I am in the middle of breaking down my old playfield, i plan on putting the wiring harness in the dishwasher. Are there any parts on this playfield that cant be washed, ie. the hand mechanism box or the bookcase mechanism?

I would avoid this, you are likely to shrink and further break down the insulation (good god, if you do, don't put it on the dry cycle).

A better alternative is to get some unscented water wipes (baby wipes) and just wipe them down in and out.

Why is CPR's gray so much darker than the stock gray?

Dishwasher won’t hurt anything. I’ve washed harnesses, circuit boards, ramps etc in it. Just make sure everything is totally dry before putting power through it again and you’re good to go!

Honestly I haven't really inspected it yet ,
Those pics are from my old dirty phone camera . I would not use them as The standard in any way
And the lightning was terrible just FYI

I’m sure there are people who’ve put their dog in the dishwasher too and reportedly had no problems. Ultimately it affects the long term integrity of the harness. YMMV.

Paint on cpr playfields is awesome compared to the crap we’re taking out. Be happy someone helped us out at a great price. Mine isn’t a mint CQ pin with a worn out playfield. But will be super nice with a cpr playfield and a unrestored cabinet when done. Thank you CPR

It's not paint. It's ink. There IS a difference.

Can’t wait for mine !
Going to love to the playfield swap.
I paid January 13 for 2,how much longer you guys think I have to wait ?
Thanks

CPR is in Canada.

No one can tell you how long US Customs will take to clear your package.

The last couple of fields I bought from CPR took between 7 and 10 full days to arrive, including the time to clear customs. They will send you a tracking number via UPS. The package is shipped from Full Tilt Pinball. If you paid via PayPal the tracking number will appear there too.

They are getting the fields back from their clearcoater in batches so you may have to wait until the next batch comes in. It's worth the wait. Hands down CPR's best effort to date.

FINAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE CPR TAF PLAYFIELD RUN:

The final shipments to the very last of the TAF Waiting List went out in February, completing our service to the vast Preorder and Waiting Lists we had collected for 2+ years for this crucial playfield run. We consider those who "raised their hands" to be served and settled at this point. Nobody left to formally contact. No TAF playfields left coming thru clearcoat. Those few who remained silent, and didn't follow through, we will no longer hold on for at this point.

Thus tonight, the remaining stock of the TAF playfields that were abandoned are now public on our web site, open to general sales until they are gone.

Anybody who never previously knew of the run, never signed up, just got the game, etc... if you're out there, the next weeks/months will be a crucial time to make a decision on these. We all know how dry the hobby was for TAF playfield prospects the last 7-8 years... we're going to be headed back into that era (likely forevermore, considering the complexity/cost of the licensing) where 'unobtanium' will be a dirty word for these, probably starting in 2019. We'll all be talking about how back in early 2018, these were sitting available, openly for sale at original prices. The good ol' days

So just throwing this announcement out there, as a placeholder of this point in time. Anybody who missed out, anybody who is planning on buying a TAF in the future, or even anybody who wants to have one on hand for trade bait when the hobby goes dry of these and prices rocket... govern yourselves accordingly. We don't know how long these are going to be around.

NOW AVAILABLE IN THE CPR STORE: (full gallery posted)

http://www.classicplayfields.com/store-playfields.html

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

addams01.jpg

Big thanks to Kevin 'n co for all your hard work.

In making supernice repro parts.

Keep up your good work forever.

Any chance you will respond to those having problems getting a good playfield from you? Seems like quality control and communications are lacking on this playfield run.
In the pictures you can see the area was touched up and a blob of clear is sticking up and out over the edge. What happens to the clear after the ball impacts this area a bit? I'm concerned it with chip out and the rest of the clear will start seperating from the top surface of the playfield.

20180128_104518[9463] (resized).jpg20180128_205822[9466] (resized).jpg

Added over 6 years ago: This playfield was branded a gold quality!

