(Topic ID: 271423)

CPR star rollover problems

By Mk1Mod0

4 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Garrett
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    Star button Before the undercut (resized).png
    Star button AFTER undercut.  Much better. (resized).png
    This was a test on an old star button, undercutting the star button so it would fit further down in the star insert. (resized).p
    IMG_8954 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_8955 (resized).jpeg
    20240214_093237 (resized).jpg
    Clear or plastic?  Star button still stands proud of the playfield. (resized).png
    20442-03-1000(1) (resized).jpg
    New CPR Rollover Insert Depth (resized).png
    New CPR Rollover Insert with Star Button (resized).png
    New CPR Rollover Insert - Cleaned (resized).png
    Original Rollover Insert Depth (resized).png
    Original Rollover Insert (resized).png
    rollover (resized).jpg
    IMG_2100 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2101 (resized).JPG
    #1 4 years ago

    This is NOT, I repeat NOT to become a CPR slam thread. I am very pleased with their products and have a singular issue I am trying to resolve.

    Populating my first CPR repro and here's the problem I am having. The star rollover inserts were clogged pretty badly with clear coat. Not so bad if there's one or two but on BOPP there are 10. After cleaning them up as best I could, my test star still will not run flush to the playfield. After checking a bunch of my other populated fields I find it consistent that the star will go flush when rolled over. Makes sense as otherwise a direct hit would launch the ball. Not something I want to have happen. So the question I have is should it be flush? If not, is it the insert or the star? I have new stars from two different sources and compared them to some originals and they are identical. Any positive input would be appreciated.

    IMG_2099 (resized).JPGIMG_2099 (resized).JPGIMG_2100 (resized).JPGIMG_2100 (resized).JPGIMG_2101 (resized).JPGIMG_2101 (resized).JPG
    #2 4 years ago

    I did 3 things:
    Trimmed the holes as directed
    Put in trimmed down stars that didn't reach to the ends
    Used a very sharp exacto to trim around stars that still stuck after that. I would shave the insert until the star moved freely.

    I probably wasted as many stars as I left installed doing a captain fantastic with 8 rollovers

    #3 4 years ago

    I have not had the opportunity to use a cpr playfield, but in doing some of my own clearing with star rollovers one area that might need to be looked at is circled below, the bottom of the slot around the center. I did not see that addressed in the cpr instructions i found online. I used a fresh Xacto to cut and clear out that area to allow them to fully seat.

    rollover (resized).jpgrollover (resized).jpg
    #4 4 years ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Put in trimmed down stars that didn't reach to the ends

    You trimmed the white star part? Is that what you are saying?

    Quoted from BorgDog:

    one area that might need to be looked at is circled below,

    Right. I figured that was the biggest problem and cleaned it up as best I could.

    Thanks for the input, guys.

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

    You trimmed the white star part? Is that what you are saying?

    A little figured it was less destructive than the insert

    #6 4 years ago

    You need to get some file files or a dremel with a diamond tip grinder and clean them out. It usually takes me 15 to 20 mins per insert to get them moving properly. The small files are the key.

    #7 4 years ago

    I cannot understand why they dont put upside down stars in those when applying cc. Would save SO much trouble.

    3 years later
    #8 5 months ago

    Three years later and this still seems to be a very common issue that CPR simply does not want or cannot address. I have cleaned the inserts as thoroughly as I can. In my case I used fine sand paper and wet sanded the insert's star points to clean them out and then a small hobby scraper to clean the center area which as already pretty clean. Yet the Star buttons still sit proud. The issue as I see it is the rollover inserts CPR is using are over a millimeter more shallow that old rollover inserts (see pictures). If this is a common thing across the industry a new Star button needs to be available to account for this.

    Reading the thread here, cutting or trimming the Star button is a no. There is no effective way to do this and make the star button look good. Might be good enough for you, but not good enough for everyone.

    Using a Dremel on the rollover insert? Not a chance, that is a high risk proposition on a $800 product that should have accounted for this from the get go.

    I have an email into CPR. I'm not happy right now. I'm under a tight deadline and this is just stupid BS.

    I'm open to ideas.
    New CPR Rollover Insert - Cleaned (resized).pngNew CPR Rollover Insert - Cleaned (resized).pngNew CPR Rollover Insert Depth (resized).pngNew CPR Rollover Insert Depth (resized).pngNew CPR Rollover Insert with Star Button (resized).pngNew CPR Rollover Insert with Star Button (resized).pngOriginal Rollover Insert (resized).pngOriginal Rollover Insert (resized).pngOriginal Rollover Insert Depth (resized).pngOriginal Rollover Insert Depth (resized).png

    #9 5 months ago

    I have had the same issues with both my Playboy and recently Star Trek game. What worked for me was the bunch of mini grinding tools that I bought from Ron Kruzman for the playboy PF I got from him. As long as one is careful you can make quick work if all the clear that gets in there and chokes down the opening.

    Agree that this should be dealt with but until that time I at least found a work around. Thank you Ron

    #10 5 months ago
    Quoted from GPS:

    I have had the same issues with both my Playboy and recently Star Trek game. What worked for me was the bunch of mini grinding tools that I bought from Ron Kruzman for the playboy PF I got from him. As long as one is careful you can make quick work if all the clear that gets in there and chokes down the opening.
    Agree that this should be dealt with but until that time I at least found a work around. Thank you Ron

    In my case I don't see any clear left and I don't want to grind or scrape away plastic that is required to hold the insert together. You can see the picture of the cleaned insert, thoughts?

