(Topic ID: 205087)

CRT replacement for Carnevil shooter game


By Fooped

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Coyote
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

#1 1 year ago

Hey all,

I know this is somewhat off-topic (Arcade game yes, pinball no), but I scored a Carnevil from a arcade that was closing and its CRT has seen better days. There are scan lines going through it, and I'm sure it's a matter of time before it dies completely. I've done a CRT to LCD swap on a non shooter game (oddly enough it was a Baby Pac), so I know that the LCD is simply providing a visual at that point, as opposed to actually interacting with the player.

In my cursory search, it seems that this may be a problem given that the game is a light gun shooter.

Anyone have some wisdom here?

Thanks very much!

#2 1 year ago

Light gun games with CRT's can ONLY use CRT's. Sucks as CRT's are harder and more expensive to come by now. If the lines are burned in, you are screwed, but if the lines are just part of the video, those can be fixed with a monitor rebuild kit, adjusting the monitor or some other issue on the mainboard.

KLOV forum is a great resource for this. I got lots of help with my monitor issues on my BBH.

#3 1 year ago

If you can find someone local with a tube rejuvenator/tester first just to check if its worth putting time and money into the chassis would be ideal.If you rebuild the chassis and it has a weakening tube it will give you problems with the guns registering and will need replaced over time anyway.

#4 1 year ago

I expected as much. Does anyone has a source for someone who can do this work in the Boston area? The unit also is finicky on when it will actually turn on. I have to flip the power switch a number of times before it boots. Not such a great deal after all, turns out.

#5 1 year ago

I bet if you replace the power supply and get the monitor capped it will work great. The game is 20 years old and put in it's time. Just need to service it a bit and it should be just fine. Hit up KLOV and those guys will steer you right.

#6 1 year ago

Post a pic of the "scan lines", it could be a quick adjustment. Also post a pic of the monitor pcb/chassis so it can be identified.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Brian541:

If you can find someone local with a tube rejuvenator/tester first just to check if its worth putting time and money into the chassis would be ideal.If you rebuild the chassis and it has a weakening tube it will give you problems with the guns registering and will need replaced over time anyway.

Good Advice, but you will more than likely be wasting your time and money. Carnevils were built with really low grade CRTs. As the emissions faded, it was necessary to turn up the brightness / screen level to get the optics to trigger which is why you are seeing the retrace lines (on a washed out picture). You could probably adjust the picture to look good to the human eye, and then the optics won't work any longer. There is also a shot contrast adjustment in the game's menu that changes the difference between black and white. which can be changed to the point that you will no longer see the white text on the gray screen in the test menu so be careful.

I can't remember for sure but I think it uses a 7400 series WGM2574. If you are extremely lucky, there are two caps that go bad on those Wells Gardner monitors that provide the Video B+ to the neck board (which can cause a dim picture which causes tech to turn up the brightness). One is C310 10ufd at 250VDC and the other is C504 on the neck board 4.7ufd@200VDC. I think you should have around 165VDC across C504. If you have much less (like 100 or less), try changing both caps before doing anything else. It will be necessary to readjust Contrast, Brightness, and Screen Level (on the flyback) after making the fix.

As to rejuvination, good luck! The cathodes are so thin on those tubes that when you go to rejuvinate it, you will simply burn them away and totally loose the color. You can try Clean and Balance (not rejuvinate) and you might get lucky (much easier on the cathodes). But chances are, it will go from bad to worse. But, if you are going to toss the monitor anyway, you can take the financial risk.

Since it is a low res. 25" monitor, your best bet is to locate a much older game that uses one of the earlier CRTs with much better life in them (and can successfully be rejuvinated if necessary). Hopefully, you can find one at a local auction or off craiglist.

Another alternative is to find an old 25" CRT TV to marry the TV's CRT AND Yoke to the WG Montor PCB and metal chassis. Don't try to move the yoke over to the TVs Tube since you will more than likely never get the convergence right. Stick with better brand names as they typically used better grade glass than the generics. And you might want to avoid anything RCA or Zenith since those were pretty sorry CRTs for our industry. More than likely, the CRT in the TV saw far less hours on than a Video Game monitor. Check the ohms across both the game's Horiz and Vertical coils and see if the TV's come close. Usually, the H will be the same since both are a low res. yoke. But the Vertical values can be quite different and you will have issues if they aren't a close match (burn up the vertical drive IC or screen will be too tall).