Bob,

You had emailed me with these pictures, telling me that you are away and somebody at home was inspecting it for you and taking these pix for you. Did you not get my response? I had been waiting for you to get home after your travels, so you could see it for yourself and re-approach me first hand... Because what 'they' are telling you / showing you is not worth any alarm. It's not a touchup. Our clearcoat does not separate from the surface. I wanted you to bear witness, not go through a third party for testimony. I assure you, Bob... your playfield is gorgeous.

Let me know if you are home yet or not, I would rather you physically WITH the playfield. I was waiting for your next email to alert me.

Since you are showing the world now, I will explain their pix to everybody: The orange layer artwork on the original film, is a complete curve that goes ACROSS that cutout in the wood. The curve cut is not knocked out of the artwork. So look at the pictures again, and imagine an orange ring of that width, stamping down from a screen across that cutout, and lifting back up... After repeated impressions, a natural thickness forms on the screen in that spot, with ink that is not transferred completely impression to impression, right at the edge. So as the run continues, you get a "smush" off the edge of the cutout. Normally it doesn't matter if an ink is completely opaque... nobody can perceive the "smush" being basically double-thick around that edge IF the ink is opaque... because the tone won't change.

BUT in this case, the hot orange is a semi-transparent ink. The normal screened thickness produces the hot orange you see everywhere... but if it applies slightly thicker (like at this "smush" point), it tones slightly darker (less white is visible from below).

This barely-visible tone difference is likely on that spot on the vast majority of them. It's on mine ! But you really have to illuminate the area (flash, bright lights) for it to stand out. Otherwise, it all looks like hot orange.

It's not going to chip off. It's only a slight ink thickness difference at that edgepoint. This is the world of classic analog silkscreening onto milled/shaped wood. I wish I didn't have to get all scientific about it, sorry to bore everybody.

The area is completely hidden, unless one watches gameplay with their cheek against the backbox looking down in there. I cannot stress how un-apparent that slightly darker orange edge is in real life, regular lighting. Out of hundreds and hundreds of TAF's shipped, this was it's only mention. Nothing wrong with mentioning, don't get me wrong. It's just the running to Pinside to post some curious pix with quality controversy - people LOVE that stuff. It's the potential for drama that irks me, that's all. Multiple hundreds made and shipped, the dozen with little blems found across 5 months, get all the attention and clicks. Tis the way of the internet these days

You have my private email address to my home office - shoot me an email there when you are home from your travels. Thx

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

Thanks for the informative response! I sent you an e-mail!

this pf looks great! I am not sure what you are seeing but that appears to be the thing hole which is behind everything and not even visible in the game.

Just install it an enjoy. CPR pfs have held up VERY well in the games I have installed them in. I have never seen any clear to chip off or other issues.

I have a CPR "Gold" Addams up for sale in the Marketplace for $750.00 OBO. I'm not satisfied with the so-called "Gold" quality, but maybe someone else will be. Photos have been posted.

Same with me, I was not happy with my eraly Gold. But to be fair ... CPR took care and gave back some money. A friend of mine ordered 3 GOLD and all had also issues. I dont know what happened there. On my playfield where white sprenkles all over and a missprint on Fester in the lower area. The coat was okay but if I use a repro playfield it will get extra clear and finish.

It depens from playfield to playfield .. TOAN has some mis printings and a cheap thin coat, FT was perfect in print and coat. PinBot silver was a nightmare, one inserts was loose the coar cracked. had to glue in the inserts again and bring new coat on .. that was extra 350 Euro to the price of the playfield.

The descission , what is a Gold, what is a Silver ... I do not understand it. Once send to Europe neraly nobody will be willing to send it back to the US.

But ... I am really happy that CPR takes care for new playfields and is supporting the pinheads for yeras. Same to Mirco ... if I remember the old days ... you got NOS or nothing. So now we have luxury problems ....
In my TAF is still a IPB repro and I am still happy with it.

Just my 5 Cent ...

