(Topic ID: 237367)

CPR playfield preorders are meaningless


By tomdrum

50 days ago



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  • Latest reply 14 days ago by CPR
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#101 48 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

Pookycade;
In your case with Xenon, I thought I fully explained this already but.... the run I made was only about 1/3 of the run and its only what I had materials for at the time. It was never going to be the entire run, I did the partial run to keep the guys employed using materials I already had on hand. I was planning on cutting the 30 PFs and then just keeping them under wraps until we received the rest of the materials and cut and glued the rest of the run. We would then print them all at once..... but, Kevin decided that he had a bit of a space in the production and went ahead and printed the ones we had ready to print, with the idea of printing the rest once we had them ready. So I understand you're upset you didn't get one of the initial part of the run but you were probably not in the first 30 guys who ordered. The rest of the materials came in and the PFs were cut and glued months ago. We are printing them this PF this coming week, silk screen by the way! Its is fully likely that you will get yours from this section of the run. The rest of the XENON run should be shipping in about 3-4 weeks.
That being said, we are a tiny operation, we finance each product on the sales of the last and on my home equity line of credit. Having anything more than a few PFs left over from the last run can get really expensive very very fast. When something like Corvette PF comes along and 75% of the guys who promised they'd buy just didn't I was left explaining to my wife WTF happened. Lets see how understanding yours would be on that!
We have tried being nice and asking people to only place an order if they 100% intend to follow through, we have tried threatening to ban people from preorders if they don't follow though on their promises, we have tried deposits. We have pleaded and conjolled.... nothing has really worked. Often we are left holding dozens of PFs that don't sell... and in a worse case scenario their costs are can exceed $500 each...... how do you think your family would handle you saying don't worry we can carry this debt because a bunch of guys backed out of their promises...??? Would your wife be understanding?
Anyway, this HUGE issue came to a head last spring at which time it meant closing CPR or finding another way to do things ..... and it could have gone either way. There was some very dour looking faces around the table when I explained this to the guys. We decided to change up the way we do things and by going more to an on demand system and spending the price of a new house on a 17 1/2' printer but it was either that or shut down. Kevin keeps touting an on demand just for you but that's not really the idea we are driving at, but we are trying to use the new tech to make drastically smaller runs, say 3-5 or even 10 instead of 100+. We can handle getting stuck with a couple of PFs but we can't afford to get stuck with 80+ PFs like we did on Corvette or Joker Poker. Over the next many months we are taking stock of the 300,000-400,000 plus inserts we have and trying to figure out which PFs we can make with these. We'll make small qtys of each title we have art and inserts for and they'll be available on a first come basis. The cool thing is we'll be able to make a few more when the first ones get low. In a perfect world we could make one for each guy as they order but, that does take time. I'd still rather make a small batch and open it on the website with actual stock numbers and every single person would know the quality of what they were getting BEFORE they ordered.
Its not perfect but it may be a sustainable model where the idea of making 100+ Pfs or glasses and getting stuck with a large percentage of the run was just not sustainable anymore, even in the short run.
Mike

Again I have to commend you for all the great information that was provided in this thread. As the OP, I get where you're coming from financially producing PF's. If the digital format is the future, so be it. I know that myself and many of the people I talked to in the hobby prefer the OE silkscreened process perhaps because we haven't seen a digitally produced PF in person. I know Mirco been doing them, few have seen them them side by side with a silkscreened version to compare the quality. Having a silkscreened and digital version of the same PF at the Allentown shown in May would be awesome so we could compare if possible. I don't think Larry @ Starship does that show but it's 2 months away and maybe somehow it could happen.

#102 48 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

Kevin keeps touting an on demand just for you but that's not really the idea we are driving at, but we are trying to use the new tech to make drastically smaller runs, say 3-5 or even 10 instead of 100+
Mike

Glad to here this and agree with making small runs instead of one offs when it comes to playfields. Every time Kevin would say about making playfield one-offs on demand I would say to myself, there is no way I would want to pay for that playfield. With having to retool and setup it would cost more then scalper price on sold playfields.

#103 48 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Glad to here this and agree with making small runs instead of one offs when it comes to playfields. Every time Kevin would say about making playfield one-offs on demand I would say to myself, there is no way I would want to pay for that playfield. With having to retool and setup it would cost more then scalper price on sold playfields.

Agreed, cost is key. Looking at the "Boutique Zone" currently on CPR, Night Rider SS is a $1K game with sales on Boston Pinball's eBay tracker over the last year. Unless you totally love that game would you pay $775 delivered for it? Voltan with a production run of 365?

#104 48 days ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

You should just buy the worst condition playfield they make since even gold ones will need to be sent to Kruzman to fix all the mistakes and to do the clear on it. Your wasting your time and money waiting on the gold.
John

John, the CPR Gold playfield I put into the Bally Star Trek that I bought from you about 6 years ago looks fantastic. I have no complaints about their quality. Having someone "fix" a brand new playfield is overkill.

