(Topic ID: 212102)

Credit Card Fraud

By merccat

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by ImNotNorm
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There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

So it’s probably happened to everyone at some point in time... unauthorized charges to your card. This one however is a new one for me.

Typically when I get fraudulent charges I’m able to think in my head... maybe some merchant I used got hacked, or maybe that dodgy gas station was tapped or perhaps that waiter cloned my card... whatever... somehow through use in the wild my number got out there. Call the bank, yadda yadda, a little inconvenient but usually harmless.

Then today I had fraudulent charges on a card I have never used, nor do I ever carry it with me. I got the card for a promotional offer on a balance transfer about a year ago and immediately put the card in the filing cabinet when it came.

So how the heck does someone manage to use it? Two transactions from the same place totalling about 1500 dollars. Are the scammers scanning random number combinations across the web to try to find successful hits or what?

#2 6 years ago

Sounds like the issuing bank got hacked

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

Are the scammers scanning random number combinations across the web to try to find successful hits or what?

That is one method, but it's not *completely* random. Credit card numbers are made of a few parts: the industry ID, the issuer ID, the account number, and the checksum. From there, a scammer can find a merchant that's a little lax with what info they require to charge something, and then once they get a hit, they either sell the number as a live number or just go bananas.

Other ways to get numbers are from stolen personal information, security breaches (such as the equifax hack), credit card skimmers, malware on POS (point of sale) devices in stores, or someone simply snapping a photo or writing down the info from the card.

Security all around for the credit card ecosystem is really woefully inadequate.

#4 6 years ago

Every time I go to the States, one of my cards gets “compromised”

They’ve never been compromised anywhere else in the world.

Last time I was really careful and I don’t think I let the card out of my sight.

However, two weeks after I got home I get a call from the bank “hey, did you buy $180 bucks of stuff from Bed Bath and Beyond in California today?”

Ummmm nope!

“Cool. Card cancelled!”

The banks are always cool about it. But still a pain in the ass, I have to cancel all my auto-charges to the card (phone bill etc) and redo them.

rd

#5 6 years ago

My banker said that it has gotten so bad that many people are ditching cards and going to back to cash if you can beleive it.

#6 6 years ago

Last time for me it was $15,000 worth of furniture at a store in Ohio that showed up as a fraudulent charge.
How the heck does that happen?
Did the store not verify ID anywhere during a $15,000 transaction? from someone with an out of state address? where did they deliver the stuff?
Best part is that I now am on the store's mailing list and get their catalog at my house here in Michigan. Yeah, probably not going to buy any furniture several hundred miles from home.

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Last time for me it was $15,000 worth of furniture at a store in Ohio that showed up as a fraudulent charge.
How the heck does that happen?
Did the store not verify ID anywhere during a $15,000 transaction? from someone with an out of state address? where did they deliver the stuff?
Best part is that I now am on the store's mailing list and get their catalog at my house here in Michigan. Yeah, probably not going to buy any furniture several hundred miles from home.

Amish Mafia!!!

#8 6 years ago

i am 3 for 3 on card compromises on trips to Cleveland. Almost everytime i travel there i have to replace my card.

#9 6 years ago

It's a pain in the ass but I don't worry about it. There's really nothing you can do. Totally sucks as you have to redo all of your auto pays etc. but I've certainly never lost any money. It seems the "chip" was supposed to help curb fraud but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. I'm probably going through about a card a year. They usually don't even get the charge through (they are almost always denied).

I never, ever use my debit card any more, as it seems it would be a little more complicated if actual cash were stolen from my account.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Security all around for the credit card ecosystem is really woefully inadequate.

This times a million.

I do a lot of work with PCI DSS and you guys wouldn't believe some of the shit that goes down.

#11 6 years ago

Yeah, no biggie but it’s just so weird considering I never used the card and it never left the house.

