(Topic ID: 77881)

Cradling...BLEH


By RDReynolds

6 years ago



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  • 106 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by LOTR_breath
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 106 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 6 years ago

    Anyone else simply refuse to cradle?

    #2 6 years ago

    I rarely do it - I like to play off the momentum and just "feel the aim" as the ball comes down the flipper.

    37
    #3 6 years ago

    Anyone else simply refuse to play as well as they possibly can?

    It's a proven technique that the best players all use a lot, of course some more than others. That said, nothing wrong with playing how you wish to play. It's certainly fun to use the force and hit stuff on the fly.

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from TopJimmyCooks:

    It's a proven technique that the best players all use a lot, of course some more than others. That said, nothing wrong with playing how you wish to play.

    Yep. Many folks in my league don't cradle. But the best players in league do. If you want bigger scores, you have to cradle on some games.

    Quoted from Rarehero:

    I rarely do it - I like to play off the momentum and just "feel the aim" as the ball comes down the flipper.

    The game in your avatar is one of my favorite games to cradle on. You can post pass from either flipper, then either nail the spinner to light the scoop or you can shoot the ramp to build Crazy Chris value and light the extra ball.

    Quoted from RDReynolds:

    Anyone else simply refuse to cradle?

    You own three games with Fliptronic flippers. Far and away the best flippers ever in pinball. Put some new flipper rubbers on those games and give it another try. You have the best 'tool's to learn. Or not. d

    #5 6 years ago

    Does anyone refuse to nudge?

    32
    #6 6 years ago

    I refuse to flip or nudge. I've gotten frigging awesome at plunging.

    #8 6 years ago

    TigerLaw just nudged this thread.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from pingull:

    Does anyone refuse to nudge?

    I never have.It's just a game.

    #10 6 years ago

    Well, some of the best are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

    I can't recall what movie/documentary I was watching but it included the Sharps. Roger is a kinetic, flowing, shot on the fly player, whereas his sons cradle. All three can kick my azz on any day so I will have to say they're all right.

    #11 6 years ago

    I love a fast and loose game of pin with no craddling!
    Theyre not high scoring, but linking a pile of combos feels great.

    #12 6 years ago

    Honestly for me it depends on the game. I rarely cradle on my Shadow for instance. But I will sometimes if I can control the damn ball, if I want to maybe make an easy shot up to the Battlefield from the top of the right flipper.

    #13 6 years ago

    I think the longer you have been playing, the less need there is for cradling. One of my older machines, Magic Clock is the one that I will cradle on or I can't hit that moving target. The newer, faster machines I don't really feel the need. I let the geometry of the machine bring the ball to the flipper where I want it.

    As far as nudging, EMs can require a great deal to keep the ball in play, but after playing newer machines for a while, I don't feel as much of a need except at the outlanes.

    #14 6 years ago

    Someone should make a game with timed flippers that cut out after a couple seconds...or better yet, a random length of time. Man that'd be annoying but force you to keep it moving.

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from devlman:

    Someone should make a game with timed flippers that cut out after a couple seconds...or better yet, a random length of time. Man that'd be annoying but force you to keep it moving.

    May be obvious to state, but it's actually pretty cool when the witch throws "No Hold Flippers" at you on a WOZ multiball. Reverse flippers is just ridiculous though. I rarely cradle in STLE, but do all the time in LOTR. Depends on the game for sure. I don't understand why it would have a negative connotation??!!

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    The newer, faster machines I don't really feel the need. I let the geometry of the machine bring the ball to the flipper where I want it.

    Sure it's fun to shoot combos or orbits on newer games over and over, but it gets risky fast. Lots of sucker shots. Shooting the warp ramp on ST over and over is a blast, but once you miss, you have no idea where the ball is going. Same for looping orbits. Fun, but too risky.

    Worth mentioning that many newer Stern's lend themselves nicely to cradling. On ST, if you save your torpedoes, then start Vengeance multiball and cradle a ball on each flipper, you can use your chin to fire torpedoes until only one shot is needed to finish Vengeance (watch the damage gauge on the DMD). Then backhand the left ramp to start a combo (2X) and shoot Vengeance to collect your 10M points. Easy money. Also on ST, if you have 2 balls cradled on the left flipper, you can easily backhand the top one up into the saucer to collect a jackpot. On AC/DC, post passes are easy from either side and both ramps are easily backhanded from a cradled ball. Just about all the new Stern's allow easy post passes from at least one side. Cradle separations are also easy on many of the new games. If you own newer Stern's and don't cradle, you really should give it a try.

    protip: If you try the Vengeance chin trick on a location game, wash your chin thoroughly afterward with soap. You don't know where that punch it button has been. d

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    protip: If you try the Vengeance chin trick on a location game, wash your chin thoroughly afterward with soap. You don't know where that punch it button has been. d

    Since I'm male and tall, I just lean my hips forward and use my . . . well, never mind.