#105 48 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

Pookycade;
In your case with Xenon, I thought I fully explained this already but.... the run I made was only about 1/3 of the run and its only what I had materials for at the time. It was never going to be the entire run, I did the partial run to keep the guys employed using materials I already had on hand. I was planning on cutting the 30 PFs and then just keeping them under wraps until we received the rest of the materials and cut and glued the rest of the run. We would then print them all at once..... but, Kevin decided that he had a bit of a space in the production and went ahead and printed the ones we had ready to print, with the idea of printing the rest once we had them ready. So I understand you're upset you didn't get one of the initial part of the run but you were probably not in the first 30 guys who ordered. The rest of the materials came in and the PFs were cut and glued months ago. We are printing them this PF this coming week, silk screen by the way! Its is fully likely that you will get yours from this section of the run. The rest of the XENON run should be shipping in about 3-4 weeks.
That being said, we are a tiny operation, we finance each product on the sales of the last and on my home equity line of credit. Having anything more than a few PFs left over from the last run can get really expensive very very fast. When something like Corvette PF comes along and 75% of the guys who promised they'd buy just didn't I was left explaining to my wife WTF happened. Lets see how understanding yours would be on that!
We have tried being nice and asking people to only place an order if they 100% intend to follow through, we have tried threatening to ban people from preorders if they don't follow though on their promises, we have tried deposits. We have pleaded and conjolled.... nothing has really worked. Often we are left holding dozens of PFs that don't sell... and in a worse case scenario their costs are can exceed $500 each...... how do you think your family would handle you saying don't worry we can carry this debt because a bunch of guys backed out of their promises...??? Would your wife be understanding?
Anyway, this HUGE issue came to a head last spring at which time it meant closing CPR or finding another way to do things ..... and it could have gone either way. There was some very dour looking faces around the table when I explained this to the guys. We decided to change up the way we do things and by going more to an on demand system and spending the price of a new house on a 17 1/2' printer but it was either that or shut down. Kevin keeps touting an on demand just for you but that's not really the idea we are driving at, but we are trying to use the new tech to make drastically smaller runs, say 3-5 or even 10 instead of 100+. We can handle getting stuck with a couple of PFs but we can't afford to get stuck with 80+ PFs like we did on Corvette or Joker Poker. Over the next many months we are taking stock of the 300,000-400,000 plus inserts we have and trying to figure out which PFs we can make with these. We'll make small qtys of each title we have art and inserts for and they'll be available on a first come basis. The cool thing is we'll be able to make a few more when the first ones get low. In a perfect world we could make one for each guy as they order but, that does take time. I'd still rather make a small batch and open it on the website with actual stock numbers and every single person would know the quality of what they were getting BEFORE they ordered.
Its not perfect but it may be a sustainable model where the idea of making 100+ Pfs or glasses and getting stuck with a large percentage of the run was just not sustainable anymore, even in the short run.
Mike

Mike, thank you for the detailed personal reply. Way more detail than you should feel any obligation to provide. I was not aware this was just some limited run. Though still doesn’t explain Playboy.... anyway

Look, it might not seem so, but I’m rooting for you guys, not against you. Given a choice between Mirco and you, I’ll go with you every time. And hell its tough to run any business. My wife looks at the debt on my arcade with a raised eyebrow. Kids need to go to college some day. 100 overstock Nitro playfields ain’t gonna do it. I totally get it.

But please please please try this for once: 1) “Pookycade and OP I’m so sorry we couldn’t meet your needs as a company” 2) “We will make some changes to our email process/notifications to better set customer expectations” 3) “We will learn from this and try to do better within the constraints we have - our direct printing will help alleviate this some”.

I want to help make you guys better, not just trash the hell out of you. And yes if that run comes thru I will finally be buying my Xenon from you shortly. I am sorry you feel under siege, but this comes from feeling like we just aren’t being heard, not out of outrage.

-2
#106 48 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Plus the fact that Kevin is an @$s. Full of excuses and never wrong.

Couldn't be more clearer after reading his last post.

#107 48 days ago

I have seen these posts before... I find it funny that CPR cant find time to respond to customers email, but they can type mile long posts here.

Go figure......

-11
#108 47 days ago
Quoted from pookycade:

I was the one who got burned on Xenon. Look I get that these guys have done awesome things for the hobby but their explanations after the Xenon debacle are IMO complete crap. Kevin you had a list, you guesstimated that 70 out of 100 might buy. You guessed wrong. Why the hell didn’t you do the simple step I outlined before as in DON’T GUESS ! One day of effort you could have easily re-confirmed the orders just before going to production, hell even asking for deposit as a show of good faith. You would have then known that you had 100 takers and upped your number. Your guys failure to plan and get information that is easily gettable is not your customers problem. Who in their right mind decides on production quantity from a pre-order list 2 years in the making with no deposit. It’s your problem. Deal with it. Don’t screw up again. Change your damn approach to something that isn’t just making up sh*t and then coming on here to try to defend a completely crappy approach to deciding how many playfields to build. This is solvable BY YOU with one days worth of effort if you chose to do so. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing all over again and expecting a different result. No business can make every customer happy. But you could make a lot more of your customers happy and stay in business more easily by trying a different planning approach

Good thing I don't run CPR, if I did the OP and pookycade would never get another field direct again. They'd be left to find them in the secondary market

#109 47 days ago

The truth of the matter for me at least and to some extend for Kevin as well, is that we just don't read Pinside very much, or nearly at all for me. I only came here at all yesterday when Stu forwarded this topic otherwise I would never have seen it. Being the weekend I'm here on my time and not working so that's why I am able to type so much.

