(Topic ID: 211383)

Creating an Iron Man Premium

By TimeBandit

6 years ago


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  • 156 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by BC_Gambit
  • Topic is favorited by 44 Pinsiders

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There are 156 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#51 6 years ago
Quoted from mmuglia:

What I would like to know is how this will affect scoring. With standard targets, even when a target is already lit because you hit it already, you still score points when you hit it again. With a drop target, you won't score points when the target is down. Am I correct with this? Thoughts?

The points for hitting the unlit targets is very minimal - it's not going to make or break a win by any means. And I'm pretty sure the software continuously resets them in cases where they're worth more points, like in IronMan Scoring which is a switch hit mode. So, I don't think the value matters much. How it affects play action is a bigger deal.

But really, some people just think they're 'cooler' than plain old targets. And I get that.

#52 6 years ago

I love drops- the mechanical disappearing act when you hit one is so much more satisfying than a stand up where sometimes the only way I can tell if so hit it is a score- or a light. Drops are fun. I would not care about losing the scoring, who’s to say the original is anything close to perfection. Play the game in front of you! This one would be fun for the novelty alone.

Nice job!! Super cool mod.

#53 6 years ago
Quoted from mmuglia:

What I would like to know is how this will affect scoring. With standard targets, even when a target is already lit because you hit it already, you still score points when you hit it again. With a drop target, you won't score points when the target is down. Am I correct with this? Thoughts?

"I love going for standups during switch hit-based modes" -- said no competitive player ever
It's a different game with different angles and that's what the OP is going for. Take TRON. Left bank of standups -- you can ricochet a ball off the standups through the Gem shot! You can't do that on an LE with drops.

#54 6 years ago

Wow! This is going to be cool when it's done. It always impresses me me when people have the knowledge to take on and complete a project like this. If I tried to do this there would probably be a huge marketplace listing for Ironman parts.

#55 6 years ago

Gary Stern is always quoted as saying how super expensive drop targets are to the BOM which makes me wonder how much a bank of drops really adds to the BOM, at scale. I wish there were way more drops, and especially targets behind drops, in pinball these days.

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

The 5V for the target assembly PCB is easy. It's just a 5V/GND pair that will be powered from outlets on the TLS board. One like this for each side..

Click..

Click..

boom!

great job so far. very nice documenting with both images and play-by-play

#57 6 years ago

Scoring is not affected. The system is way smarter than to just throw points away! I monitor the lamps and the switches. If there are points available at a target it is reset. You can see it on the fast scoring demo video. The targets continually reset all through the mode, then when play returns to normal, the target behaviour is completely different and dependent on the lamp state.

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

you can ricochet a ball off the standups through the Gem shot! You can't do that on an LE with drops.

Yes you can, time after time after time. I need to put a video up of this happening to stop this vicious rumour.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Scoring is NOT affected

Do you always raise them? Because you do get points for hitting an already lit target while spelling "Iron Man". If you're leaving them knocked down until the bank is completed during normal play, then you would lose *some* points.

There's also the behavior bit that on default settings, any target adds a letter on that side toward completion (at least for the first completion, not sure about subsequent sets). So if you hit "I" twice, it gives you some other un-lit letter. If it's a drop bank and the targets stay down, you'd get no credit for that second hit on progress.

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Do you always raise them? Because you do get points for hitting an already lit target while spelling "Iron Man". If you're leaving them knocked down until the bank is completed during normal play, then you would lose *some* points.
There's also the behavior bit that on default settings, any target adds a letter on that side toward completion (at least for the first completion, not sure about subsequent sets). So if you hit "I" twice, it gives you some other un-lit letter. If it's a drop bank and the targets stay down, you'd get no credit for that second hit on progress.

I am striving for complete replication. I haven’t coded the any target pays another letter behaviour, but it shall be done. No point will get left behind. There’s a slight subtlety in the any-target-paying-another-letter scheme in that it only pays adjacent targets to the one you hit. This can be monitored and replicated as well.
To reset the target bank after each hit, in order to score the minor points for hitting an already lit target, may get into the realms of “too many resets” for some users, so I will make it optional. I will use one of the DIP switches to opt in or out of this behaviour.

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Do you always raise them? Because you do get points for hitting an already lit target while spelling "Iron Man".

If I’m correct, every time you hit a stand up during “fast scoring” it bumps up the value of the “fast scoring”. Starts at 10,000 a switch hit, every hit to a stand up raises it by 1,000 points. Doesn’t sound much but it adds up in a good MB.

Good work Mikey!

rd

#62 6 years ago

I never considered the effect on scoring, but it sounds like you've already thought of everything Mike. I'm confident I can do this install now.

One minor suggestion: With the drops installed, you have the perfect opportunity to right a wrong by Disney licensing. As I understand, the target playfield inserts were supposed to have the letters I-R-O-N-M-A-N instead of 7 suits of armor. Licensing would not allow "IRONMAN" to be split into two words.

