(Topic ID: 298428)

Credit/Coin Dip Switch Issues for a Bally Early SS (Space Invaders)

By mtgedney

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by mtgedney
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    #1 2 years ago

    Hey guys. Trying to wrap my head around a Bally Space Invaders that we had set on 1 credit / 2 coins. At some point it began to give 1 credit / 1 coin without any changes to the dip switches. Initially, I thought the dips may be bad, as I had confirmed all of the dip switch settings were correct. I actually tried to jumper the dip connection on the backside of the MPU and it still wouldn't give the proper credits. I still thought maybe it was dip related so I ordered some replacements, however, I never installed them because the MPU failed and would no longer boot approximately 1 month after the initial problem.

    We installed another -35 MPU and oddly enough, the same issue still exists. I've changed the dips to different settings and there will be variations in how many credits one coin will give, however, it is never accurate. I would be highly unusual for both MPUs to have similar dip switch issues. It is leading me to believe there are some wiring issues that have presented themselves. Switch matrix problem? Any thoughts? This is a genuinely strange issue.

    #2 2 years ago

    have you checked the coin microswitches on the door?

    try unplugging and reconnecting the door plug

    #3 2 years ago

    Are you sure the 2 coins per credit ever worked?

    The ROM at U6 for Space Invaders (version 720-37) was changed to support a couple of different coin/credit settings. A side effect is that dip switches 1 and 9 are ignored meaning the 2 coin settings are no longer valid.

    If you really want 2 coins/credit, you need to replace U6 with version 720-35 ROM.

    See here for more details:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oliver-rom-combine-trouble#post-3650011

    BTW, a peculiarity with Space Invaders is that it only has "50" point tens scores. It means 8 out of 10 game over match numbers will never be achievable.
    In the ROM at U1 if you change the following using a hex editor, the sling shots will be changed from scoring 50 points to 30 points:

    U1 Address:
    0000: change 51 to 53
    01BE: change 05 to 03

    #4 2 years ago

    Oh yes, we ran it at .50 for months and then it decided it wanted to be set for .25. One of the strangest issues I have run across on a pin. We haven't changed or modified the game code or replaced any of the roms at U1, U2, or U6. I could try to burn a new set to see if that fixes the issue?

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    I could try to burn a new set to see if that fixes the issue?

    Post a picture of the ROMs. Lets see what version you're running first.

    I just had another look at the 720-37 U6 code. DIP switches 1 and 9 are confirmed to be ignored. The only way it can kind of work as you mentioned is if you had credit/coin switches set as per the option in the red box shown below. See the *** description.
    All other 2 coin DIP switch settings are treated as 1 coin settings.
    SI_Credits-Coins.jpgSI_Credits-Coins.jpg

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    BTW, a peculiarity with Space Invaders is that it only has "50" point tens scores. It means 8 out of 10 game over match numbers will never be achievable.
    In the ROM at U1 if you change the following using a hex editor, the sling shots will be changed from scoring 50 points to 30 points:
    U1 Address:
    0000: change 51 to 53
    01BE: change 05 to 03

    Thanks for this!

    #7 2 years ago
    26648 (resized).jpeg26648 (resized).jpeg26650 (resized).jpeg26650 (resized).jpeg
    #8 2 years ago

    Not the best pics but is what I had available.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    Not the best pics but is what I had available.

    Sorry, they're no help.

    #10 2 years ago

    I will have to go get some better pics. Thanks.

    #11 2 years ago

    Did you by any chance shuffle the coin chutes around? Each chute is controlled by a separate set of switches. Verify your switches are set for 1/2* and note which coin chute you are using for this setting.

    #12 2 years ago

    We’ve looked at all the coin slots. It isn’t related.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    BTW, a peculiarity with Space Invaders is that it only has "50" point tens scores. It means 8 out of 10 game over match numbers will never be achievable. In the ROM at U1 if you change the following using a hex editor...

    Now THAT would bug me tons more than the coinage issue, in home use anyway. A 2% match percentage, what a royal gip! Sort of falls under the category of an oversight rather than a outright bug.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    We’ve looked at all the coin slots. It isn’t related.

    Did you look at the U6 ROM to confirm which version it is?
    If it was version -37 did you set the DIP switches as I mentioned above?

    Quoted from frenchmarky:

    Now THAT would bug me tons more than the coinage issue, in home use anyway.

    Same here!