Our communication has ALWAYs been a weak spot for us. Kevin, alone used to be the only person with access to the email server and he was always the guy who did ALL the screening, all the grading, packing and shipping, picking colors, you name it. Chief cook and bottle washer, he did it all and many times just got overwhelmed. After all, he always said, I can screen print or I can answer every email, I can't always do both. So what used to happen was that he'd answer emails well until we started into a print run which is all consuming for up to two weeks. Afterwards he'd sit down to 2500+ emails...... Admittedly it did get better the last couple of years as we hired a few friends to help out. Since this past summer when we got the printer we now have two guys instead of just Kevin answering emails. But we get hundreds of emails a day and even though I get mad at the guys all the time as I do believe we should answer each and every email we get so many emails that simply ask when is this PF coming? Russ or Thomas in many cases have no idea how to answer that as I alone decide what PF to cut and when. My choices are limited to what I have inserts and wood and art for at that certain time.

For Xenon, we were in a position where the new order of inserts was late and I asked Tanner what we could make with the inserts we had. He spent hours out in the shop counting inserts and comparing them to things we already had made and he came up with Xenon as one of the titles we had all the material for, so we went ahead with that one.

We have been counting and sorting inserts now for weeks between CNC cuts and in our spare time so it's going to take a lot of time. Classic Bally and Stern aren't too bad with only really a dozen molds but when you add in the 8 or so colors and the combinations are large. Nevermind adding in starburst , dimples, offset etc bottom and them the many many extra colors of the more modern titles. BTW, there are over 500 color/mold combinations!! It's huge. Worse still is every maker of inserts makes them differently enough that many are not interchangeable.

Pookycade, I really am sorry you didn't get a PF from the first partial run of Xenon but like I said you have another crack at them in a few weeks. We are trying to communicate better and we tried small deposits on two of the recent playfields and that turned out well, at least so far. If we were to continue fully silkscreening then I think we would have to use deposits extensively but I feel that with small batching and using the new website (also a work in progress) that can actually manage stock I think we'll improve to everyone's benefit. If we make a small batch of 5-10 PFs, I can be alerted when we are down to the last 1 or 2 and can attempt to make more in time.

I know its hard to understand but like I said earlier we aren't a big company in any sense of the word. I still have a full time job that at times finances this company as a my hobby. We started out as just two guys in our basements, we are no longer in basements but two of our three locations are still personal garages on our properties! Not having a central facility has always been a shortcoming as there is no real boss but my woodshop produces hundreds of pounds of fine wood dust every week and the big flatbed has to be in an almost a sterile clean room, those things just do not mix!

Pinball for Ever

Mike

#110 47 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

The truth of the matter for me at least and to some extend for Kevin as well, is that we just don't read Pinside very much, or nearly at all for me. I only came here at all yesterday when Stu forwarded this topic otherwise I would never have seen it. Being the weekend I'm here on my time and not working so that's why I am able to type so much.
Our communication has ALWAYs been a weak spot for us. Kevin, alone used to be the only person with access to the email server and he was always the guy who did ALL the screening, all the grading, packing and shipping, picking colors, you name it. Chief cook and bottle washer, he did it all and many times just got overwhelmed. After all, he always said, I can screen print or I can answer every email, I can't always do both. So what used to happen was that he'd answer emails well until we started into a print run which is all consuming for up to two weeks. Afterwards he'd sit down to 2500+ emails...... Admittedly it did get better the last couple of years as we hired a few friends to help out. Since this past summer when we got the printer we now have two guys instead of just Kevin answering emails. But we get hundreds of emails a day and even though I get mad at the guys all the time as I do believe we should answer each and every email we get so many emails that simply ask when is this PF coming? Russ or Thomas in many cases have no idea how to answer that as I alone decide what PF to cut and when. My choices are limited to what I have inserts and wood and art for at that certain time.
For Xenon, we were in a position where the new order of inserts was late and I asked Tanner what we could make with the inserts we had. He spent hours out in the shop counting inserts and comparing them to things we already had made and he came up with Xenon as one of the titles we had all the material for, so we went ahead with that one.
We have been counting and sorting inserts now for weeks between CNC cuts and in our spare time so it's going to take a lot of time. Classic Bally and Stern aren't too bad with only really a dozen molds but when you add in the 8 or so colors and the combinations are large. Nevermind adding in starburst , dimples, offset etc bottom and them the many many extra colors of the more modern titles. BTW, there are over 500 color/mold combinations!! It's huge. Worse still is every maker of inserts makes them differently enough that many are not interchangeable.
Pookycade, I really am sorry you didn't get a PF from the first partial run of Xenon but like I said you have another crack at them in a few weeks. We are trying to communicate better and we tried small deposits on two of the recent playfields and that turned out well, at least so far. If we were to continue fully silkscreening then I think we would have to use deposits extensively but I feel that with small batching and using the new website (also a work in progress) that can actually manage stock I think we'll improve to everyone's benefit. If we make a small batch of 5-10 PFs, I can be alerted when we are down to the last 1 or 2 and can attempt to make more in time.
I know its hard to understand but like I said earlier we aren't a big company in any sense of the word. I still have a full time job that at times finances this company as a my hobby. We started out as just two guys in our basements, we are no longer in basements but two of our three locations are still personal garages on our properties! Not having a central facility has always been a shortcoming as there is no real boss but my woodshop produces hundreds of pounds of fine wood dust every week and the big flatbed has to be in an almost a sterile clean room, those things just do not mix!
Pinball for Ever
Mike