Perhaps you could get someone to make new decals for each drop that spell out I-R-O-N & M-A-N on each side (in the same font that is already used all over the backglass/cabinet/playfield)? It would sure be nice to actually see a dropped target letter correspond with the letter awarded on the DMD

Thanks again for doing this IM upgrade!

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Perhaps you could get someone to make new decals for each drop that spell out I-R-O-N & M-A-N on each side

You mean like this?

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#64 6 years ago

Ha you truly have thought of everything! Matching font to rest of game might look cooler though IMO

EDIT: Pinsider Flashinstinct sells a lot of custom decals for various pins. Perhaps he can put something together for this project?

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Ha you truly have though of everything! Matching font to rest of game might look cooler though IMO

I agree. These were on a used machine I bought. I have no idea where they came from.

#66 6 years ago

The last of the playfield wiring are all the cables needed to drive the LEDs for the ramp optic fibres. There is a cable to bring the RGB from the main controller. A distribution board to send this to the individual LED drivers, and jumpers to connect them all up.
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Individual LED drivers and their LED pods that fit to the end of the optic fibres screw in anywhere nearby the points where the fibres will be coming through the playfield.

Left..
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Right..
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The small distribution board can go right at the bottom of the playfield.
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Jump from here..
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To the first of the left drivers. There is a jumper already connecting the two drivers.
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Then go from the second driver..
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Over to one of the right hand side drivers.
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Here they are all connected..
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#67 6 years ago

Now the last one to connect back to the main driver. It's just a 4way RGB/Gnd.
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With loose ends that will get inserted into the main board.
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Here is the final, final group of cables to head back to the back box. 2 x coil groups (signal, 5V, trigger), red GI, blue GI, RGB ramp signal.
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And here is the final playfield wiring shot, with everything tied away and looking neat.
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#68 6 years ago

I had to move the coil driver boards because my 50V cables couldn't reach the tap with the playfield up. You'll find them just near the bottom of each drop bank.

#69 6 years ago

This is going to be sweet!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#70 6 years ago

Now back to the ramps.

I have a small issue with the fibre clips on the outside of the left ramp. The ramp flange is abnormally narrow, and the clips stick out too far and hit the wall of the machine. Solution, bend the clip.

Hold like this..
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Push against nearby specialist clip-bending die (edge of workbench)..
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Until bent 90 degrees.
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Now they look like this..compared to a flat one for reference,
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And sit close to flush with the edge of the ramp flange and clear the mirror blade.
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#71 6 years ago

I want to get the right ramp fitted as that is the one that presented the biggest challenge in getting the optic fibre mounted satisfactorily, and I think I’ve figured it out.

When looking to get the outside fibre of the right ramp down through the playfield there are really no suitable options.
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There is one possible path that takes the fibre across underneath the ramp to a flasher hole, but it goes a little too early (too far up from the bottom of the ramp) and also is visible under the ramp. Yeah you could put some black shield on it, but....ah just too hard and not good enough.

I am going to drill a hole for it. Right about here..
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And I want to be super clever and put it on a bit of an angle, so it dives into the playfield at and angle that doesn’t kink the fibre too much. Very scientifically I’ll choose this angle..
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Now I’d better check the under side to make sure we don’t exit into a lamp or something.
Looks like clear air.
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Good lord, I can’t believe I’m doing this to my beautiful, low play, HUO IMVE!
Pilot first..
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Now the big guns.. 4.5mm cannon.
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Oh gawd, what have I done?

#72 6 years ago

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#73 6 years ago

I think it’s perfect.
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Here’s where it came through.
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Here are the ends of the fibres as they appear on both sides.
Left..
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Right..
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There are plenty of posts on hooking up these fibres in my Total Lightshow thread, so I won’t bore you with going through it here, but here are the LED pods as connected to the fibres.
Left..
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Right. I may shorten the fibre on this side a bit and do a little tidy up, but pretty close to done as seen here.
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#74 6 years ago
Quoted from misterschu:

Will Total Lightshow allow you to include the drops in the ball search?

Yes it can. It won’t be triggered by the machine’s ball search, but I can easily build a playfield switch timer that covers all switches. I will just use the same rule. No switch hit anywhere for x seconds, then fire the coils. Only issue with that is, that a stuck ball in the rubber behind a drop will probably just get caged behind the reset drops anyway. And I can’t fire the targets down.

#75 6 years ago

Just a teaser here for the bit I like doing the most. The back box wiring.
I probably won’t be doing anything on this now until Saturday evening, so I’ll lead into the break with my bad-ass three-way 50V tap.
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It goes in J10, utilising the fuses that are already in the line.
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Two drop coils plugged in. One left for the knocker.
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#76 6 years ago

Almost there. Can't wait for some video!

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from nikpinball:

Almost there. Can't wait for some video!

