Yep just one more reason i stopped looking and selling pins on cl over a year ago.... sorry about your friend and family.

I only buy/sell on CL to people either known in the pinball hobby locally, from pinside, or after I do some research about the person from either a name, email address, or phone number and feel comfortable with them. If I am in any way uncomfortable, I pass on the transation. Nothing to do with Pinball sales or purchases but my wife and I are always armed.

I just saw this on the news, unbelievable! This is really a bad world we live in I tell ya, so sad.....

Wow, so sorry to hear about your friend and that his son witnessed that. Thank god his son wasn't harmed.
My boys always ask me to come to pinball deals, I always feel bad when I tell them no. This very story is the reason why I don't take my boys or my wife to any of them. You just never know.

Ive brought my 5 year old to just a few craigslist deals but reading your post there i will be packing heat next time, i never take my gun anywhere but ill just have to start i guess. I just don't understand why they wouldnt just take his keys and phone and then scram, you gotta kill guy infront of his kid.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your loss. However, theres only so many things you can do to protect yourself. You can either start believing in guns and protect yourself, stop selling things on CL, or just take your chances. I know its a risk whenever you're meeting up with strangers but honestly I think the chances are fairly low of things going that badly. That said, if it was something I was worried about, I'd keep some protection on me AKA a gun, especially if I lived in FL where you can carry both openly or concealed with little problem.

I always carry a firearm, anywhere i go, why take chances? Down here you can meet at any Police station lobby for CL transactions.

Interesting timing. The police in my city today announced a "safe zone" for online transactions. Basically they've set up a 24-7 well lit and recorded space in front of the station for people to meet and complete online transactions. Neat idea.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-charlottetown-ewatch-safe-exchange-1.3965088

The first two modern pins in my collection were Getaway and No Fear. I live nowhere near anything pinball, I had to drive 14 hours each way to pick them up. They were near Ottawa, in a place called Gatineau. I picked up a friend in Ottawa and she helped me navigate to the place. When we got there, it was in the middle of nowhere, no neighbors in sight. Knocked on the front door and was directed to drive around back to a large barn. Backed up to the barn door, and the door rolls up. Then someone pops out of a side door and directs me to back into the barn. It didn't seem right (spoiler, nothing bad actually happened). I backed in a little ways and now he was knocking on the hood - drive all the way in. At this point I got nervous as it occured to me that I am 1400 km (1000 mi) from home, no one knows where I am, and I'm meeting someone I don't know with $7k in my pocket and driving an anonymous rented van. As soon as I'm all the way into the barn, the door slams down and I see 6 large guys circling the van. My heart is now racing and my friend suddenly blurts out "fuck, we're going to die!".

I whisper to her to that I'm getting out of the car and locking the doors behind me, she should slide into my seat, and that I'm leaving the key in the ignition and if ANYTHING starts to go down, she has to punch it, through the door, and don't stop for anything.

Ultimately, it was totally a misunderstanding. The guys were all great, the barn was their man cave and they didn't want to let any heat out (it was a cold November day) while we did the pinball deal (and they wanted to show off their other toys too).

But holy crap did we have a scare!

Lots of local police stations are setting up Safe Transaction zones...I believe Raleigh (where I live) now has them. I usually meet in a public parking lot (walmart or target) for small stuff. If it's a pinball machine, you're coming to the house and loading it. I'm well armed always (won't disclose where/how), so if coming to the house or on the road, I can defend myself and family. But I pray it would never come to that. As other poster's mentioned, when it comes to pins, most of my transactions are people I know in the hobby. If I don't know you, you'd better have someone who can vouch for you that I do know. Not letting Joe Blow off the street into my home. If I'm going to buy one, well, I can honestly say I've been to some pretty sketchy areas to score a pin. Trailer parks in Johnston County are no picnic, nor the hood in Durham. I'm older and wiser now, and probably wouldn't venture into the same places now.

I think the best thing to do is to talk to the person on the phone first (not email or text). I think you can tell a lot from talking to the person on the phone and hearing their voice for 10-15 minutes. If the person sounds like a nerdy pinhead totally into the hobby (like we all are) then i think you are safe. Ask a bunch of detailed questions and make small talk for a few minutes over the phone. If you get shifty, noncommittal answers, then do not agree to meet. I don't think a bad person who wants to do you harm could fake being a pinhead. If something doesn't sound right or sounds too good to be true, then pass on the deal.

Always pack just in case. Dont rely on it though and try and meet in a public place or have a friend with you during the transaction

This right here. I'll always be ready to defend myself in these situations - even in my own home. Not that i'm paranoid, but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Read the story senseless killing by two young thugs

A couple of scumbags, happens all the time, but will only be on the news for one day then never hear about it again.

