(Topic ID: 180210)

Crazy switch matrix problem

By uart

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by uart
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

#1 7 years ago

bram stokers dracula. In switch test with all connectors removed from the bottom of the cpu board. Using jumpers and diodes, if I activate any switch in row 1 and any switch in column 1 at the same time, I get those two switches plus the corresponding "battleship" switch. I mean if I use the 3rd switch in each I get the 3rd in and 3rd down on the matrix. First problem was a ground short and I have replaced U14, U20, and U18. Now this crazy stuff
Each switch will work properly if activated separately, and only combos of row 1 and column 1 cause the third switch register. None of the other rows or columns will cause this to happen. Any ideas?

#2 7 years ago

Is this an original board or Rottendog?

#3 7 years ago

Original.

#4 7 years ago

Can't say this is a valid test. Notice any issues during gameplay?

Quoted from uart:

First problem was a ground short

Which row/column?

#5 7 years ago

That's what first caught my attention after the repairs. The castle up kicker would pop occasionally when the drop target was down. I thought if was a flaky opto but switch test confirmed the "battleship" switch firing. Row 1 was shorted.

#6 7 years ago

Do you have any other WPC games you can swap the MPU with?

#7 7 years ago

No I don't.

#8 7 years ago

With your ohmmeter, can you test U13 pins 1-9 and 11-18 to ground? Looking to see if one of these pins is shorted. U13 is a buffer between U14 and U18.

#9 7 years ago

Sorry, I had to re-read my first post. I replaced U13 when I replaced U18. But all pins read ok. Inputs and outputs are different but consistent.

#10 7 years ago

Could it be the ASIC? How often do they fail?

#11 7 years ago

I have not seen one fail for a switch matrix failure.

Quoted from uart:

Sorry, I had to re-read my first post. I replaced U13 when I replaced U18. But all pins read ok. Inputs and outputs are different but consistent.

Was U14 replaced?

#12 7 years ago

Yes, U14 was replaced.

#13 7 years ago

Can you clean both the transmitter and receiver optos on the castle upkicker? Would be good to see this result.

#14 7 years ago

I replaced them thinking they were at fault for the intermittent popping. After that I got into switch test and found the "battleship" switches were registering any time row1 and column 1 were held in. ie, if I hold in switch 21 and 17 I get them and switch 27.

#15 7 years ago

Had some time this evening and dug a little deeper. When in single lamp test I get a light (LED) in another row other than the selected lamp.
A logic probe shows a high on column 1 at J137 pin1, even when the other columns are selected. The selected column goes high and stays high when its lamps are strobed. Weird. Also found that if I remove the ribbon connector between the cpu (original williams) and the driver board (rottendog) my switch malfunction goes away and all switches work correctly and independently without the "battleship" phenomenon.
Maybe something on the driver board messing with the D0 line?

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

Had some time this evening and dug a little deeper. When in single lamp test I get a light (LED) in another row other than the selected lamp.

Do you have non-ghosting LEDs installed? If not, this will be the nature of the regular LEDs.

#17 7 years ago

Not sure. It was a coin taker kit. I'll try some different leds tomorrow. But what about my switch problem going away??

#18 7 years ago

Why not fit lamps (incandescent) and see if your problem goes away?

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

Not sure. It was a coin taker kit. I'll try some different leds tomorrow. But what about my switch problem going away??

I have a BSD but I don't have a Rottendog driver board to do any testing. Do you have another WPC game you can swap driver boards with?

#20 7 years ago

I don't have one but I think I can borrow one from a buddy for over the weekend.

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

Not sure. It was a coin taker kit.

Did you buy a premium kit? If not, then you didn't get non-ghosting LEDs.
http://cointaker.com/t/bram-stokers-dracula

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

I don't have one but I think I can borrow one from a buddy for over the weekend.

Hopefully it will be an original driver board. If you don't have non-ghosting LEDs, then you still should have the same lamp problem as well. At least you can see if your switch issue is driver board related.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

...
Maybe something on the driver board messing with the D0 line?

Yes, you've got data lines shorted. Probably a solder bridge at one of the replaced ICs.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#24 7 years ago

I didn't replace any chips on the driver board. I'm working on getting one to swap out....

#25 7 years ago

I'm wondering if when the ground short occurred that it weakened the ASIC to the point that its fan-out has diminished for the D0 line??
Any thoughts?

#26 7 years ago

For the ICs you changed on the MPU board, did you test for pin to adjacent pin short? I didn't think about asking this as it is something I normally do when I change an IC and add in an IC socket.

#27 7 years ago

Yes I did. Standard procedure here also. I also check pin to pin on a chip and continuity to the next chip also. But the problem goes away when the ribbon cable is disconnected.

#28 7 years ago

Is this a powerdriverboard where U7 and U8 are used ?
If so, can you clean the area around the 2 ic's and check if there is any improvement.

#29 7 years ago

CHeck for a short on U7 and U8: pins 4 and 5.

#30 7 years ago

To quote one of my favorite pinballs, "We have a winner" U7 pins 4 and 5 weren't shorted, but definitely had some conductivity. After removing U7, the switches and lamps are functioning as they should. From the schematics I found, U7 and U8 are useless. J109 and J110 are not used. Or did I miss something?

Thanks to all who responded to my post!!

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from uart:

From the schematics I found, U7 and U8 are useless. J109 and J110 are not used. Or did I miss something?

This circuit is used in pre-fliptonic machines like Terminator 2 to detect that flipperbuttons are pressed.
BSDracula has a fliptronic board so doesn't need U7/ U8 / J109 ..... etc.

#32 7 years ago

1 billion 4 and change! Not bad for a 3 ball game if I do say so myself!! Working real good now. Thanks again for all the help.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 17.50
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Omaha, NE
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 329.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 119.99
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Decals
Pinball Haus
 
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 225.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 19.95
Playfield - Protection
SilverBall Designs
 
$ 17.50
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Haus
 
$ 5.00
$ 69.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 399.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
 
From: £ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RudeDogg Customs
 
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 46.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 84.99
$ 30.00
Playfield - Other
YouBentMyWookie
 
€ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Kami's Pinball Parts
 
From: $ 25.99
Lighting - Led
Lee's Parts
 
$ 109.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 5.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
9,700 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
South Bound Brook, NJ
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/crazy-switch-matrix-problem and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.