And a re theme as I love the game not the theme! SORRY

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Now back to the ramps.
I have a small issue with the fibre clips on the outside of the left ramp. The ramp flange is abnormally narrow, and the clips stick out too far and hit the wall of the machine. Solution, bend the clip.

I'm actually surprised that you didn't modify and bend all of your clips like this. they appear to have a much cleaner look then with the clips sticking out

fantastic job on the fibre optic wiring, very neat and tidy

#79 6 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

I'm actually surprised that you didn't modify and bend all of your clips like this. they appear to have a much cleaner look then with the clips sticking out

I might try this. On most ramps they match the flange width pretty well, and I find they disappear into the game under playing conditions,,a bit like all the switch wires etc that are visible on your average playfield, but in some cases they do protrude more than I would like, and the bend procedure is quick and easy. It’s sliding all the clips on and off the fiber that’s the pain.

#80 6 years ago

awesome job on this game, need to find myself a iron man

#82 6 years ago

Really looking forward to seeing some new video of the drop targets in action & how your lighting code had progressed

#83 6 years ago

Big shout out to j_m_ for making me think more about the ramp clips, and modifying each of them a bit for a more elegant fit. Brilliant! I spent a while this afternoon redoing the right ramp, taking each clip and bending as necessary for a neat, firm fit all round.

Where there is no flange on a ramp, the clip has to hold firm with just a friction fit, so squash it a bit like this..
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Then hold like this and bend on a hard surface..
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They then hold firm on the area with no flange..
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They look absolutely spectacular. Thanks j_m_!!!!
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I took a lot more photos. I couldn't stop looking at them, haha!
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There are, of course, lots of places where you still need them full width, and they look great there, but now I've worked out how to mix it up and customise each one.
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When this is a kit (and it already is for Tron), the user can bend each one that needs to be bent in about 5 seconds.

#84 6 years ago

Here is the back box fitted out. There is plenty of Total Lightshow info out there on doing this. Let's take it as given.
IMG_0577 (resized).jpgIMG_0577 (resized).jpg

Drop bank power..
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RGB for ramps and one drop signal here..
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Red/blue sockets, factory white control, and the other drop signal here..
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Before I hook up any machine power I test everything with a battery. I use a button cell battery to fire the coils..
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OK, power on to test the drop target switches..
Targets up..
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Targets down. Oh no!..
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The middle target on the right bank is not registering. I spent quite a bit of time tracking this down to a dead opto on the target assembly PCB. Haven't seen that before. Well at least it's not my fault! I'll have to harvest a PCB off one of my other three-banks. I'll do that tomorrow.

Besides that everything worked first time!

#85 6 years ago

So I have coils firing, target switches working. Now to just test the lights.

I'll just let the photos do the talking.
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#86 6 years ago

And a quick fade test of all the controllable circuits.

#87 6 years ago

That looks great!

#88 6 years ago

I haven't coded the left drop bank yet, so no demo till I do that.

Of what I set out to do, I have still to install the apron and the real knocker. That will be all the hardware and I'll get that done tomorrow. Then I'll get to finalising the code, hopefully also tomorrow. So I may just create the Iron Man Premium within a week.

#90 6 years ago

Great job

#91 6 years ago

Unbelievable

#92 6 years ago

Very nice!!!!

#93 6 years ago

This is phenomenal!

#94 6 years ago

looks fantastic and thanks for the shout out

#95 6 years ago

The drilling solution for the right ramp turned out really well. Everything looks awesome!

#96 6 years ago

Apron time..

This is the metal apron that's going in..
IMG_0607 (resized).jpgIMG_0607 (resized).jpg

Complete with custom DMD..
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It mounts like the earlier metal aprons with the slots and front brackets.
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Line up the brackets.
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Screw them in snugly..
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Fit apron over..
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Fit the rear screws..
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Now for cables. Data and power
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Data cable replaces existing DMD cable, and passes through to the front..
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#97 6 years ago

I just had to quickly make a power splitter..

Power and data into the apron..
IMG_0619 (resized).jpgIMG_0619 (resized).jpg

Turn it on..
IMG_0621 (resized).jpgIMG_0621 (resized).jpg

That's it for visible hardware. I will put the knocker in later.

I haven't done any tweaking to the placement of the IRON MAN insert lamps yet. I may not bother. Here is how they look lit, with the lamps still just loosely held in their original positions. To me they are fine as is.
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And some video of them flashing..

The finished article!
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Now to code.

#98 6 years ago

Oh my! I must have an apron like that! How much?

#99 6 years ago

Wow! Now a dmd in the apron is BEYOND COOL
I can't believe that I have never seen that before. I would be in on that as a mod so fast even my head would spin...

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from Grinder901:

Oh my! I must have an apron like that! How much?

Quoted from AJB4:

Wow! Now a dmd in the apron is BEYOND COOL
I can't believe that I have never seen that before. I would be in on that as a mod so fast even my head would spin...

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