I agree with this. I get a little nervous with almost all transactions if I don't know who I am dealing with. I had this recently happen and then I talked to the other person on the phone and it made me feel way more comfortable. This kind of thing probably doesn't happen too often with pins since it's more of a fringe item as compared to, say, a car or stereo but you never know.

More than likely I'd move the machine into the garage so I don't have to let them into my house. I don't trust people until I know them

I have seen this implemented in many town though not really practical for pins

I had a very similar experience when I went to a house, which was somewhat in the country, and the garage door opens to about 5 guys playing pool. Fortunately the machine was close to the garage door so I never felt that much in danger, but it did make me wonder. Also the deal did not happen and the guy started to started to get upset when I told him I could not take it for the price he wanted. I quickly turned around and walked out. I think I will start carrying when going to place I am not familiar with especially when holding thousands of dollars in cash.

I live in a big city. If it's a small item for cash, I'll meet at a starbucks or something - this seems to work for everyone.

if it's a large item I'm selling, like a pinball machine or a drum set, I have them meet me at my shop. Never had any issues or had bad feelings about a deal. Just go with your instincts and you'll be ok.

I never ever use CL.

Every machine I've sold/traded over the last few years has been here via Pinside. At least you can see someone's history- past transactions etc....

I always insist on a video chat to be able to show a machine "live", but sometimes people don't want to do that for whatever their reasons.

...there's no question, I get concerned letting someone into my home with my wife and kids home.

If you can carry, do so, better to have options if shit goes south. I no longer look on CL, just don't care anymore.... but every dealing I have had over the years, and any in the future, armed is the only way I do it. I actually carry everywhere I go anyway, rather not be a sheep when the wolf strikes....

I try to avoid Craigslist if possible. Almost every machine I've bought and sold has been either through here or the Michigan network.

I also always talk to the person on the phone first. No talk no transaction.

I exercise my right to carry, but I don't have any grief over your post....the only thing I would change is that "PEOPLE" are evil. Not the sledgehammers, crowbars, knives, bombs, guns, etc. that they use to harm or kill other people. If you were to remove ALL guns from existence, people would still kill you if you have what they want, the opportunity arises, and they lack moral compass. Don't want to start a political argument either...I have my beliefs, and you have yours...as long as we aren't harming each other or infringing on each other's lives, live and let live

You are completely free to feel that way and to some extent I see your point. My whole point is, if you want to protect yourself because you're worried about your safety, or not even worried, but just want the peace of mind, then you'll have to get past how you feel about guns. I would say learn martial arts or carry a knife or something but those aren't the most effective methods although its probably better than nothing. I just don't know any better ways to keep yourself protected. Meeting at a secure location or getting to know somebody the best you can before meeting up are great ideas obviously but not always practical. Of course, packing is not a gaurantee either, but its certainly your best line of defense. In your case, and in the case of others who feel like you do, I would just suggest staying away from CL and other anonymous classifieds like others have said. I'm sorry to hear about the terrible thing that happened with your mother, but its not the guns fault or that she was able to obtain one. If it had not been by that means it could have just as easily been by another.

When you look at gun death statistic suicide is the largest category

Here is my go to course of action for buying off Craigslist.

1.) The first I do is inspect the ad, take a more in depth look, read between the lines. You can usually tell if someone is a hobbyist or just some guy who has had the machine in his basement untouched for the last 10 years after inheriting it. The description of the game and pictures alone can tell a lot. A description such as, "doesn't turn on, don't know how to fix it" can tell you a lot already.

2.) After seeing the ad, I will contact the seller. Usually I will email them, or text if they leave their phone number. After a few texts or emails I will usually call them or FaceTime them (even better in my opinion.) Again, you can tell a lot just by a phone conversation. Read between the lines here again, by now you should have a really good idea of who you're dealing with.

3.) I find that asking someone to pack up their game and haul it to meet up in a parking lot somewhere doesn't really work. They want someone to come take it off their hands, they don't want to do all the extra work. So I agree to meet them at their house or wherever the game is located.

4.) After obtaining their address, I will look it up on google maps. Not just to get directions, but to check out the general area. I turn on the satellite function and take a look at what the general area looks like. I also go into street view to have a look around the neighborhood. Again, you can gain a lot by these simple map views to see what area you'll be driving into.

5.) By this point I am very confident in my ability to gauge what kind of situation I'll be going into. If everything looks good, I proceed with the purchase. If there is a red flag anywhere I can at least call the seller and try to get any uncertainties cleared up. If they are willing to work with you, they are usually a stand up guy. If they don't want to work with you, you can always walk away.