I think ForceFlow is right, I forgot that about half the number is easily predictable. It’s just kind of unnerving to think that scammers may be crunching through millions (if not billions) of card numbers looking for hits... means no card is safe.

Issuer hacked could be a possibility, but I haven’t heard anything about them and they are a major bank (BofA)... could always be a disgruntled worker snagging a thumdrive full of numbers on their way out too I suppose.

#12 6 years ago

This has also happened to me and my Wife here ! We got hit several times with purchases in States we were never in! It was done by Phone-in-order! What got us was the Bank returned all funds,and didn't care about who dunnit!!! So,we cancelled overdraft protection,and what that did was not allow a major purchase to go! Also changed passwords and all I.D.no's!! C U at the Lodi Grape pin show in May,Mercat!!!

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Last time for me it was $15,000 worth of furniture at a store in Ohio that showed up as a fraudulent charge.
How the heck does that happen?
Did the store not verify ID anywhere during a $15,000 transaction? from someone with an out of state address? where did they deliver the stuff?
Best part is that I now am on the store's mailing list and get their catalog at my house here in Michigan. Yeah, probably not going to buy any furniture several hundred miles from home.

furniture store is probably in on the scam. a lot of really shady looking furniture stores in ohio that has DEALS DEALS DEALS on that mattress you need.

My discover card number gets stolen about once a year. They are really good about catching it as apparantly my buying habits are mighty predictable as they detect the fraud quick and issue me a new card / number.

#14 6 years ago

Happens to me just about every other time I use a card at Target. I'm waiting on my replacement at the moment from my last hacked card. One other thing I also noticed is the charge is always to some place in Chicago. Several were to different party supply stores.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

This times a million.
I do a lot of work with PCI DSS and you guys wouldn't believe some of the shit that goes down.

So I wonder what would be a better system while still retaining most of the convenience (since that is apparently more important than security to CC issuers). I like Apple Pay’s uniwue number per transaction and I assume google pay is also modeled on that concept... but the issuer still has an apparently easy to break number behind it.

At least they are getting pretty good at identifying suspicious activity and alerting... I’m presuming if caught through that system then no funds ever actually make it to the thief.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Last time for me it was $15,000 worth of furniture at a store in Ohio that showed up as a fraudulent charge.
How the heck does that happen?
Did the store not verify ID anywhere during a $15,000 transaction? from someone with an out of state address? where did they deliver the stuff?
Best part is that I now am on the store's mailing list and get their catalog at my house here in Michigan. Yeah, probably not going to buy any furniture several hundred miles from home.

One time I had about that amount charged from a medical supply company.... Since they appeared to be a smaller company I called them to let them know so that they wouldn’t send anything out... the strange thing was that they had no idea it had happened and on their side no record of the charges. While I suppose they could have been in on it, I suspect someone had somehow compromised their system of just simply spoofed it somehow.

#17 6 years ago

My wife's card just got hit last week. Bank is working on it. Inconvenience, yes, but bank usually works it out and refunds the $. Ours was for $200. $1500 would suck! Sorry to hear. Hope it gets worked out.

#18 6 years ago

Happened to me at a subway/gas station in Florida. Someone must have copied the number or something and tried to use it on match.com and Zoosk. That god these cards are more secure now than they used to be.

#19 6 years ago

I have thought about a protective wallet. I understand that won't protect it once its out, but at least when your walking around and the guy sitting in the lounge with the scanner won't compromise your card.

#20 6 years ago

So my very oldest pal is the money brains behind the restraunt “the Cheesecake Factory” . They have a problem with gift card fraud, and the conversation while golfing a few weeks ago was “how can crypto currency’s block chain model help reduce fraud” . Regardless of the side of the fence you are on regarding crypto currency, analytical money people are looking for ways to move that practice of chain blocking to cards of all types. Imagine If we could eliminate the fear of bank account drainage. I would only have 98 more problems to worry about

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from chad:

I have thought about a protective wallet. I understand that won't protect it once its out, but at least when your walking around and the guy sitting in the lounge with the scanner won't compromise your card.

