Stu, are the colors that rich on the PoB bg or is it just the camera? It looks beautiful.
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Quoted from ForceFlow:I'd kind of like to have a BOP backglass, but since I don't have a BOP pin, it's a bit expensive for a wall hanging. Ah well. Looks nice, though.
I have a new BoP tl I could sell ya for $75 shipped if I buy the bg for my game.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Appreciate the offer, but translites don't really speak to me like a nice backglass does. I'm sure that would be a really good deal for someone who needs it, though. Thanks
Your welcome.
Quoted from mollyspub:was thinking the same, looks great !...but will someone please come out with a repro BOP playfield !?!?!?!
I hear ya but it won't be CPR, Stu has made that quite clear.
Quoted from jfh:Got a Bride backglass and plan to use it as a backlit wall hanging as I don't own a BOP machine.
You did, great. Tell us, are the colors as rich as the CPR photos depict?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Well, I've been hemming and hawing over the BOP backglass, and I figure one this nice might not be around the next time I want one, so I placed my order. It's only money, after all
Looking forward to seeing CPR workmanship up close
Been doing the same thing. Got a new speaker plastic so I just now ordered the bg. Yup it's only money. If someone comes out with a new pf I'm REALLY gonna be in trouble then.
Quoted from SPeD66:I need a Stars backglass!
Get the plastics and your half way there. It may be a while if CPR does the bg.
Quoted from jfh:I didn't select the "deliver by transporter beam" option.
Well I know that, when ya get it.
Quoted from ForceFlow:It's it simply a matter of talking to PPS, or is it more complicated than that?
Stu doesn't speak for CPR so he really can't talk about it and has stated that a number of times.
Quoted from ForceFlow:Ah, I was simply curious.
I know but he has answered that soooo many times he's a little touchy about it.
Quoted from Stu:Actually, the BoP CAB Decals is My Artwork ( not through CPR ) I did the artwork as a separate project for Rick....
Really! That is so cool. I bet you wish you could do the pf then you would have done a complete game. Have you ever done a complete game before?
Quoted from Mar:I'll be taking a 'before and after' photo for comparison and I'll post it here. I'll likely not be the first to post photos, but I'm interested regardless.
Yes the two should be quite different, but that's what I'm counting on. I find the translite colours dull and the plastic diffuses the light. I've never liked how globes or LEDs react behind plastic (on just about every translite). I'm really looking forward to seeing the glass.
I think the colors will be much more rich then the tl. Can't wait to get mine.
Quoted from phalcon_2600:I agree! We want a Pinbot backglass with mirroring! Why did we skip Pinbot and go right to BOP???
Cuz the Bride looks so sexy, everybody is hot for her.
Quoted from Stu:Bad Cats is being printed directly after Star Trek.......
but your still waiting for someone to send you a ST to scan. Methinks something is amiss.
I got the notification that my BoP bg should be here next Friday, but of course I'll be at work so I'll have to pick it up at UPS on Sat.
Quoted from Stu:The cad file is so complicated on ToTAN that it's taking the CNC machine almost 2 Hours & 9 Bit Changes just to complete 1 Board ( vrs 30 minutes for a typical board ).....Time is Money...we'll be cutting this board for Months!
Thanks for explaining it Stu and not getting po'd.
Quoted from Stu:Actually I did get PO'd, but I chose to give somewhat of a simple explanation as to the production/price for this title....Which also uses Twice as many Inserts as a typical board that we produce so there is Another reason for an increased price......I was trying to stop a shit storm before it ever got started.......
I hate when people make Stupid comments like "Does the wood for the $899 TOTAN PF require wood from some special tree?"....that's just asinine to even make that comment. That's the kind of crap that sets me off on a rampage....
....and to that end > We really don't owe anybody Any kind of an Explanation for Anything, ...Buy it, Don't Buy it, We are not forcing anybody to do anything, we simply make the product & those people that want it Buy it, those that choose to complain about everything or want to play "Where's Waldo" have choice Not to buy it.......Pretty Simple huh?
I see your letting off some steam here but that's OK by me. People should know better.
Quoted from Stu:Our "commercial CNC" actually holds 3 Bits at 1 time & due to all of the different types of Cuts & different hole Sizes we still have to make 9 Bit Changes.....I get the feeling that people think I'm lying about this stuff & if that's what you think then so be it, but I'm tired of having to explain everything to everybody.....
I sure don't Stu, I pick-up and deliver to machine shops and I've seen first hand what 3 bit spindles look and work like. It's REALLY amazing. Keep the faith Stu.
Quoted from pin-pimp:I own a Cnc machine shop and specialize in high precision injection mold builds and product development.
I also own my own brand of firearms accessories that we build, market and sell.
What i have learned over the years is forums like this can make or break a guy.
I learned to not even talk about a new product until it was ready to sell.
That really throws off consumers and they go "wow". Totally a hero, no gossip, no forum fights, no pre order BS.
I'm sure there is more involved with making repro PF's than most people know.
Keep it up. Good stuff.
That's cool, one of the places I pick-up and deliver to does the exact same thing it's called Vision Mold in Elk River, MN. The biggest I've hauled for them was a 3000lb'er. That's big for a van to haul.