I had IPB repros that were better than these CPR golds. At least the two that I received. My first CPR gold had issues with black lines in the orange areas and the black lines around the arrow as shown in the pictures. The second had issues as shown in my previous post and I'm being told to live with them.

Arrow (resized).jpg

The Power (resized).jpg

This was an additional area in my second gold playfield with black ink smudges under the clear.

Addams Roll Over (resized).jpg

Maybe time to adjust your expectations. Little nitpicky imperfections. Not seeing anything terrible here.

Hate to have to agree, but.. I agree. Back when you could order a new TAF playfield straight from your distributor, you'd be lucky to have one with just those few little 'oopses'.

In fact, I believe I paid $375 or so for my NOS TAF playfield back then. With inflation, that's about $650 in today's dollars after inflation. So price really hasn't changed that much either.

Technically thats how much they cost now, before the 20% PPS fee and the TAF foundation fee.

I’m super happy with the 2 CPR golds I bought. Very happy to have the opportunity to bring my TAF back to life , FINALLY after bidding on several NOS playfields on EBay at a much higher price( that still needed to be spend out for re clearing). Thanks Kevin and CPR team

Guys,

I understand people being "nitpicky" (not my word) and so be it. The hobby is vast and wide with its expectations. Seemingly playfields are still one of those "holy items" that have been bred over time to be "grail" pieces... and combined with that ideology, the high-end restorers are out there doing absolute 1-on-1 magic with playfield restorations (and 6-12 month clearcoat processes)... it's led to this vision of perfectionism that just won't die. We've experienced it since we started in 2004. I don't see it going away any time soon. But it's OK. It's out there. It's just a weeee bit off from reality. Even if the individual perfectionist was handed the keys to CPR for a year to try themselves. They'd learn, and learn quick

What happens is exactly what you see here... the rare exceptions get trotted out for scrutiny and critique - BUT are made to passively appear as "the norm". As if this is "what to be expected" or "standard fare" with CPR playfields, or repro playfields in general. That is something I simply MUST comment upon.

Think about it this way: For the single examples shown here... I can show you 100+ that DON'T have those blems. The reality is the ratios in real life are staggeringly the opposite of the meme being portrayed (for better or worse) here, when only the exceptions get posted - not the norm.

Of course nobody is posting closeups of when everything is fine Why would anybody take a picture with no issues? Sure, there have been people in this very thread that have posted their happy open-box joy pix. But it's rare people come to give happy reviews. That's the internet in general. Displeasure is a much much much higher motivator. We get that. We also want readers to clearly understand that too.

There were hundreds of CPR TAFs made and shipped. You are seeing a dozen chronicled in this thread with uncaught blems - that in almost all cases, by customer request, were flipped with another one in exchange. I do all the grading personally - and even my eyes miss things that don't stand out.

Just remember that these are (mini-)mass production items at their core - not guru artisan one-offs. While we certainly strive for the best possible outcome (and I truly believe we get there), these are amazing results, based on the vast majority of the runs. Aside from a CNC machine, these are essentially a batch of individual handmade items. Like acoustic guitars in batches of 100-200. Far too little to be fully automated mass production, but too many to be artisan one-offs. Therefore we cannot enter the space, or meet the expectations of the aftermarket restorers/clearcoaters - who spend 6-12 months babying ONE playfield for a customer. Delivering 100.00% "perfection" . It just can't and won't happen. BUT - we can come damn close. Really damn close. Every playfield travels back and forth through a beastly antique classic silkscreen press, 8-16 times (depending on layers in the artwork). Prior to even silkscreening, there is a ton of handling and transport around between production steps. What I'm trying to express is the sheer amount of careful journeys that these boards go through. Careful as we are, and as semi-precise as analog silkscreening is, there will always be little nits and blems here and there. ALWAYS. No producer is immune from them. No producer. In fact, while we're all discussing cosmetics here right now - we tend to forget structure. Somebody mentioned IPB TAF playfields... well please note their CNC cut was done with a single (large) router bit (not 6 different bits, like ours)... so a lot of the cutouts are simply the wrong shape (most notably the chair hole), and from what I have been told - none of their openings were beveled for ball entry, as on the originals. Plus no IPB playfield was ever dimpled - front OR back. None I have ever seen , anyway. I won't even comment on the quality/material/origin of IPB's gameboard wood... So there is a lot more to this than cosmetics. We were determined to be the first and last TAF repro run that got everything right, as best as we could. The original/best artwork, the right/exact colors, the right/best wood, the right/original-tool inserts, and the exact milling/CNC cut. All other runs, before and now, simply don't have all those down. From what I have been told, even the 'other' TAF run out there right now, doesn't have proper insert installation... all the insert holes on those are thru-holes (like bulb holes), and the inserts aren't backed by a traditional wood lip foundation. That is a future ticking time bomb waiting to happen. Please everybody, just know when CPR is on the case, we're a team of 9 dedicated to producing the best & most thorough authentic pieces we can yield. Nothing has changed in 14 years. But everything is built oldschool and original. Hands-on and loud/dirty. The way it should be.