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Sure it's fun to shoot combos or orbits on newer games over and over, but it gets risky fast.

    To a point, yes. But all shots can be made without cradling. For the most part if it is getting out of control, I will slow the ball with the flipper, but then shoot as it is rolling back down from the inlane. Rarely do I feel the need to stop the ball completely, hold the ball with the flipper and size up the shot. I know where it needs to go, and I know the sweet spot on the flipper. If I was playing for money or some kind of trophy, I might alter my style. But i play for fun, and fun is the way I play.

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    To a point, yes. But all shots can be made without cradling.

    Making backhand shots on the fly ain't easy. And backhand shots have become very important in newer games. Not just for points, but also to progress and complete modes. A nice exception is the left ramp on AC/DC, which can be looped on the fly from the left flipper to quickly light Jam multiball.

    Quoted from o-din:

    But i play for fun, and fun is the way I play.

    I cradle plenty and I still have fun. It can get frustrating when you're first learning, but it's even more fun once you develop a new skill. Once you get good at controlling and cradling balls, you can quickly learn how to do post passes and cradle separations. Tap passes and Shatzing the inlanes takes a lot more practice, but simple cradling techniques can be learned pretty fast.

    #20 6 years ago

    Win

    Approach does not really matter as long as playing fair.

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    To a point, yes. But all shots can be made without cradling. For the most part if it is getting out of control, I will slow the ball with the flipper, but then shoot as it is rolling back down from the inlane. Rarely do I feel the need to stop the ball completely, hold the ball with the flipper and size up the shot. I know where it needs to go, and I know the sweet spot on the flipper. If I was playing for money or some kind of trophy, I might alter my style. But i play for fun, and fun is the way I play.

    Stopping the ball isn't about sizing up the shot as much as having a consistent sweet spot. If you always hit on the fly, the sweet spot for the same shot changes based on the speed the ball is moving, so you're shots are less consistent. From a stop the ball rolls down the flipper at the same rate of acceleration, making the sweet spot more on target and actually larger, more forgiving.

    Take the glass off and shoot a shot 50 times from a cradle & write down your success %, then play normally and try and hit same shot without stopping and have someone write down results after 50 shots. You'll be surprised at the difference.

    #22 6 years ago

    Those of us who grew up playing 2" flipper EM's tend to cradle less, as it was extremely difficult to hold the ball on most of those games, maybe that's why I prefer to flip on the fly. It's not a winning strategy in tournament play though as the margin for error is much smaller.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    On ST, if you save your torpedoes, then start Vengeance multiball and cradle a ball on each flipper, you can use your chin to fire torpedoes until only one shot is needed to finish Vengeance (watch the damage gauge on the DMD). Then backhand the left ramp to start a combo (2X) and shoot Vengeance to collect your 10M points. Easy money.

    I would love to see someone do this in competition... Streamed live... and see what the commentators say! That would be f'ing hilarious!!! LOL

    -Steve Ridge

    Post edited by VDrums2112 : Typical stupid typos!

    #24 6 years ago

    I have two styles of play.

    One style is just batting the ball around letting it flow around the playfield making shots that feel great.
    The other style (normally when my brain is fresh) is a more controlled play where I do a lot of cradling, lane passes, and bounce passes to line up the correct shots.

    One sip of an alcoholic beverage, and I'm stuck in style one for the duration of the evening.

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from VDrums2112:

    I would love to see someone do this in competition... Streamed live... and see what the commentators say! That would be f'ing hilarious!!! LOL

    I believe there's footage of someone (Steve Bowden, maybe?) at SPF Punching It with their forehead during multiball. Commentary was something along the lines of 'well, what else are you going to do?'.