Thank you Mike. Apology accepted. Money waiting for Xenon playfield once it’s ready.

#111 47 days ago

******please note this has been fixed and cpr responded to my email******

CPR. Please fix your preorder for Barracora playfields. The button just takes you back to the page.

I sent an email but no one ever responded. I figured since you’re watching this thread like a hawk that someone will see it.

#112 47 days ago

TomGWI, I take a look at it. Thanks for the heads up.

Mike

#113 47 days ago
Quoted from Marvin:

Good thing I don't run CPR, if I did the OP and pookycade would never get another field direct again. They'd be left to find them in the secondary market

Yes how dare them wait for years just to not get one. It IS a good thing you don't run CPR, nobody would get one because they would be out of business.

Personally I love CPR. I've installed their playfields in every game I have owned that they produced.

I have been waiting patiently for Gorgar to go into production (2~3 years). After a year or so I even emailed saying I would take 2 not to hoard one but to get numbers up. If they start shipping will I pay for the second, he'll yes I'm not backing out. (I did notice the price went up from $650 to $750 on the preorder page though)

With that said after I wait 3 years, buy 2 just to get 1 and others get theirs and I'm told sorry...

IMG_5066 (resized).JPG

How about a Gorgar update? I've had a overlay installed on a playfield for a couple years but keep thinking I will wait.

IMG_5067 (resized).JPG
#114 47 days ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

In general, I dont agree with any of that. Its not complicated if you know what to do or hire someone set it up for you that knows what to do. Liability is a non issue where an agreement and disclaimer is signed before the order is made. People waited up to 2 years to get the 2015 Hellcats after leaving deposits. I followed that whole scenario very closely and even then the people that got upset near the end were small in number. I find parts of, not all of his explanation more of a rationalization where other parts show where important lessons were learned and applied. Sorry but this company needs some serious outside professional advice.

Because Dodge Hellcats and Pinball Playfields are comparable commodities....

#115 47 days ago
Quoted from timab2000:

I think that Hardtops are going to be the way to go in the future. No more dealing with wood and the quality of it and all the clear coating crap that goes along with it.
I know that there are a lot of haters of such a thought, but I really like the one that I got for my EK. Would certainly buy another one for a different game.

I have an EK hardtop that I'll be installing once I finish with my Strikes and Spares overlay install, and I'm already dreading it. I know it won't be quite the same labor-wise, but it will be close. For the amount of work (removing old artwork, raising/leveling inserts, cleaning/repairing/painting shooter lane/eject holes/saucers, shooting clear) I will never opt for a hardtop again to save a few hundred bucks if there is a repro pf available. I'm in Michigan, and sanding a pf in the driveway in January sucks, as well as dealing w multiple coats of clear that can't be sprayed in a house. I'd rather have brand new inserts and an unblemished wood surface to start with. And I want to HEAR the ball roll around, am I the only one that likes that sound?

The hardtops are fantastic for games that will never have pfs reproduced, and I realize that's the core demographic. They're a great addition to the hobby at a cheaper buy-in, but personally I'll be hanging the old playfields on the wall and putting in a repro if at all possible.

#116 47 days ago
Quoted from Marvin:

Good thing I don't run CPR, if I did the OP and pookycade would never get another field direct again. They'd be left to find them in the secondary market

Marvin if you run a business you get complaints. I just fielded one this morning for my arcade where I spent 30 minutes talking to a customer who wasn’t happy and I apologized. CPR can certainly ban me. They probably aren’t happy with me. I could have banned this customer I just talked to as well. Instead I offered to compensate them and told them we will be changing our signage so that we avoid their particular issue again, to better set expectations. So you can ban people, and you can’t make everyone happy, but if you use this approach you will probably be out of business soon enough. A smart business learns from its complaints and resets expectations. I don’t want CPR to be out of business. I want them to be better, I want them to better set expectations. From their response they are trying and that’s good enough for me and hopefully others as well.