The meme of a virtually perfect & gorgeous playfield being discovered with an eyelash-sized blem suddenly being "junk" or "bad QC" and suddenly undesirable , written off as tainting the whole playfield as an overall poor quality piece (when our heart and soul actually went into it, equal to all the others)... is a meme that must die. Soon. It's just not reality. I'd challenge anybody to go visit the 30+year commercial/professional veterans at CCC, and start peeking through their racks of brand new Stern playfields... let me know what you think. You'll be surprised that a little shop up in Canada doing repro from scratch actually blows their consistency out of the water... and they are a FACTORY with a legacy in the industry, history, and staff of dozens working on their stuff fulltime. They are supposed to be the professionals! I mean... they are right? But lo and behold - they can't manage to get a playfield out the door that doesn't have numerous little cosmetic blems of dirt, debris, dropouts, blotches, and trash in the clearcoat. Almost. every. single. one.

Hundreds of CPR TAFs are out there now. You wont' really hear from many of the other owners who have nothing to show. This is the reason I have to speak up and at least balance the perspective a little bit from our side. These little blems shown above, are individual (non-repeated) occurrences in hundreds made... so I want to snuff out any FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) that this is anything to expect as the norm. I've spoken up in past years with this same message.

The general ongoing rule for receiving a new CPR playfield: If you get a cosmetic or structural blem that you think we didn't catch, want to dispute, then take some pictures, email them to us stating your case, and we'll take next steps to make you happy. That may mean a variety of solutions. The most common one is simply exchanging the playfield for another one. Right down to a no-quibble full-money-back return. So everybody is free to completely abort, if necessary. We'll never stick a person with their playfield(s) if they aren't happy.

KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
http://www.classicplayfields.com

Yes, my TAF repro gold is B-E-A-U-T-F-U-L!! CPR did a great job on these. I have yet to install it however...
p

I think you do a excellent job Kevin. The original manufactures of TAF playfields had blems also. Most of those made it into games without anyone knowing. My TAF playfield is nothing but spectacular and I look forward to owning a game to install it in someday. Thanks for the great work cpr puts into every playfield they produce. I look forward to the Banzai run playfield when the time comes.

Then why is it so difficult for me to get one of these 100+? Why am I two for two on the picky blem side.

The people saying this are probably the people beating guys up on price when they sell a restored game with one of these playfields in it or just outright selling the playfield. I've had playfields with small blems for sale at cost and they didn't move for years. A Simpsons comes to mind with a Bill Davis clearcoat. It sat on E-Bay for two years at $650. It had a small area of damage on the side of the playfield in the back, not seen when installed in a game.

CPR is a small shop and it is expected they would have more control over their production quality.

Does anyone who is happy with their gold and isn't so picky wan't to trade me?

Easy to give opinions when you're one of the lucky 100+!