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from frenchmarky:

    Now THAT would bug me tons more than the coinage issue, in home use anyway. A 2% match percentage, what a royal gip! Sort of falls under the category of an oversight rather than a outright bug.

    Although it is a bug when you think about it, the odds of match are still 1:10.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from frenchmarky:

    Now THAT would bug me tons more than the coinage issue, in home use anyway. A 2% match percentage, what a royal gip! Sort of falls under the category of an oversight rather than a outright bug.

    I did something similar on RGP for SI but I changed the score to 10 instead of 30. I like the 30 point idea much better as it's closer to what was intended with a similar result.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from BigAl56:

    Although it is a bug when you think about it, the odds of match are still 1:10.

    Oh yeah you're right, like if an EM match unit was stuck on the same number it would still be 10% although that would be the match unit being stuck, not the scores only landing on certain numbers like SI does. So it's a bug but has no real effect as far as the player is concerned. Doesn't 'bug' me anymore.

    1 week later
    #18 2 years ago

    I finally got around to taking a picture.

    20210901_123728 (resized).jpg20210901_123728 (resized).jpg
    #19 2 years ago

    720-37 U6 ROM.
    The only way it ran 1 credit / 2 coins was per the DIP switch settings I listed in red in post #5 above.
    But as per the note, the 4th coin buys another 2 credits not 1
    If you want pure 1 credit / 2 coins you need to downgrade U6 to 720-35

    #20 2 years ago

    I actually found an older thread with the same issues, however, the links are dead. Where can I find the rom for the U6

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    I actually found an older thread with the same issues

    Link?

    Quoted from mtgedney:

    Where can I find the rom for the U6

    These games all use the -35 U6 ROM. Download from IPDB.

    #Nitro-Ground-Shaker
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    #22 2 years ago

    I have a mystic u6. Would I need to move jumpers around? I think they are different chips, so very likely. Does it matter if the code is written on 2 or 3 roms? For example if I download the code for a u2 / u6 rom arrangement, but put in the mystic at u6, will it work?

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    I have a mystic u6. Would I need to move jumpers around?

    If it's a black 9316B PROM like yours shown above, then jumpers stay the same.
    If it's a 2716 EPROM, then you need to modify the jumpers.
    If you're not sure, post a picture of it.

    Quoted from mtgedney:

    Does it matter if the code is written on 2 or 3 roms? For example if I download the code for a u2 / u6 rom arrangement, but put in the mystic at u6, will it work?

    U6 is the operating system code - there's nothing in it specific to Mystic.
    U1/U2 is the game specific code where the Mystic personality/rules are.
    So if you download the Mystic set from IPDB, just program the U6 code to a 2716 EPROM or 2816 EEPROM and change the jumpers accordingly.

    #24 2 years ago

    If I download the SI u2/u6 code and burn the u2 to a 2716, the leave the Mystic code u6 I should code. I'll have to jumper the mpu for 2 roms and 2716s. Thanks Quench. Keep you posted.

    #25 2 years ago

    It sounds like you have a MPU board from a Mystic with Mystic ROMs that you want to convert to Space Invaders - right?
    If yes, leave the -35 ROM at U6 as is.
    You will need to replace both Mystic U1 and U2 with Space Invaders U1 and U2 each in 2716 EPROMs. You could if you wanted merge Space Invaders U1 and U2 files into a single 2732 EPROM fitted at U2 and jumper accordingly - the U1 file goes into the lower half of the 2732, the U2 file goes into the upper half of the 2732.

    #26 2 years ago

    Actually I am using the Mystic board in SI. It had 3 2716s but I moved the jumpers when my SI board died. I no longer have the Mystic but I have the mpu.

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    Actually I am using the Mystic board in SI.

    In that case, I'm confused. Why are you programming U1/U2 when you need to swap U6?

    #28 2 years ago

    Cause it has been jumpered to 9316

    3 months later
    #29 2 years ago

    Quench I have not got around to burning a 720-35 U6. Anywhere I could order a set from? Any chance to get a 9316 U6 -35 so I don't have to rejumper the board?

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from mtgedney:

    Any chance to get a 9316 U6 -35 so I don't have to rejumper the board?

    Get one of the Viking sets from here, it also uses the 720-35 ROM at U6 and his are 9316 chips:

    ebay.com link: itm

    #31 2 years ago

    Ordered. I'm actually trying to sell it but it looks like it may stay in the collection.

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