#117 47 days ago
Quoted from ryanbrooks:

I’ve been told by numerous people that Keith Holbrook does good work. I’m sending him a playfield today. His quoted price was more than affordable.

Keith does great work. And his line for people wanting restorations keeps getting longer. Do not be in a hurry.

#118 47 days ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

For the amount of work (removing old artwork, raising/leveling inserts, cleaning/repairing/painting shooter lane/eject holes/saucers, shooting clear) I will never opt for a hardtop again to save a few hundred bucks if there is a repro pf available.

I sanded everything down with 220, polished the inserts cleaned the shooter lane, and laid the hardtop down. Took about 2 hours. Looks great. Sorry about the glare in the photos.

20190303_142026 (resized).jpg20190303_142030 (resized).jpg20190303_142035 (resized).jpg20190303_142044 (resized).jpg20190303_142059 (resized).jpg
#119 47 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Interesting concept about a lack of Golds. CPR's own web site says the Gold/Silver/Bronze production is 85%/10%/5%. I really question those numbers. I'll shop anywhere I can for a PF besides CPR. Kevin's PFs are my last resort. Why would any reputable business sell anything less than a "gold PF"? CPR's tiered playfield scheme is an excuse for mediocracy. They print PFs on crap wood not suitable for any PF. The wood should have been tossed in the dumpster. But Kevin manufactures it anyway, calls it a Bronze and sells it for a small savings over a gold.
I will say though, I have no issue with CPR plastics and backglasses.

because with playfields, you have so many factors that can provide imperfections in fields. A spot too high or low causing the ink to miss spots. Inserts shifting creating edging or ghosting. Crap in the clear. Routing issues. dimple issues. 100's of thing can go wrong. So if you strive for only perfection, what are you suppose to do with the other 80% inventory that has minor or major blemishes? You can't start over. Hence the price level tier. Even then, there is no such thing as a perfect playfield. if you look hard enough, every field has imperfections in it. If you want perfection, you need a different hobby.

#120 47 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

If you want perfection, you need a different hobby.

Exactly.

Here is a genuine Williams NOS F14 playfield that I did a few months back.

Note how many corrections I had do before even the first coat of clear could be applied.

This would not even be a Bronze CPR, yet this was the best NOS Williams playfield I've ever seen.

IMG_20180806_134152639_HDR (resized).jpg
#121 47 days ago
Quoted from ChiefKC:

However the Addams Family PF I bought from CPR is already showing signs of warping.

It is wood. Wood warps. I do not have any CPR play fields. Mine are original. I have one that is bowed and two that are twisted. And one wide body play field that is super straight. I found out that when they are installed and clamped down that they all lay flat and play action is not a problem.

-3
#122 47 days ago
Quoted from pookycade:

Marvin if you run a business you get complaints. I just fielded one this morning for my arcade where I spent 30 minutes talking to a customer who wasn’t happy and I apologized. CPR can certainly ban me. They probably aren’t happy with me. I could have banned this customer I just talked to as well. Instead I offered to compensate them and told them we will be changing our signage so that we avoid their particular issue again, to better set expectations. So you can ban people, and you can’t make everyone happy, but if you use this approach you will probably be out of business soon enough. A smart business learns from its complaints and resets expectations. I don’t want CPR to be out of business. I want them to be better, I want them to better set expectations. From their response they are trying and that’s good enough for me and hopefully others as well.

I wouldn't ban you for the complaint. I'd ban you for the incessant whining and telling me how to run my business. If they are so bad at it in your mind, you do it. See how that goes.

#123 47 days ago

Where did you get the Strikes and Spares overlay?

Frank

Quoted from pinzrfun:

I have an EK hardtop that I'll be installing once I finish with my Strikes and Spares overlay install, and I'm already dreading it. I know it won't be quite the same labor-wise, but it will be close. For the amount of work (removing old artwork, raising/leveling inserts, cleaning/repairing/painting shooter lane/eject holes/saucers, shooting clear) I will never opt for a hardtop again to save a few hundred bucks if there is a repro pf available. I'm in Michigan, and sanding a pf in the driveway in January sucks, as well as dealing w multiple coats of clear that can't be sprayed in a house. I'd rather have brand new inserts and an unblemished wood surface to start with. And I want to HEAR the ball roll around, am I the only one that likes that sound?
The hardtops are fantastic for games that will never have pfs reproduced, and I realize that's the core demographic. They're a great addition to the hobby at a cheaper buy-in, but personally I'll be hanging the old playfields on the wall and putting in a repro if at all possible.

#124 46 days ago
Quoted from timab2000:

I sanded everything down with 220, polished the inserts cleaned the shooter lane, and laid the hardtop down. Took about 2 hours. Looks great. Sorry about the glare in the photos.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

It does look great, in fact your pics inspired me to pull the trigger on mine, but the whole project took longer than 2 hours, I'm sure...☺

It's been suggested to lay down a shot of clear, which I'll do. And you had a decent shooter lane. I'm polishing/rebuilding all the mechs, ultrasonic and tumbling parts. And again, it's cold in these parts of the woods, high of 19 degrees today. Not good sanding or spraying weather.