    Demo Man also has this happen due to the secret jackpots in multiball which require two buttons to be pushed at once. If you're not playing with the triggers and you have balls trapped on one side you can use your chin to push one of the two buttons. Jason Werdrick did so during circuit final and again commentary was 'we've all done that at some point'.

    #26 6 years ago

    I see people who don't. I don't really understand why not, but to each their own I guess. Ball control is one of, if not THE, most important skill to have.

    #27 6 years ago

    I am a cradle whore......but I don’t take sips from a water bottle in between shots

    I am doing less of this now though, since I am implementing dead flipper bounces into my arsenal

    #28 6 years ago

    Very interesting all the views on it. I realized when someone noted backhanding that I do utilize that technique sometimes, which requires a cradle. So I guess I shouldn't say I NEVER do it, as that's untrue. I just do it very rarely.
    I think it just drives me crazy when I see folks that play doing nothing BUT cradling. I get it, it can lead to a bigger score if that's your technique, but it just isn't interesting to me to play or watch folks play that way.

    As for WOZ with its no cradle mode, WWF also has a mode where it punishes you for cradling. When you are Royal Rumble multi ball, if you keep the ball in play and do NOT cradle, it will start a countdown to get more balls in play. However, if you DO cradle, the countdown never starts.

    Interesting to me, because the shot around the house in WOZ is nearly identical to the upper PF shot in WWF as well. Hmmm...

    #29 6 years ago
    Quoted from pingull:

    Does anyone refuse to nudge?

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    Making backhand shots on the fly ain't easy. And backhand shots have become very important in newer games.

    I cradle the ball on Fireball to hit the backhand shot into the Odin.

    #31 6 years ago

    What's the point in "cradling" if it the "fastest" fan layout pin ever? Stop and go?

    Limited "cradling" for me.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from dgpinball:

    Those of us who grew up playing 2" flipper EM's tend to cradle less, as it was extremely difficult to hold the ball on most of those games, maybe that's why I prefer to flip on the fly.

    I grew up on 2" flippers and cradle now. It was an adjustment, but I'm definitely a better player now then I was back then. Worth noting that I generally don't cradle as much when playing with others socially. Excessive cradling is rude. Even in league, if we're running late, I probably cradle less.

    Quoted from VDrums2112:

    I would love to see someone do this in competition... Streamed live... and see what the commentators say! That would be f'ing hilarious!!! LOL

    I've done this a few times down at the mall when nobody was looking. Pretty easy to setup and do really. Save torpedoes, start Vengeance MB and get two balls under control before the ball saver runs out. If you get two balls on one flipper, do a cradle separation to get one on each flipper.

    What is hard is trying to look cool whilst using your chin launch said torpedoes. I'm thinking about getting a big chin stud to slam the button with. They do chin piercing, don't they?

    #33 6 years ago

    Cradling can make you feel like an idiot if you don't make your shots. You put all this thought into getting the ball on the preferred flipper, and then when you miss the shot, what was the point after all? I think you just have to push through that. Some shots will have to be made on the fly, though.

    Nudging is another thing that's tough to get into. My girlfriend won't try it. I just tell her one day she's going to get tired of watching outlane drains. At first, it doesn't seem like any of your attempts are meaningful or successful. All you can do is curse yourself and eventually you start being successful.

    #34 6 years ago

    The greats will tell you cradling is mandatory....for a big score. But flailing while being in the zone is where pinball nivana lives.

    #35 6 years ago

    I don't know how to nudge properly. But I do cradle, if I can get the ball under control. Still working on that last bit.

    #36 6 years ago

    Another truth about cradling is that it means you use the same spot on the flipper to make the same shot every time.
    Using geometry, the ball can come at the flipper from every direction and knowing when to hit the flipper before the ball arrives to send it in the proper direction is something that can only be accomplished by instinct. And when you just let your instincts take over, magic can happen. Kind of like hitting a baseball, but the ball is never out of the strike zone.

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from RDReynolds:

    As for WOZ with its no cradle mode, WWF also has a mode where it punishes you for cradling. When you are Royal Rumble multi ball, if you keep the ball in play and do NOT cradle, it will start a countdown to get more balls in play. However, if you DO cradle, the countdown never starts.

    Hurricane also punishes cradling during multiball. While cradling a ball during multiball, you do not build up your time you'll have multiplied playfield scoring (which follows multiball).