The quantum hard drives were fairly voltage sensitive. So, you should check to see what 5V and 12V is at the Hard Drive power connector. The game is notorious for burning the edge connector fingers since voltage first comes into the logic board, and then goes back out to the coin door, guns and Hard Drive. To help this, we used to jumper the power wires going to the Jamma connector to the hard drive power connector jumper (simply done using splice connectors - the kind that let you straddle a wire and then have a knife you crimp down to join the two wires. Simply knock the dead end out of the one channel and you can join two wires side by side in a snap. You want the Blue color for that gauge wiring). Make sure you join the Red, Yellow and one Black to wires that are coming FROM the power supply, not going from the Logic Jamma out to the rest of the cabinet (coin door lights, Coin meter etc.)

A nice upgrade is to buy one of the Hard Drive eliminator kits that use a CF Flash card instead of a mechanical hard drive which will eventually fail.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Fooped:

I expected as much. Does anyone has a source for someone who can do this work in the Boston area? The unit also is finicky on when it will actually turn on. I have to flip the power switch a number of times before it boots. Not such a great deal after all, turns out.

its going to be your most expensive route to go (compared to doing it yourself), but the techs are well trained at all the Betson facilities

Betson New England
960 Turnpike St. Unit 13
Canton, MA 02021

781-821-8533
800-274-6326
781-821-9082 (Fax)

#9 1 year ago

"scan lines going through it" doesn't sound like imminent failure to me, it could be something as simple as the flyback screen adjustment pot set too high. As previously mentioned post some pics and we can help further. Monitors are usually repairable fairly easily.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

"scan lines going through it" doesn't sound like imminent failure to me, it could be something as simple as the flyback screen adjustment pot set too high. As previously mentioned post some pics and we can help further. Monitors are usually repairable fairly easily.

True, but as I stated, turning down the Screen level will more than likely stop the guns from working. We had over 100 Carnevils in our company and they all basically suffered the same fate: bad CRTs. If you wanted the guns to keep working, you had to adjust for a crappy looking screen or replace the monitor.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

True, but as I stated, turning down the Screen level will more than likely stop the guns from working. We had over 100 Carnevils in our company and they all basically suffered the same fate: bad CRTs. If you wanted the guns to keep working, you had to adjust for a crappy looking screen or replace the monitor.

i agree. crts suck. i wish happ (or anyone) would sell a replacement with a lcd and a tracking bezel (like found in the sega gun games). i am sure there is more to it than that, but it would help a lot of older gun games.

#12 1 year ago

CactusJack (And others) sincere thanks for the info. I am nowhere near technically inclined to even attempt the repairs you mentioned. I paid 800.00 for the machine, and it currently works (albeit with the 2 maladies I described). I don't want to put a ton of effort into fixing it as it's pretty much just for parties and such. It's on my third floor and weighs about 8 billion pounds (Internet says 525 or so). Should I just sell it? I don't want to go on some wild goose chase for the appropriate monitor (which I likely couldn't change myself anyways from the sound of it).

Ugh.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Fooped:

CactusJack (And others) sincere thanks for the info. I am nowhere near technically inclined to even attempt the repairs you mentioned. I paid 800.00 for the machine, and it currently works (albeit with the 2 maladies I described). I don't want to put a ton of effort into fixing it as it's pretty much just for parties and such. It's on my third floor and weighs about 8 billion pounds (Internet says 525 or so). Should I just sell it? I don't want to go on some wild goose chase for the appropriate monitor (which I likely couldn't change myself anyways from the sound of it).
Ugh.

IMHO, it's a great game (especially with family mode turned off...!) It's even on my wish list.

Changing monitors out is not hard at all. 25" you can do yourself if you open some space up. (My Rush driving games have 27"ers, and I can remove those myself.)

I would get the current monitor recapped, new flyback first. Then go from there.

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