My point is, if I'm going to be removing everything from the top of the playfield anyways (and the mechs from underneath since its on the rotisserie, might as well rebuild it all now), then I'd just as soon pull everything off, not worry about repairing a saucer hole or shooter lane, sanding or spraying anything, and just screw it all back down to a new playfield. I can do all that in the comfort of my basement any time of year. Had this been a blown out game I bought solely to flip, I could have slapped on the hardtop in a couple afternoons. Evel will be staying though, been after that one a while....

#125 46 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I tell him I already have 100 guitar

#126 46 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

Afterwards he'd sit down to 2500+ emails...... Admittedly it did get better the last couple of years as we hired a few friends to help out. Since this past summer when we got the printer we now have two guys instead of just Kevin answering emails. But we get hundreds of emails a day

The scourge of email. Joe Suburb sits in front of his computer and perhaps receives 7-8 emails per day. Most require no action on Joe's part. So Joe cannot understand why Company "A" cannot reply to his email within 24 hours.

When I was still in the working world 40-50 mails per day was the norm. E-mail can be such a time waster.

#127 46 days ago

My uncle bought the Playboy I have the day I was born. 1982. It was a mess when he got it, and a few years ago I bought it off of him. I put my name on the list the first or second day it was on CPRs website. I never got an email. I got lucky and was able to get a bronze because a few weeks ago I was sick, just happen to walk by the pin and in my head wondered what the progress was and looked and saw they were shipping and sent an email about how I never got notified. I got an email stating they never got to my spot. I was the first or second day. Don’t get me wrong, I am happy with how it turned out, wish it would have been a gold or silver because of what this pin means. I’m just curious who got the Gold and Silvers. I hope no line cutting happened. And why wasn’t an email sent out to all, or better yet, once it was realized that so many people didn’t get it, instantly bump it up and make more
My playfield looks great, some issues where no holes present and had to make a best guess but still satisfied, but I doubt I’ll do another preorder with CPR after this

0BF912CD-2085-4965-9DB4-916D836D448E (resized).jpegF1F83FC3-9456-405A-A98A-2416E37DB646 (resized).jpeg
#128 46 days ago
Quoted from JeffLadder:

or better yet, once it was realized that so many people didn’t get it, instantly bump it up and make more

You obviously have not read the posts that were put up by the CPR folks explaining why it does not "instantly" get bumped up.

-1
#129 46 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The scourge of email. Joe Suburb sits in front of his computer and perhaps receives 7-8 emails per day. Most require no action on Joe's part. So Joe cannot understand why Company "A" cannot reply to his email within 24 hours.
When I was still in the working world 40-50 mails per day was the norm. E-mail can be such a time waster.

Try 250 - 300 / day for me. Between the emails and never-ending meetings, I can't get anything done.

#130 46 days ago
Quoted from JeffLadder:

I put my name on the list the first or second day it was on CPRs website. I never got an email... sent an email about how I never got notified. I got an email stating they never got to my spot. I was the first or second day.

Those on the first and second day were *easily* the first emails out the door, the first wave, the first week. There was no possibility "we never got to your spot", because all those who sold out the Playboy playfield were well beyond the first year and a half of signups. So that was a strange answer to get. If that was the answer you were given, it sounds like a blanket answer that involved no lookup, due to the run selling out, and assumptions that you were in the final dozen(s) who never got reached. (because the question "Where are my instructions" came up a lot, after we stopped - and that was the answer). Should have nothing to do with a first-day or second-day (or even 100th-day) signup.

I'm going to PM you to seek your real name, so I can get to the bottom of this myself. I want to know who gave you that answer. I'm going to be able to tell you exactly where you were on the list, date, position number out of the group, and the date and time you were emailed. I show reply mailouts of the Instruction Email to the first 70% of the list. Every. Single. One. Plus, this is 'my department', as I do the Instructions emails personally. Nobody else here deals with the preorder inboxes.

I'm glad you got something, but if you were that early and didn't hear anything, something is wrong. Tons of ppl from the first couple days came and bought, and golds were abound back then.

Anyway, see you in PM.

----
UPDATE: Awaiting the Pinsider's reply in PM. In the meantime, I think I found the info for him. There was only one "Jeff" (I'll keep his last name private) in the first many months of signups, and this Jeff signed up on the first day. I sent him his Instructions Email on January 18th. First day of release, first wave of Instructions emails. I have forwarded him a copy in Pinside PM, with original headers included. I'm almost sure this is the guy. It has to be. I'll await his response on this.