Honestly, I’m thinking why bother... this card was compromised without ever being out in the wild. The account was literally opened with a balance tranfer offer and when the card arrived it went straight to the filing cabinet. The card was never used and never even left the house.... yet it still got used.

That tells me that there is absolutely nothing we can possibly do on our end to stop it.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from chad:

I have thought about a protective wallet. I understand that won't protect it once its out, but at least when your walking around and the guy sitting in the lounge with the scanner won't compromise your card.

Adam Savage from Mythbusters wanted to do a segment on RFID vulnerabilities a few years back, but said it was basically discouraged by the credit card company lawyers.

#23 6 years ago

anyone half decent with slight of hand could come up with a way to steal your credit card information at a checkout register. use a distraction and then take a cell phone camera picture of both sides of your credit card.

I worked at a place with RFID cards that would lock and unlock doors. If you forgot to buzz out you could get locked in the stairwell and have to go down to the ground floor and get your card synced up again. I kinda thought they did it to trace the movement more than security. I'd imagine with the right tools you could capture and spoof a RFID card.

I liked that mythbusters show. Sometimes the "scientific method" was a bit sketchy, but fun to watch.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

many people are ditching cards and going to back to cash if you can beleive it.

Now there's a thought!

#25 6 years ago

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#26 6 years ago

Having you card compromised and going thru the hassle of getting it straightened out must be what they mean by "rewards".

#27 6 years ago

why do people use credit cards abroad? Why not just bring cash and not risk the credit card fraud?? I always use cash outside the states. avoid international fees as well

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from cnuts13:

why do people use credit cards abroad? Why not just bring cash and not risk the credit card fraud?? I always use cash outside the states. avoid international fees as well

I’d rather go through the slight inconvenience and have the banks deal with the fraudulant claims rather than a thief see me with cash and get mugged.

#29 6 years ago

I've had my card compromised about 3 times in 10 years. Each time it was a very painless process and I was never on the hook for any of the fraudulent charges. One of the biggest benefit to using a CC (NOT a debit card!) is the buyer protection, you are never liable to pay for fraudulent charges. I use my standard 2% cash back card for almost all purchases and very seldom use cash.

The worst part about getting a fraudulent charge was losing my favorite credit card number, it ended in 1234

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from cnuts13:

why do people use credit cards abroad? Why not just bring cash and not risk the credit card fraud??

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#31 6 years ago
Quoted from cnuts13:

why do people use credit cards abroad? Why not just bring cash and not risk the credit card fraud?? I always use cash outside the states. avoid international fees as well

I never use cash because there are no perks to it. We haven't had to pay for a plane ticket or hotel in many years now simply because of all the air miles/hotel points we accumulate by using credit cards for all purchases. Most recently we had an emergency flight we had to take to Canada that would have cost us $4200, but we got it the tickets free because we used air miles. It's really a no brainer that has saved us a *ton* of cash over the years. Yup you will get fraud but it's simple to deal with, one call and you get a new card, done. The only tedious part is setting up all the auto payments to the new card. My wallet literally never has cash in it, haven't had any in there in ages. I'll leave a few bucks in the car for valet but that's about it. Generally speaking, I never use or carry cash.

Regarding how others get your card into, I suspect information breaches are more common, widespread and severe than the companies let us in on. Then that info gets sold, and we get fraud. I had my sole credit card replaced 3 times in the past years time because of it. Fortunately it's simple to deal with so it's not an issue for me.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

So I wonder what would be a better system while still retaining most of the convenience (since that is apparently more important than security to CC issuers).

It would be a better system if payment gateways and processors were held more accountable for sticking to proper security procedures. As you've discovered, physical skimming or number stealing in the presence of the card is only one of the many attack vectors.