You’re missing his point - small shop, large shop , it doesn’t matter — there’s always going to be little nit picky things on Playfields and if your extremely freaking anal you’ll probably find them. Omg - are you going to install the Playfield and then never play a game and just turn it on to see blinkly lights or are you going to play the damn thing and forget in a minute that there is a tiny blemish on a mm of the Playfield?

CPR does a huge huge service to the community - it bums me out to see people bitching about such tiny problems from a company that is essentially a couple hobbyists giving something back to the rest of us. There needs to be some perspective here.

The point is in the old days these were made for production line commercial machines. The games were being massed produced at a rapid pace. The purpose was to make money and be disposed of. The market has changed and so has the requirements and expectations of that market. Enjoy your games in the condition and way that you like. I don't try to tell others how or what they should do with their money and games.

If this is not a problem for you I'm not sure why you are you actually interested and commenting on this post.

I amended my post to clarify. I bought a gold as well. It seems to be a problem for a very very small amount of of purchasers. What do you want cpr to do- keep sending you Playfields? If it’s a real issue for you fine — send it back and be done with it. You’re right, it’s a different market now with people collecting machines as works of art but the manufacturing process hasn’t changed that much - these aren’t one-offs with 100% perfection and cpr doesn’t market them as such. If you want a 99% perfect Playfield you’re good to go. I don’t think that the mojoroty of purchasers stood over their Playfield with a magnifying glass and drafting light scrutinizing every millimeter- If they all did probably everyone would find some little imperfection. Making these all “perfect” is just near impossible.

That said, I’m sorry you’re not happy- we all have different expectations. If I still had mine I’d consider trading you. What I saw didn’t bother me.

these are games to be played, not museum pieces
a small blemish does not detract from a fun game

Everyone has different expectations! That's why they're three grades. That is why people start these threads to keep check on quality concerns. If people order golds they could expect something like this. If this is not what they would accept. Now they can see for themselves and decide. Grade and quality are important. If they weren't CPR would not have three grades and Rick at planetary would not charge $50 to pre-screen a field for customers. There would also be no need for the guys doing playfield touch up and clearcoats to these and other new playfields.

Why don't people with gold playfields who are not so picky just order bronze grade. LOL! This would give the picky people more golds in the pool for CPR to ship.

If they only have a hand fool of these issues. Why is it so hard to replace the problem playfields for the few with a better one. If that was done there would be no issue for any customers and CPR.

Obviously our expectations are different! Thanks for pointing this out!

What I wanted Kevin to do was take a few minutes to examine the second playfield before he sent it. Knowing it was a replacement and I'm one of those picky buyers. All of this could have been avoided in the first place.

ok
look hard enough you will find faults anywhere
if you dont like Kevins QC, then dont buy.
simples

Maybe CPR needs a "Platinum Class" of playfield for the most discriminating buyer. Cost an extra $50-$100 bucks but it is gone through by Kevin individually and graded as perfect. Just a thought.

This is why:

When I claim something like "for every playfield's wee blem, there are 100+ that don't have that exact wee blem"... I am indeed being true.

But remember I'm talking about the specific blem itself.

Let me put it this way for everybody: If I send somebody any other playfield, as a exchange, to eliminate that single found blem (that's not on any of the others) ... then we can just end up back at square one with a completely different wee blem found on the replacement. That wee blem equally doesn't appear on any of the others in the 100+, as I claim. So to replace the replacement playfield, with yet another playfield, without THAT wee blem... the third playfield exchange won't have it... but yet another completely different wee blem someplace else could be found on the third one. And so on...

What is being proposed / theorised here, is a playfield that took 13-of-13 completely 100.00% flawless silkscreen hits. (Say, in the case of TAF) Top to bottom, left to right, on ALL 13 hits, across every square millimeter.

That is rare. Maybe 1 or 2 out of 100 turn out that way. I suppose, just by odds, they can and do exist - but they are random occurrences. Finding them among each theoretical 100+ made is another story. Since all the playfields virtually look the same, it's a needle in haystack type of thing.