#131 46 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

because with playfields, you have so many factors that can provide imperfections in fields. A spot too high or low causing the ink to miss spots. Inserts shifting creating edging or ghosting. Crap in the clear. Routing issues. dimple issues. 100's of thing can go wrong. So if you strive for only perfection, what are you suppose to do with the other 80% inventory that has minor or major blemishes? You can't start over. Hence the price level tier. Even then, there is no such thing as a perfect playfield. if you look hard enough, every field has imperfections in it. If you want perfection, you need a different hobby.

Looks great! I've got a few titles I would like to try a hardtop on but would rather a playfield swap. I'm definitely in on an EK playfield. That would be awesome.

#132 46 days ago
Quoted from lancestorm:

Try 250 - 300 / day for me. Between the emails and never-ending meetings, I can't get anything done.

I forgot about the endless meetings.

That's what weekends are for Nothing like a long commute 7 days a week.

The best meetings were the stand-up meetings. I was always amazed at how much the BS stopped when people had to have their asses in the air and their corns started hurting their feet 8).

#133 46 days ago

PM replied to. Just want to make it clear, I am not upset at the final product just upset at the lack of contact. There is always that chance that the email got lost or whatever. I remember when I sent the request, I never received a confirmation email. Looked on the page in the faq and it stated no confirmation email get sent out. Something they were looking into doing. Not sure if that has been changed or fixed.

#134 46 days ago

And this is what it looks like with the pin on and NO glass on the pin. Not knocking the product at all

E81C9495-BA69-4C59-AD56-B9EA498EF3B1 (resized).jpeg
#135 46 days ago
Quoted from JeffLadder:

And this is what it looks like with the pin on and NO glass on the pin. Not knocking the product at all

I personally never thought you were knocking the playfield. In fact, she looks gorgeous in there, and your swap job with all it's special touches really looks fantastic.

All I would say is, there are folks out there who truly believe your swap shouldn't exist. That gorgeous result. CPR Silvers and Bronzes are "an excuse for mediocracy" and there is alleged professional virtue if we were to never let them out the door. To the dumpster, they say.

Thanks for the pictures, your candor in PMs, and glad you got your uncle's machine back to another era of glory.

10
#136 46 days ago
Quoted from JeffLadder:

And this is what it looks like with the pin on and NO glass on the pin. Not knocking the product at all
[quoted image]

Now you just have to fix the color GI

#137 46 days ago

While I’ve never bought a CPR playfield, I’d like to remind everyone this topic reminds me a considerable amount of the bashing that we as operators used to get for some of the repair jobs we did. It wasn’t because we were dumb or lazy at the time, it’s because in the 90’s, there were no internet marketplaces with a plethora of parts. Mouser and MCM etc existed, but you called an 800 number and ordered via COD. Shipping wasn’t as efficient as it is today. We had a local WPC distributor at the time, but they didn’t stock much. If you requested something to be ordered, 50% of the time the parts department got it done.

Now imagine needing a playfield in those days. You were basically at the mercy of dumb luck of someone walking in the door of your office with a junk game with good playfield they wanted to sell for quick cash.

I see both sides of the coin on this thread. Sometimes it sucks that you preorder and don’t get a playfield. It sucks that not every title is available. And honestly, it sucks what a playfield costs (it also sucks what all machines cost anymore) but at the same time, at least there’s CPR and Micro and whoever else making some playfields where we’ve got options when we need one.

#138 46 days ago
Quoted from ryanbrooks:

(it also sucks what all machines cost anymore)

I won't disagree with you. But the only reason some of these old pins are being brought back to life is because the prices are in an area where you can fix the old girl up and not take a complete beating when you go to sell. People are appreciating and loving the nice, fun, playing pins. Items of value get taken care of. Items of no value wind up in the dumpster.

I don't know how long it will last, though. It seems that it is the baby boomers like me are driving the market. Especially for parts. I have nine 35 year old pins that I am working on restoring or fixing up. I have been buying all kinds of parts, paint, stencils, and tools, repro back glasses and inserts. When I am done with these then I am done except, for maintenance work.

Eventually, every pin that can be rebuilt will be rebuilt. No more play fields will be needed. Back glass demand will go through the floor. etc.

#139 46 days ago
Quoted from CPR:

we can't afford to get stuck with 80+ PFs like we did on Corvette or Joker Poker.

Wow! 10,000 Joker Pokers were produced.

Quoted from CPR:

We decided to change up the way we do things and by going more to an on demand system and spending the price of a new house on a 17 1/2' printer but it was either that or shut down.

That takes balls of steel.

#140 46 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I won't disagree with you. But the only reason some of these old pins are being brought back to life is because the prices are in an area where you can fix the old girl up and not take a complete beating when you go to sell. People are appreciating and loving the nice, fun, playing pins. Items of value get taken care of. Items of no value wind up in the dumpster.
I don't know how long it will last, though. It seems that it is the baby boomers like me are driving the market. Especially for parts. I have nine 35 year old pins that I am working on restoring or fixing up. I have been buying all kinds of parts, paint, stencils, and tools, repro back glasses and inserts. When I am done with these then I am done except, for maintenance work.
Eventually, every pin that can be rebuilt will be rebuilt. No more play fields will be needed. Back glass demand will go through the floor. etc.