If you were a criminal interested in credit card numbers, would you rather attack cards one by one (skimmer/physical theft) or would you rather put your resources into compromising a resource like a payment gateway that just continuously feeds you new numbers.

A lot of the public associates hacks and compromised servers with "loud" attacks, like defacing a webpage or denying service. In reality, for people interested in stealing information, it's all about being quiet and keeping your compromised assets available for as long as possible, and knowing when to abandon them.

When you hear about data breaches, it is more often than not something that has been going on for a while and was just discovered.

#33 6 years ago

This has happened to me at least 5 times. Two of the times, it was an employee at a credit card clearing house who sold off a bunch of numbers. The other times, it was an employee at a store.

#34 6 years ago

This stealing a never been used card has happened in my family as well. I believe they can get enough information from hacking organizations such as equifax to use your card online or make a clone.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2017/09/equifax-data-breach-what-do

#35 6 years ago

Storing (saving) your CC info on various shopping sites is a no-no. Hackers sell your login details to criminals on the black market/dark web, which gives them access to your stored credit card data.

Also beware of standalone, non-bank ATMs and self-pump gas stations where CC readers can be placed to scrub your CC digits.

#36 6 years ago

I also had this happen card got hacked bank sent new card never even activated the card by calling the number on the back 30 days later 10k in iphone purchases. Guy from the bank said something about the banks give the information to the processing companies or something. I told him to cancel the account.

#37 6 years ago

Had my debit card used fraudulently a couple of times which sucks because using debit cards as a credit card, it directly ties to your cash flow. Now what I do is just use my Discover or Visa depending on best cash back points at the time and just pay the balance off weekly and then get the rewards at the end of the month as a credit transferred to my bank account. Now when my "Credit card" gets compromised I'm not worried about getting my actual money back, its the credit card company's money getting spent. I noticed a fraudulent credit card charge is noticed/investigated/alleviated a lot quicker than when its a personal bank account.
Not saying any bank is worse than another with monitoring and correcting, but by doing this I'm not temporarily losing personal money, and I'm also getting free money credited to me just by doing what I normally do but with a different card.
Obviously none of this helps with preventing fraud but its just a habit to consider.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Had my debit card used fraudulently a couple of times which sucks because using debit cards as a credit card, it directly ties to your cash flow. Now what I do is just use my Discover or Visa depending on best cash back points at the time and just pay the balance off weekly and then get the rewards at the end of the month as a credit transferred to my bank account. Now when my "Credit card" gets compromised I'm not worried about getting my actual money back, its the credit card company's money getting spent. I noticed a fraudulent credit card charge is noticed/investigated/alleviated a lot quicker than when its a personal bank account.
Not saying any bank is worse than another with monitoring and correcting, but by doing this I'm not temporarily losing personal money, and I'm also getting free money credited to me just by doing what I normally do but with a different card.

The difference is that banks (i.e. when you use a debit card) offer no additional protections. You are on the hook for any fraudulent charges.

Credit card companies are legally required to offer additional protections so you are not liable for any charges you did not make.

Because of this, I see no point in ever using a debit card instead of a credit card. And you get rewards when using a credit card. Just be smart unlike most of the population and pay off your balance monthly so you actually MAKE money using the credit card.

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

The difference is that banks (i.e. when you use a debit card) offer no additional protections. You are on the hook for any fraudulent charges.
Credit card companies are legally required to offer additional protections so you are not liable for any charges you did not make.
Because of this, I see no point in ever using a debit card instead of a credit card. And you get rewards when using a credit card. Just be smart unlike most of the population and pay off your balance monthly so you actually MAKE money using the credit card.

Yes, this exactly! I never understand why anyone would use a debit card.

#40 6 years ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

Yes, this exactly! I never understand why anyone would use a debit card.

Because everyone cannot trust themselves with a CC.

#41 6 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

The difference is that banks (i.e. when you use a debit card) offer no additional protections. You are on the hook for any fraudulent charges.