It I ever buy or sell a game from any of you dudes, I promise not to try to rob you.

Please don't shoot me.

Yeah I didn't realize how well armed the Pinside crew is!

If you are surprised by that, you may be surprised at the amount of armed people in the general public. When you go to the store next time, look around and imagine to yourself that 25% of people you see are carrying a concealed handgun. You'd never know it though, and for some people, that ignorance is bliss.

Not doubting you, but that's an interesting statistic. Any supporting links?

I'm sure that varies greatly depending on where you live. Probably a lot less CC people in California than in Alabama for example

Perhaps...but even a state breakdown would be interesting to read...actually more interesting. One published statistic from 2014 is that 11.1 million people have carry permits in the US. That's only 3.5% of the populace, so if some places are at 25% then that would be interesting.

It varies by county, but you might be surprised that the actual number is a lot higher than you'd think. LOTS of new people here are getting their CCW's because of how quickly society is falling apart.

I'm carrying today.

Sorry, I should have clarified. My previous post is not based on a real statistic, but rather just something to think about in your own mind. As in, just look around and imagine to yourself a few people around you carrying a handgun. When previously you went into the store, it never would have crossed your mind. You assumed you were in a safe place without even a hint at someone being a "danger to you" just because they had a concealed handgun. If you reverse your thinking and mindset, suddenly the store maybe looks a little different. That John Smith over there before had no affect on you and you don't even give him a second look. Now if you imagine that same John Smith with a gun on his hip, does your perception of him change at all? He's still the same law abiding citizen he was if he wasn't carrying the gun.

I hope my message is coming across, sometimes it makes sense in your head but is hard to type out. In any case, I don't want to get into a big thing here. Just something to make you pause and think about.

Love my Ruger LCP 380 auto, very easy to conceal.

I had a pistol pointed at your avatar when you started typing...

Please leave your child at home. You don't want them seeing you shot. And you definitely don't want them seeing you shoot someone.

LTG : )

All this talk of guns is giving a whole new meaning to Skill Shot!

I believe All guns should be turned in and exchanged for hugs, then melted down to make pinballs, pinball parts, and various pinball related products!

Guns actually protect people from CL deals gone wrong.

Biggest problem with relying on a gun in a CL situation is that if it is indeed a setup, the criminals are going to have the advantage regarding timing, placement and concealment. In most cases, you'll know you need your gun when you suddenly see one pointed at you, at which point it is too late. You can be as vigilant as possible, but if the criminals are coordinated and have half a brain, you are at a significant disadvantage.

I've bought multiple pins off CL, and agree with prior posts - examine the ad, chat with the sellers, and walk if anything seems fishy.

Very good advice...as someone who carries I always try to evaluate the potential situation, but if someone is preemptively out to get you, the odds are against you.

lots of small peckers and big trucks around here also...

BTW, all their wifes are 10s in case you are wondering

Some people collect guns like we collect pinball machines. There are wide variances in firearm design and function, different manufacturers and styles that all feel differently in the way they operate and shoot. Some guns are historic and collectable, and hobbyists will obtain and restore them. For competitive-minded gun collectors, there are shooting and hunting tournaments to participate in.

Guns aren't evil, they're just a tool. Curious, what is your opinion on starter pistols and cap guns?

I got ya covered. lol

ive bought a lot off CL including pins

never had a bad experience but like others I did research and was cautious

mostly I meet people at walmarts

but there has been a few times people had me meet them at there house. If I was a robber it would have been to easy, some people are too trusting. I would never go inside only on there porch

I have come to find that most petty criminals are opportunists. They are looking for an easy target and something they can get away with quickly. When they are faced with adversity and resistance, they seem to suddenly become very cowardly. The notion that these criminals have orchestrated an elaborate scheme via months of planning to rob you is ill founded in my opinion. We see it a lot on TV and in movies, but of course real life is not always like the movies.

Here is a video as an example of some opportunists who are faced with some adversity:

In the video, two robbers enter a store and appear very well armed. Suddenly, unknowingly to the robbers, an elderly gentleman draws his concealed handgun and fires at the crooks. As you will see in the video, the criminals try to escape the store at the speed of light. They were looking for an easy score and did not want to encounter the resistance. The elderly gentleman is out numbered and out gunned in this situation. But even still, the act of fighting back has sent these two robbers heading for the exit.

There are a number of videos on YouTube where a law abiding citizen has had to draw their firearm in similar instances. Most outcomes are very similar in that the criminals are headed for the exit and don't want any part of it. Of course not every single case has the same outcome, but I think the majority of these kinds of videos end in the same fashion.