Ya, these ludicrous prices can’t last forever. Baseball cards, comic books and muscle cars all had the same fate. The truly rare, collectible and desired items will always be (Honus Wagner, Action #1, Boss 429, TAFG) but markets tend to correct themselves eventually be it financial crisis, over saturation, or lack of desire in the next generations.

On the other hand, pinball is hip, different, artistic and eco friendly so it’s more millennial than we probably realize. Maybe manufacturers need to focus on themes that will attract these millennials? Film noir? Music and band themes that aren’t their parents and grandparents music? Maybe Elvira 3 will be their turning point?

#141 46 days ago

eco friendly? when did this happen i guess i missed it

#142 46 days ago

The pictures don’t help. This looks amazing. I even have CPRs topper on it. I’ll post that when I get home. After communicating with Kevin, I would order again, just a little upset with how everything happened, but stuff happens. Could have been lost, or whatever. All I know is it looks better(and plays better, you have no idea how hard it was to judge when you have a divet in the playfield and have to guess where the ball would wind up). I’ll just end this with the playfield I got was good, the communication I got recently was great. In 30 years, I would buy a new Iron Man Playfield from them. And I’ll give a shout out to TNT Amusements. 2 of the guys that helped me are in my fantasy football league work at TNT, they helped me so much and if it wasn’t perfect, they fixed it.

#143 46 days ago
Quoted from ryanbrooks:

Ya, these ludicrous prices can’t last forever. Baseball cards, comic books and muscle cars all had the same fate. The truly rare, collectible and desired items will always be (Honus Wagner, Action #1, Boss 429, TAFG) but markets tend to correct themselves eventually be it financial crisis, over saturation, or lack of desire in the next generations.
On the other hand, pinball is hip, different, artistic and eco friendly so it’s more millennial than we probably realize. Maybe manufacturers need to focus on themes that will attract these millennials? Film noir? Music and band themes that aren’t their parents and grandparents music? Maybe Elvira 3 will be their turning point?

Quoted from belairjoe:

eco friendly? when did this happen i guess i missed it

I don't know about the eco-friendly part. I sure have burned a lot of gasoline chasing the ones I have now. And seems like pins on the west coast head east and meet up half-way with the ones going west If pinballers went on strike STI might have to shut down.

I got into this when I was retired at 62. As I get older I realize I am going to be staying home a lot more--which might be more eco-friendly. For retirement, I am finding out pinball is a great hobby. I am also starting to understand why hobbies get promoted so much. For business and living I have always been a skinflint. With pinball as a hobby it seems that I cannot spend my money fast enough which is juice to the economy.

There is an old saying: Money is like manure. You got to spread it around for it to do any good I'm sure doing my part

#144 45 days ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Now you just have to fix the color GI

agreed. the colored GI looks like complete ass. As it always does with every game that people do it on.

#145 45 days ago
Quoted from belairjoe:

eco friendly? when did this happen i guess i missed it

I don't know about you guys, but my latest pin is vegan friendly and non-GMO.

#146 45 days ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

CPR. Please fix your preorder for Barracora playfields. The button just takes you back to the page.
I sent an email but no one ever responded. I figured since you’re watching this thread like a hawk that someone will see it.

This is now fixed. Thanks CPR.

#147 45 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

So what I'm reading is Stern has cost reduced out that $12 on an almost $9000 retail LE and $8000 Premium machine to sacrifice consistently harder playfields for 12 bucks in their bottom line. Great.

Yes, that's unbelievable. Gary I heard will ask "what that costs" when a designer has an idea for a Mod/mechanism for the game. So I guess he looks at 1k games at $12 each that's another 12k to the bottom line. What he doesn't get is what that's costing him in future sales.

#148 45 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

agreed. the colored GI looks like complete ass. As it always does with every game that people do it on.

Dunno. The green on Munsters in Herman mode works, and the Metallica GI change is nice, too. So colored GI isn't ALWAYS bad, just when it's done in an amateurish way (usually the homebrew carnival puke examples).

#149 45 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Dunno. The green on Munsters in Herman mode works, and the Metallica GI change is nice, too. So colored GI isn't ALWAYS bad, just when it's done in an amateurish way (usually the homebrew carnival puke examples).

The operative word in your comment is, MODE. it looks pretty awesome and space station as well. But it would get old quick if it was green the whole darn time.

#150 45 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

At least we know vid's full of crap saying Stern's playfields are not worse because they're cheaping out on the wood. From that clear, concise, insider account, they are cheaping out on the playfield wood to save $12 per $8000 machine.

He said they aren't paying for the quality BOTTOM layer... and CPR uses the extra wood as insurance while Stern can just pick and reject pieces that really don't look good. Stern can live with more rejects... CPR can't so they upgrade to get a better shot at meeting the desired quality.

CPR went above what Stern does.. not that Stern reduced to save $12. You're twisting the cites.

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