Credit card companies are legally required to offer additional protections so you are not liable for any charges you did not make.

Because of this, I see no point in ever using a debit card instead of a credit card. And you get rewards when using a credit card. Just be smart unlike most of the population and pay off your balance monthly so you actually MAKE money using the credit card.

Not sure if you are trying to teach me something or just reiterate what I was saying but....Yes that's exactly my point. Something to consider for those that may use a debit card as their primary method of paying for things. Better protection and free money for doing it.

#42 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Because everyone cannot trust themselves with a CC.

Or their wives...

#43 6 years ago

I am pleased to say I have never had a fraudulent charge on a credit card or have been a victim of identity theft.

That may be the rewards of using cash whenever possible.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Because everyone cannot trust themselves with a CC.

You can assign limits to a cc, just set a limit you can handle.

Quoted from o-din:

I am pleased to say I have never had a fraudulent charge on a credit card or have been a victim of identity theft.
That may be the rewards of using cash whenever possible.

"Reward" is probably the wrong word to use because you've likely lost quite a bit of money by not using cc's, they pay out extremely well. Likewise identity theft is a different matter, I've never been a victim of that either. But credit card fraud is cake to deal with, one call and you get a new card the next day. To each their own I suppose, but I just can't understand why people leave so much money uncollected. It's literally free money so long as you pay your card in full each month. Meanwhile we'll continue to enjoy free flights and free hotels.

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

You can assign limits to a cc, just set a limit you can handle.

People that can't trust themselves with a credit card can't be trusted to set a limit

-1
#46 6 years ago
Quoted from Reality_Studio:

you've likely lost quite a bit of money by not using cc's

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#47 6 years ago

At the risk of pointing out the obvious.... I hear it mentioned quite often that a credit card theft didn't cost anything. That is, they were reimbursed for all their fraudulent charges. Since these are expenses to the credit card company they are costs that are built in to the prices we pay for everything. And when we pay cash we are paying the extra money needed to pay credit card rewards and getting nothing in return. In other words, we the consumers pay for all this fraud.

#48 6 years ago

It happens to me at least twice a year. It's usually restaurants that have your card out of view and can also write down your three digit number on the back. We have one restaurant near me that I can't prove does this, but I've had less fraud after we started only using cash with them. I'm also sad to say I received a new business card after having fraud and made only one purchase with the new card with Marco Specialties at the 2016 Southern Fried Expo and received fraudulent charges that same night. I don't think banks even care to try to figure it out or go after anyone and just write it off.

#49 6 years ago

Ok I'm guessing you don't get it, so I'll explain with a real world example step by step:

1) I pay my credit card in full each month, hence the cc costs me $0. It's free.

2) We had to get two next day plane tickets to Canada last December due to a medical emergency, those plane tickets being next day had a price tag of $4200.

3) If I never used a credit card I would be out $4200 today. Instead I used air miles that I got from my credit card, hence I did not spend $4200.

If I didn't have my cc and instead used cash or debit card, I would be out $4200 right now. Because I used my $0 cc, I took that $4200 and used it instead to buy AC/DC Luci. Result? Credit card was 100% pure profit.

That is but one example. I could go on and list more yearly savings and profit, like how we stay at the Cosmopolitain hotel in Vegas free every year from using hotel points from my $0 free cc, but I think you get the point. Side bonus, this free cc money is tax free!

Does that make it more clear? Or does piles of free money each year still seem stupid to you? I don't want to sound curt and abrupt, but it's really win-win assuming you pay your cc in full each month. It's quite literally piles of tax free money and all you have to do is pay your card each month.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from Tekman:

I don't think banks even care to try to figure it out or go after anyone and just write it off.

Oh for sure. I had a bunch of info one time on the details of my card, someone tried to buy an extremely high end bike (?) and the owner of the store didn't even believe it. CC company wouldn't even take the info.

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