    #38 6 years ago

    I am an average player. I can catch and cradle a ball. All though I only do it around 1/3 of the time. To get the right shot. You need to control the ball. For the quick ramp shots, like ST I just go for the angle and hit the ball.
    In a geometry class in high school one of the kids asked out loud, "Why do need this stuff?". I quickly reminded him of pinball. The teacher laughed, then said, "Yes pinball has geometry".

    #39 6 years ago

    I cradle quite a bit, especially in games with a lot of short shots and to regain control. I do nudge on occasion but never while playing on some one else's machine.

    #40 6 years ago

    My wife is the only one "cradling balls" and I'm the only one giving out some good "nudging" and she loves it when I "flail" away"!

    #41 6 years ago

    I cradle but I can't seem to teach anyone else to do so. Especially when non-pinheads come over -- they hit both flippers at the same time and you can't teach them to use one at a time. You can tell them all you want, but in the end you just have to sit back and let them learn themselves.

    #42 6 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    My wife is the only one "cradling balls" and I'm the only one giving out some good "nudging" and but she loves it when I "flail away"!

    I knew that there would be jokes to be had with this, but I figured that pinheads were accustomed to the "ball" jokes for the most part and would just ignore the perverted undertones. I was wrong.

    #43 6 years ago

    Not a 'cradler'. I enjoy the free flowing kinetic action of the ball(s) in play. To each his own, but the stop and start of cradling (excessively) is maddening to watch and play behind.

    Control skills are great but let's keep the fun moving. I enjoy watching others have great play and feel good seeing clutch flipper saves and outlane nudges that keep a ball going, but cradling over and over again . . . might as well catch up on a few chapters of 'War and Peace' while waiting . . . but your mileage may vary. Keep flippin' . . . .

    #44 6 years ago

    I cradle often, nudge almost never...usually because I suck at nudging and wind up draining the ball anyways.

    #45 6 years ago

    I stop cradling when playing with friends, especially if my ball times are getting out of control, and/or they are complaining.

    But in tourney's, or practicing, or playing by myself, or with good players..... I cradle all day, e'er day.

    How else are you going to get better if you just refuse to use such an important skill?

    One of the most exciting things to me in pinball is controlling a ball on a flipper while making shots with a second.

    But I do get that certain players just don't think it is "fun". I would argue, it isn't fun until you start getting good at it, then it gets FUN.

    #46 6 years ago

    I started watching bowen's tutorials and his crazy scores, this changed my opinion on the "best method of play".

    #47 6 years ago

    For me if I'm going to have a huge score it will require me to get control of the ball via cradle from time to time. Which is a skill in and of itself not easy to accomplish all the time. I'm a big fan of the nudge and hate playing on pins set too tight which is one of the reasons I don't care to play in tournaments.

    #48 6 years ago

    Cradling is super fun to me. Especially when I'm in a three to four ball multi-ball mode. I love trying to keep as many balls in play at once, juggling like crazy. That's pretty exhilarating for me.

    In terms of higher level play though, cradling at least here and there is pretty important for consistency. If you are firing away on-the-fly all the time, you are going to get punished. Either you are going to hit the wrong shot, your timing may be off and the ball may not go all the way up a ramp, or you will hit some form of a post and the ball will likely fly towards the drain. Of course, that can happen even when you cradle a ball prior to shooting, but at least then you made a conscious effort to control the flow of the game and didn't leave the ball's outcome entirely to dumb luck.

    Some games are better for flow gameplay though than others, and even though I consider myself a very controlled player, on games like Star Trek, AC\DC, Rolling Stones and Spider Man, I purposely go for combos a lot as well (the ramps and orbits mostly). Those ramp shots generally aren't that difficult, and the combos feel good and they can pay off points-wise. Plus, going for combos and getting the flow going in those games opens up loop passing for those orbit shots, which is another skill that feels really good to do and requires some on-the-fly thinking.

    #49 6 years ago
    Quoted from Buffpac5:

    I cradle often, nudge almost never...usually because I suck at nudging and wind up draining the ball anyways.

    This.
    I kinda get ticked off when I get a game like the Road Show I used to own. Those coil stops are massive, almost preventing cradling because the flippers don't make a sharp enough angle. The Klondike EM I just picked is the same way. Oh well. I guess it creates more of a challenge because I've become so used to cradling.

    #50 6 years ago

    Haha - I suck at nudging too. I'm beyond horrible. I'm glad there are others out there. We should form a support group.

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