way to balance out the disparity outside of some form of regulation. See: the early days of the industrial revolution where the legendary exploitation of labor was third only behind feudalism and slavery. I could digress even further but I'll stop because this beyond the TL;DR limit.

#6944 1 year ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I remember reading back in the 90's that the Revenue Per Employee for AT&T (I believe that was after some amount of overhead) was something like $276k, and the average salary was $60k. This was in the early-mid cycle of escalating CEO salaries. I've done consulting gigs where my clients were paying my consulting company 4x what my consulting company was paying me. It perpetually makes me wonder why the person doing 100% of the work is being paid 25% of the revenue. Yes AT&T had a lot more overhead, but that 4x isn't entirely coincidence. 2x rate is also a common overhead taken as a "finder's fee" for service-based consulting as well (very low overhead) so on occasion I could eliminate the middle man and double my salary, doing the same work.
Even after benefits, expenses, re-investing there remains a crap-ton of money sloshing around at company discretion where they could pay employees substantially more, but here's the key: they don't have to. Employees are generally considered a necessary expense, a lion's share of a company's expense, and a company's obligation to investors is to pay the minimum the market will bear, because that improves the bottom line.
CEOs can appear to be brilliant when the reality is they are simply benefiting from cheap money (declining interest rates every year from 1981 to present), and a robust economy also benefiting from lowering interest rates, along with lower relative expenses in suppressed wages, so they "deserve" massive pay increases, right? The BOD and senior executives have the power to distribute money at will, so they do, to themselves. How does one steer a free labor market to swing in favor of those who don't control the purse strings? Nearly impossible outside of the rare situation where a labor group possesses high demand skills in short supply, and eventually that demand gap will get taken care of unless it's a professional skill level that most people won't spent the time on.
Anyway, long way of saying, no actual way to balance out the disparity outside of some form of regulation. See: the early days of the industrial revolution where the legendary exploitation of labor was third only behind feudalism and slavery. I could digress even further but I'll stop because this beyond the TL;DR limit.

I look at it this way. Just like playing investments, everyone thinks they are smart when things are going their way. You don't truly know how good a person is at something until you see what they do when the chips are down. CEO's very much tend to fail at this if their first go to is 'layoffs' to cut costs. Most people honestly do not care that a CEO makes a ton of money. They care that they make a ton more money and don't care that their employees worked for a fraction and got them there only to turn around and treat them as a number when things get bad and rarely are punished in any meaningful way because of it. They generally walk away with all sorts of umbrellas if they actually get forced out.

Sorry, but Elon has shown his true colors in the last year. He may be rich, but it isn't because he's some great man who cares about everyone as many try to paint him to be. He may have been at some point, but now he's just another mega rich person who's lost the realities of majority of the country.

#6945 1 year ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Zoom out
The code is programmed to do this every 4 years. It’s called halving. We’ve brought it up 100 times in this this thread.

Yea that is a good reminder. The 4 year cycle predicted that 2022 would have BTC (and all crypto) in a bear market at this stage, just just a possibility, but a 100% lock based on history. You can confirm that with historical charting data.

Right now now we are dealing with that coupled with a fed-induced recession because the governments around the world over-stimulated the economies for too long, and they are trying to backtrack, so no one can and should trust any investment, while cash is declining in value. Most countries participated in this debauchery and knew this situation was inevitable, but everyone was too clouded trying to grab all of the free money being unnecessarily thrust into the economy to worry about the future. Understanding macroeconomics is important.

Ironically BTC was invented to be the one place wealth could be put to be insulated from this wild money-printing inflationary environment. Precious metals use to be that hedge, but even those are going nowhere, and no one knows why. It's a new world.

#6946 1 year ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Ironically BTC was invented to be the one place wealth could be put to be insulated from this wild money-printing inflationary environment. Precious metals use to be that hedge, but even those are going nowhere, and no one knows why. It's a new world.

Too many things to put money in and not enough money to go around? As stated above, they may have thrown a bunch of money in, but most of that money still ended up in the hands of the richest people in the world. If there is no money to be found, look at those people. Most of the world is still poor, but that's where everyone expects the money to come from.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#6947 1 year ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Ironically BTC was invented to be the one place wealth could be put to be insulated from this wild money-printing inflationary environment. Precious metals use to be that hedge, but even those are going nowhere, and no one knows why. It's a new world.

That's the future (near?) I believe Bitcoin is actually a "risk-off" asset...but the market does not agree with me...yet. Right now it's too small to play that roll. At some point it will flip.

#6948 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I look at it this way. Just like playing investments, everyone thinks they are smart when things are going their way. You don't truly know how good a person is at something until you see what they do when the chips are down. CEO's very much tend to fail at this if their first go to is 'layoffs' to cut costs. Most people honestly do not care that a CEO makes a ton of money. They care that they make a ton more money and don't care that their employees worked for a fraction and got them there only to turn around and treat them as a number when things get bad and rarely are punished in any meaningful way because of it. They generally walk away with all sorts of umbrellas if they actually get forced out.
Sorry, but Elon has shown his true colors in the last year. He may be rich, but it isn't because he's some great man who cares about everyone as many try to paint him to be. He may have been at some point, but now he's just another mega rich person who's lost the realities of majority of the country.

Agreed 100%. Elon is a brilliant guy who started out to solve some the world's problems, but he seems to have turned to his own self interests as priority. For example, at first it was funny when he pushed the envelope with BTC and Dogecoin promotions, but the reality is that kind of thing is illegal for any SEC regulated assets, and now we're all wondering if he was doing it for personal benefit, because he used BTC to help prop up TSLA's earnings one quarter. Remember Elon asking people on social media of he should sell a substantial portion of TSLA at $1200/share? How brilliant was that. He knew stock had topped, he knew what was coming, he did it 100% above-board so the SEC couldn't call him out, and did it in a way shareholders wouldn't get spooked as they do when an insider starts massive selling. Now it's down 50%.

He's many kinds of brilliant, but "absolute power corrupts absolutely" is many kinds of truth. If he gets on the wrong path we are all screwed.

#6949 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

That's the future (near?) I believe Bitcoin is actually a "risk-off" asset...but the market does not agree with me...yet. Right now it's too small to play that roll. At some point it will flip.

This brings up an entirely off topic thought regarding play money when you have no one to leave your things to. The 'it'll get there' mentality is great...I just hope I'm alive to actually enjoy it. Sitting on it until I'm dead makes zero sense and that applies to all investments. Using it to simply prolong my life in geriatric mode doesn't sound appealing.

#6950 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

This brings up an entirely off topic thought regarding play money when you have no one to leave your things to. The 'it'll get there' mentality is great...I just hope I'm alive to actually enjoy it. Sitting on it until I'm dead makes zero sense and that applies to all investments. Using it to simply prolong my life in geriatric mode doesn't sound appealing.

This I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately the timeframe is unknown. I've placed (a rather large) bet. I could be wrong.

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