Dot com bust showed how gullible boomers were. Crypto bust shows how gullible boomers millennial kids are. Most of these buyers never had clue how to value a company or an asset.

Matt Damon worked his way up from a janitor with a gift, to literally growing potatoes on Mars using his own shit as fertilizer. I'm sure he knows more about these digital coins then most of us.

This blocks USA citizens for our safety…

There are certainly parallels there.

While whole numbers are arbitrary, I have to wonder about the psychological significance of sub $20k bitcoin and sub $1k Eth.

They seem like the kinds of numbers people would select for a few erratic bets...

Screenshot_20220615-131958_Chrome (resized).jpg

Although I’m critical of the Bitcoin bubble, I strongly believe Bitcoin will solve many systemic monetary issues. It will be of value to the likes of Amazon is. However, it’s going to take the greed is be demolished and a multi decade slower growth pattern to reach its usefulness imho.

You forgot, a newer generation of leaders that aren't stuck in the dark ages and actually try to understand technology rather than rail against it. Personally however, I don't think BTC is the future. Something else along the same lines will come around, ran by the government, or...someone the likes of Amazon since corps run the country these days. An unregulated, uncontrolled digital currency regardless of what protections they supposedly have would be even worse than what we have today.

Can't stop it...the genie is out of the bottle. There was a time it could have been stopped, but that time has passed.

I bought more ATOM for staking today when it was around $7, staking at 18.5% through Crypto.com's Defi wallet. ATOM was up in the $40s just a few months ago. I think I'm just going to sit on what I have now staking it and see what happens over the next year, it did jump over 10% today though.

I didn't say it would be stopped. AOL chugged along for years after the hype was over and replaced by other things. People's attention spans are short these days. Even though they keep printing money, there's only so much of it, and for people to put money into it, they have to have money, and there's lots of things competing for people's money. People move along to the new shiny at a fast rate these days.

The lure of easy money does seem to attract the gullible.

Look how popular sports betting is now.

Spend $1 get $100 the commercial says!!! hey, I can do that... and I have $1. Hey, where did my dollar go? duh.

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This chart includes BTC having four 80%+ drawdowns. It's volatile...but just lengthen your time frames.

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Reminder that Bitcoin is an asset with no counter-party risk! However, for that to be true you must self custody on a hardware (cold) wallet. This also carries with it a certain degree of responsibility. Lose you seed phrase, potentially lose your Bitcoin. Accidentally share your seed phrase (via scam)...lose your Bitcoin. Screw up the transfer...lose your Bitcoin.

Self custody is important...so is taking proper precautions and care. If you lose it, it's gone forever.

I don't know if I'd agree with that completely. On a normal transaction, I agree. But your counterparty risk doesn't come from the transaction part, it come from the country/government part. Countries do weird things sometimes to protect themselves, like even banning the ownership of gold like the US did.

Like bitcoin is probably worthless in North Korea because the network doesn't exist there. And there may countries in the future that do weird things as well as a result of this crypto meltdown.

Basically, what I'm saying is that you're correct that there is no transaction risk. But there is a non zero risk of it becoming unusable at some point in the future in some locations.

Difficult...but theoretically possible, so I'll give you that one.

https://clubofmozambique.com/news/uganda-announces-discovery-of-huge-gold-deposits-218828/

Looks like potential global gold supply just doubled.

I tend to think the inferences in charts like these are very dangerous as it contains the wild data of an unregulated technology and its tumultuous short lifespan.
In stock trading land, it's a literal meme/joke to ever imply that "past behaviour will indicate future success", and I think that is extra precarious of a lesson to heed when talking about cryptocoins. It is the temptation of those huge gains, that FOMO, that drove so much of the lass BTC bubble. So much that the spirit was embedded in a literal Superbowl Commercial.

You call them "bubbles". I call it normal S-curve adoption cycles. (Referring to Bitcoin only). I do not expect gains that big going forward. That being said, it is still early in it's adoption cycle, and I still expect it to outperform all other asset classes over the next decade.

The chart is designed to compare numbers against gold and the S&P returns, so the question remains what insights are you suggesting be gleamed from it? It is cheerleading over relevant analysis imho.
The implications inherent in presenting data like that are dangerous at their face.

The chart simply represents facts. Make of it what you will.

I expect it to outperform gold and the S&P returns over a 10-year period. Not because it did so in the past, but because its fundamentals have not changed, and its adoption continues.

Haven't had time to read through the whole thing yet...but interesting:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125499

"We demonstrate that Bitcoin consumes 56 times less energy than the classical system, and that even at the single transaction level, a PoW transaction proves to be 1 to 5 times more energy efficient. When Bitcoin Lightning layer is compared to Instant Payment scheme, Bitcoin gains exponentially in scalability and efficiency, proving to be up to a million times more energy efficient per transaction than Instant Payments."

LOL
well then!

Sure, just ignore the rest.

you can't shell-game some post-facto justification for posting an image like that, and I think you understand that already.