    Thanks

    #11 5 months ago

    I don’t think that I ever ground away any of the actual body. I could “feel” when I had gone through the clear and had come against the plastic of the insert. If the insert though is indeed smaller than it was previously I don’t know what the answer would be

    #12 5 months ago

    It is a pain but very doable. I wouldn't recommend a Dremel or sandpaper. Both have risks. You might slip with a Dremel or sandpaper grit will dull your finish. I use a sharp Xacto knife to go after the problem areas. I am basically removing enough debris to make room for a small metal hobby file. You can actually make pretty quick work of it after the file fits into the star slots. Clear and plastic feel different when sanding. Just stop when you hit plastic. I also spray a little Novus 1 in the area just to lubricate things a bit. It is like wet sanding with a metal file. The key to success is the ridged metal file.

    20442-03-1000(1) (resized).jpg20442-03-1000(1) (resized).jpg
    #13 5 months ago
    Quoted from GPS:

    I don’t think that I ever ground away any of the actual body. I could “feel” when I had gone through the clear and had come against the plastic of the insert. If the insert though is indeed smaller than it was previously I don’t know what the answer would be

    Yes, no joke, I am now literally scraping away plastic and not clear. I could also feel the difference. It also wasn't red scrapings as it is now. Something seems to be amiss but all the advice I have received is "keep scraping".

    I've looked at what is left and there isn't much left holding the center piece on. Maybe 2 to 2.5 mm of plastic (see pic). This is BS and I suspect CPR is going to say the same thing.

    Clear or plastic?  Star button still stands proud of the playfield. (resized).pngClear or plastic? Star button still stands proud of the playfield. (resized).png
    #14 5 months ago
    Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

    It is a pain but very doable. I wouldn't recommend a Dremel or sandpaper. Both have risks. You might slip with a Dremel or sandpaper grit will dull your finish. I use a sharp Xacto knife to go after the problem areas. I am basically removing enough debris to make room for a small metal hobby file. You can actually make pretty quick work of it after the file fits into the star slots. Clear and plastic feel different when sanding. Just stop when you hit plastic. I also spray a little Novus 1 in the area just to lubricate things a bit. It is like wet sanding with a metal file. The key to success is the ridged metal file.
    [quoted image]

    Mad Dog, first thank you, my problem isn't the star slots. I used fine wet sand paper to address those in short order. The problem I have is where the star button rests on the center. I've scraped to raw plastic and beyond and the star buttons are still over a mm proud of the playfield. I've even tried sanding the bottoms of the star buttons, which is very slow and hasn't helped much.

    Perhaps I'm missing something, but I honestly don't see what.

    #15 5 months ago

    I’ve been considering using the magnetic rollover switches by M&M Creations. At $30 a switch though it will be a last resort if I don’t like how the rollovers fit/play on a reproduction playfield. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mampm-creations-mrs-catalog

    Another option perhaps… have you considered 3D printing your own rollovers and making the arms of the rollover a little thinner?

    #16 5 months ago

    Yeah, sadly there has been no improvement. I purchased a Spectrum last year. 10 rollovers, 10 problems.

    I am testing out the M&M MRS switch in the EBD I am building up.

    Throughout this whole ordeal I kept comparing the new white inserts I got in the new CPR VS some old Ballys and came to the same conclusion - the star inserts are not the same. In the old ones the white star sits nice and flush. In the new ones it sits proud threatening severe ball hop. Similar, but NOT the same.

    Shawn

    #17 5 months ago

    These are the tools I used to clean my CPR star rollovers allowing the insert to move freely. Flatfile to clear slots and a 3/16" drill bit, hand turned, to clear the center hole.

    20240214_093237 (resized).jpg20240214_093237 (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #18 4 months ago
    Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

    Yeah, sadly there has been no improvement. I purchased a Spectrum last year. 10 rollovers, 10 problems.
    I am testing out the M&M MRS switch in the EBD I am building up.
    Throughout this whole ordeal I kept comparing the new white inserts I got in the new CPR VS some old Ballys and came to the same conclusion - the star inserts are not the same. In the old ones the white star sits nice and flush. In the new ones it sits proud threatening severe ball hop. Similar, but NOT the same.
    Shawn

    I noticed the same thing and would just use the old ones. Cutting and sanding the star grooves and the center whole is a huge pain. In the end they still don’t register reliably. The MMR switch is simple and perfect. The diode is built into the switch. I no longer try to install old star switches.

    IMG_8954 (resized).jpegIMG_8954 (resized).jpegIMG_8955 (resized).jpegIMG_8955 (resized).jpeg
    2 weeks later
    #19 4 months ago
    Quoted from pindel:

    I noticed the same thing and would just use the old ones. Cutting and sanding the star grooves and the center whole is a huge pain. In the end they still don’t register reliably. The MMR switch is simple and perfect. The diode is built into the switch. I no longer try to install old star switches.[quoted image][quoted image]

    These still wouldn't have solved my problem as the star button was about 1/8" proud of the hole and that's with 100% of the clear and some plastic removed. The problem with this is the star is diverting the ball as the ball hits the star button. It's a speed bump.

    What I ended up doing was this (see picture). I under cut each star button with a Dremel so it would fit further down in the star insert. The picture was the test/proof of concept using an old star button. While this worked it was a huge PITA and you can see the cutouts from the top side of the playfield, though you really have to scrutinize it.

    The main issue with this is that there is no simply, buy and replace option for future owners. As such it's not really a viable solution IMHO, but what option did I have?

    Star button AFTER undercut.  Much better. (resized).pngStar button AFTER undercut. Much better. (resized).pngStar button Before the undercut (resized).pngStar button Before the undercut (resized).pngThis was a test on an old star button, undercutting the star button so it would fit further down in the star insert. (resized).pThis was a test on an old star button, undercutting the star button so it would fit further down in the star insert. (resized).p
    #20 4 months ago

    Top side of the stars need to be flat and not rounded. Possible to sand them flat in the proud area?

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