In fact, those "cherries" in the run that are indeed 100.00% perfect could stand to be made their own grade - such as "CPR Platinum - flawless grade" - and sold as rare premium pieces, at rare premium prices.

But we don't. They go out as golds thus far. I don't plan on creating (or pricing) a "flawless grade". The first 2 or 3 guys chronologically on the preorder would snatch them up anyway (the ones in position 1-2-3)... Then what...

You are completely entitled to your personal expectations. My observation is that based on your expectations, you may not want to buy any reproduction playfields.

Simple reality is that the vast majority of people dont have the same expectations as you do. Majority seem to be VERY happy that TAF pfs are available and the quality they received.

Again, you are completely right in your expectations just reality that few appear to be able to make a production product to your desires.

I am curious if you own any newer Stern games or CGC remakes? Their pf quality is really bad compared to what CPR puts out.

Market has changed since '99 from primarily playing to collecting and adorning, prices have risen and with it so have buyer expectations.

If CPR released a SLE deluxe faultless version for double the market rate they would all sell out.

No I don't have any of the CGC or newer Sterns. I realize they have problems too! I have stacks of playfields bought from CPR over the years. I was a buyer of the first playfield they made. I know what to expect from them!

I bought playfields from the original manufacturers back in the day and IPB. I remember the beating the community gave Gene and Kim over their quality. I also had many conversations with them over their frustration with meeting customers expectation. I know Kim started making it her personal goal to hand pick through them and get the best playfields sent to customers she could. Gene started bringing them to shows and letting the customers pick for themselves.

Kevin and I have exchanged ideas on this and he knows where I'm coming from. My main concern was the physical durability of that clear on the saucer edge and how it would affect future wear. I agree the other areas are not a major concern. I was in no hurry to get my playfield! I told him on several occasions to take his time and pick me a good one. To me it seemed like those request fell on deaf ears. No responses were received after sending two e-mails. Only as a result of this post did I get a reply.

Seems to me he's taken more time to respond here than it would have taken to personally hand pick a good playfield for a long time customer.

Do to the special UV ink used for the orange, there is no way for the playfield restorers to correctly match this area when doing touch ups.

I would be more than happy to pay a little more for the quality I want. I thought that's what the gold was! How many grades do you really need if you're running tight tolerances and good QC? How about gold being the cream of the crop, silver has slight nits, and bronze has the rest of the flaws? I might be in the minority here again but that is how I looked at the grading system.

Maybe take a little more time with a replacement playfield, take some pictures and send to the customer. I have never personally handled my playfields. These flaws were seen in pictures sent to me of the playfields. It took me all of 1 minute to notice them. It really wasn't difficult!

I'm picky but I'm also reasonable, I've kept playfields with flaws in areas not affected by wear or in places that were noticeable when installed.

I've never had a customer of mine complain about me being to picky.

I bought a silver TAF, for a future machine. I also bought a Cyclone silver and plastics for my trashed playfield. I am just happy someone is making these reproductions! Thank you CPR!

@Orbian: You write that you are buying repro playfields for years and that you expect perfect quality.
Than you have to know that all repro playfields need extra work with the clearcoat. it is not possible to bring on industrial coat in a wy that collectors like you are satisfied. Thats a fact. At least you have to finish the playfields , that is what CPR also stated on their webpage. I had 10 years a little business with restoring and clearcoating playfields ... I have pictures when I had up to 5 new repro playfields for extra coat and finishing. So no new playfield, even NOS, is 100% perfect from stock but most pinheads are happy with this quality because EVERY new playfield is much much better than the worn originals.
In Europe is also a "scene" which never ever would use a repro playfield , this guys are buying nice used playfields and let them restore for hell lot of money. They prefer renovated originals , reason is mostly they will not get craters from playing due they are really dried and the wood is compressed from all the years.

I am happy that there is a bandwith of titles available as repro playfields. I am also happy that there are now 3 manufacturers making titles ... so a little competition might be great for customers.