Where can one find these facts, so that one can verify the chart is accurate?

That kind of data is readily available online. I did not verify the numbers (that was beside my point) but I wouldn't instinctively doubt their accuracy.

Oooh a chart. lol

I was asking Astropin, actually, since he presented the chart.

“It’s online somewhere” doesn’t answer my question.

According to NASDAQ.COM it's performance was even better than the chart I posted:

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-vastly-outperformed-gold-and-sp-500-over-the-past-decade

If you don't like that I could post dozens more (I'm not going to...DYOR).

Link doesn't work.

I'd like to see more charts based on the few years of "historical " data there are.

Comparing new things with barely any history to things like the S&P makes no sense.

Like me saying my 8 year old nephew will be president someday.

Speculation is fun and all but...

Another one is stopping allowing people to remove their crypto.

So, these cases I don't fully understand how this works. If everyone kept their crypto in offline wallets, would these exchanges even be usable, and if there are no exchanges, then what good are the wallets?

They are only making money on transactions correct? Why would a bunch of people taking crypto out effect their bottom line if they aren't using everyone's crypto to make money(like banks do)? If they are, then that's a huge flaw in the system. It's not their money to do with what they want. It should be sitting there waiting to be used by the owner.

I mean, if you can't solve the 'it's not your money' issue, then crypto as a currency is definitely no better than what we have now. I assume on the horizon there's someone saying there will be no need for exchanges?

Great questions…
Several topics to discuss. You’re talking about three different methods here. Cold storage, exchanges, and yield banking. Yield banking is a company like Celsius which you give them your crypto and they loan it out or do whatever they want with it in exchange you get a payment for that.
The second is exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, etc. They act as the gatekeeper from your crypto, meaning if the company goes offline your crypto is unusable to you as well. Recently Gemini and Kraken both passed the 100% asset to asset tests, I haven’t seen any news if Coinbase did. Also worth noting Gemini is federally insured and backed by Fidelity.
Third is hardware wallet the common phrase in crypto is “not your keys, not your cheese”. Imo this is the beauty of crypto, a chance to be self sufficient. Of course the potential flaw here is the user, if that person loses the passphrase or someone with bad intentions finds it then game over.
How exchanges make money is most ppl need them to turn fiat into a crypto then they send it to hardware wallets for storage. They charge for both those services which is important cog in the system.

Whoops...fixed it.

I'm comparing it to the S&P...and gold and other assets...you don't have to.

There’s also a fourth option which is hot wallets. Lightening uses this. They’re great for using cryptos and not meant to hold large balances.

Just worth noting.

I know you are... but this is why I was saying there is a "marketing issue".

You have the zealots like yourself who feel free to post crazy shit with nothing behind it like its fact.

Especially when you do things like compare one thing with no history to the S&P which is ya know.. 500 things with 65 years of history.

You may as well use numbers like a kazillion.

There is a reason so many people don't take it seriously.

It seems like every few months someone comes on this thread that doesn't understand or like crypto and wants to argue about it. I'm not sure why people bother to argue with them, it's exactly like trying to argue with my dad, he's very old, set in his ways, scared of new ideas, and you are never going to change his mind. Elvishasleft is just here to troll for arguments.

That's one way to look at it. Of course the longer "so many people" don't take it seriously, the more I benefit...that's another way to look at it.

"Those who get to where everyone is going first, benefit the most"

Is he on Pinside? He’d fit right in here.

Not at all...

I just wish the messaging was better because the crazier people make it sound the more volatile it is.

As far as not understanding or "liking" it. Ive done pretty well with it so its not like I don't work with it.

People are going to have to grow up and stop saying stupid pie in the sky shit if it's ever going to stabilize.

You cant throw out charts saying it's going up 300,000% and be taken seriously.

Saying it's gone up over 300,000 percent isn't crazy, it's simply a fact. It also does not imply that it's going to ever do that again! What's so hard about all this?
I fully agree with "past performance does not equal future performance"...posting factual historical information does not change that. It also doesn't change that bitcoin is likely going to be a very valuable asset class and it's still early. No, we're not going to see 300,000+%...so what?

It's gone up a crazy amount due to hype... and you are trying to continue that hype I get it.

It matters because you want both things and that doesn't work... you want it to be "taken seriously" but you also want to say crazy speculative shit that noone not drinking the coolaid believes.

I realize its 2022 and thats how people are but it doesn't work.

Trying to help you... honestly this is something companies actually working in the crypto space teach their employees. They want them to tone down the "to the moon" gagillion percent blah blah rhetoric.

.

I disagree

I wish you the best... shit is about to get real in the economy in general so we will find out in 2023.

Who performs audits like that to verify 100% assets? What is the implication, that they have fiat assets to back all crypto traded?

https://www.bitcoinisdead.org/

Well in fairness to Astro, he's made it clear for years now that he's holding Bitcoin on a decades-long timeframe, and I think he's maintained that position through at least a few Bitcoin crashes. So unless something truly exceptional happens it's more like he'll find out in 2033.