Quoted from KevinCPR:The pricing is my decision, so I can give a few more details beyond what Stu can provide. I'm not upset by the question or some of the speculations posted by others, so don't read into my post as being defensive. I won't be doing these kind of public justifications probably ever again, but at least this one time I can respond as kind of a time capsule or testament that can be linked-to later (by Stu or others) to direct any price questioning to this post.
First off, I want to make clear that the Request (formerly "Preorder") page/lists at our site are name collector inboxes. We take no deposits, and simply count heads and create mailing lists for the first grabs of who gets the playfields upon release. You're basically raising your hand for first dibs, in a queue, instead of us just releasing them public. We think it's more orderly than just making playfields go "open season" at release. While we prefer that people hold to their slot(s) and buy at release time, truly there is no enforcable obligation to follow through. Many don't, on every run. People back out all the time. In fact, on the most recent FIRE run, a staggering 40% were no-shows, and we're left holding the bag on a near-half unsold portion of the run. In turn, it's a two-way street, and just like there is no obligation to buy, we don't have an obligation to sell/price the playfields in any fixated way. We're not even obligated to run them. This two-way freedom has it's pros and cons. Pros that we have the freedom to make what we want, and when we want - in no particular order or on any timelines. Nobody is breathing down our neck, with $50 or $100 deposits being held, and demanding updates and/or deadlines. Con (for us) is the customer doesn't even have to follow through on the playfield purchase. Thus we made one available for them, but nada. Pro for them, because they aren't stuck buying a playfield at release when a) they may have sold the game b) they may have bought something else with their hobby bankroll, or c) they simply don't have the money and/or are in a bad spot.
This leads to the pricing estimates part. We try our best to hold true to the posted estimate (and they were always listed as "Estimated Price") but there too, we aren't stuck. When reality creeps up and hard production reaches true tallies on the BOM, sometimes things can change a little bit. This was the case with TOTAN.
The estimated price was previously $799. Just so everybody knows, it was a $100 increase, not $200. 12.5% Anybody can check back in the Wayback Machine site to see this if they need to. (archive.org)
So here are the one-time reasons for this small price shift. For any future links to this post, any or all these kinds of reasons may/could pertain to future price shifts that folks may wonder about:
- TOTAN is a beast. Period. Full Stop. Waaaay more complex than we ever anticipated. Could possibly be the most complex repro playfield ever attempted by any maker, at any time in the history of the hobby. Medieval Madness my ass. This thing is wooden swiss cheese, it's got so many cuts (see below). It is easily +100% more overall work per playfield, as opposed to our more "normal" releases.
- Cut time is over double a "normal" playfield. Yes, we could cut two "normal" playfields in the time it takes to yield one TOTAN blank. I won't get into timing, but we officially yield half as many TOTANs per day, as opposed to other playfields. Our pile is growing significantly slower, and the clock is ticking. We could be making twice as many of any other release during this same time.
- Double to triple the inserts of a "normal" playfield. Plus we won't even get into the insert oddities/dramas/expenses that some of these inserts took to get found/molded - and some are one-of-a-kind, never used on another playfield. Some of the inserts (like lightning bolts and hotdogs) are a bitch to inlay, and take 5-6 times the time to seat properly and glue effectively, as opposed to regular rounds and arrows. Thus, with its 70+ assorted inserts, gluing a TOTAN is like gluing 100-125 regular "round" inserts.
- The TOTAN art package is a 14-color beast as well. Again, double the color shifts at print time. Most playfields have a pallate of 7-9 spot colors and they are done.
- The wood for this run was a custom 46" (not 42" standard length) gameboard run at the mill. We also sprung for extra-special stock, made with REALLY hearty face layers (beyond the meaty faces we normally get now) and we're back to solid ash (yes, ash) cores. There is no choice for TOTAN, as half the wood is routed away - structural intregrity in the remaining board is extremely important.
- Put bluntly, to make one TOTAN, we *could* have made *two* "regular" $699 playfields. That's $899 vs. $1398 in revenue for the same CPR production period spent.
- Our $599-$699 playfields go into $500-$1500 games. TOTAN is a $899 playfield into a $4000+ game. Plus AAA-machine DMD repro playfields from other makers have sold for $800-$900 at release, all day long. Plus, none of them were TOTAN. Ol' Totey trumps them all, IMO.
Anyway guys, this run was a long time coming. It's CPR's first "DMD" playfield for an AAA game. We want it to be done right, and we have to recover our back end on this one when it comes release time. The quid we've floated into this one is the most we've ever committed on a playfield, in our entire history back to 2005. We're still going to be months before the first wave of these come out. The run is also big enough (according to those raised hands) that it's going to take two or more runs to complete enough to serve all.
Here's photos of a $699 playfield (upcoming EK, third-party licensed BTW) compared to $899 TOTAN, plus some closeups of the TOTAN official cut. Note: these are MDF pilot cuts, where everything is verified before the machine is ever thrown over to real gameboard wood.
KEVIN
Classic Playfield Reproductions
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Thank you Kevin for taking the time to give us all that info. The way some people think your pricing isn't fair is beyond me.
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