(Topic ID: 292014)

CPR Gold or NOS for EBD if you could pick?

By jgelman

6 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 83 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by vid1900
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20210424_120213 (resized).jpg
image-A31 (resized).jpg
8843fa0cfef909d11d1a24cebe9983cce0d7b441 (resized).jpg
esflaw (resized).PNG
20210422_191336 (resized).jpg
20210422_192152 (resized).jpg
fender-25th-anniversary-american-stratocaster-1979-2976202 (resized).jpg
ad1 (resized).png
825ae10d1d1e092004af8abce95c4bd7 (resized).jpg
dae3d8ceab8fa3e27deb5b94d576867548506bbb (resized).jpg
cpr vs ipb (resized).jpg
CAE44532-246A-4071-812D-26610D1FBFC5 (resized).jpeg
DC01E907-B3EB-4E99-845C-801F09226734 (resized).jpeg
Cupping (resized).jpeg

There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 5 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

If it's a reaction in the paint, it all changes. Not just an area.
I had an O Scale model railroad engine painted in Freedom Train colors. Over time the bright white faded to cream color, engine and tender. both sides. And it was sitting on a shelf all the time. So both sides had different exposures.
LTG : )

Well, if there is some chemical process that changes the white to cream on some playfields, then I suppose it is possible that my playfield was white in 1982 and changed to cream by the time I bought it in 1984. All I know is that I have an original playfield that has been cream for a long time.

When I got it, it was pretty badly worn and had a thick piece of mylar covering just the area between the slingshots. I removed that mylar, did quite a bit of touch-up to various worn areas, and then installed the full thin mylar sheet (which I had to order from Bally through Betson). The mylar'd area has held up quite well over time, but the areas not covered have gotten worse.

Eventually I will do either a swap or a hardtop (probably a swap), but that's a project for the future.

#52 5 months ago

Some of you guys are letting Gene confuse you.

At the same time that EBD was being made, Fender made their 25th Anniversary Stratocaster in a special edition Porsche Silver paint.

(get it, 25th anniversary is the "silver anniversary")

Even though they all left the factory 40 years ago in a bright silver, genuine Porsche paint - they have now turned a disgusting gold/green. Even if kept in a case for 4 decades, they look like they have 100 years of nicotine stains.

825ae10d1d1e092004af8abce95c4bd7 (resized).jpg

So nubies in the guitar collecting hobby will say they got a "Golden Anniversary Strat", or argue that "They must have shipped them that color, my dad died right after he bought it, and it's been in the closet the entire time!!!!"

But everyone who was around in 1979 remembers that they indeed were originally bright silver.

ad1 (resized).png

The paint simply has aged badly, Fender did not make a bunch of green or gold Strats for their big milestone.....

fender-25th-anniversary-american-stratocaster-1979-2976202 (resized).jpg

#53 5 months ago

Okay so mine is not a Gene pf, no registration grid. I put it in in the early 90s. I'm still kinda confused about the whole white vs. cream thing. Is it supposed to apply to the entirety of white on the playfield? I thought mine was cream on some art (under plastics, the top arch, some other places) and pure white on other art like the pool balls. But now I think maybe I was kidding myself even after comparing photos of spots side by side on my monitor, and actually the whole damn thing is essentially the same white, and no cream.

#54 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Even if kept in a case for 4 decades, they look like they have 100 years of nicotine stains.

That reminds me of the Brunswick bicentennial pool balls. I bought 5 sets. Never used them. Stored in the original boxes in the shipping master carton in a dark closet. 25 years later I dug them out. The white parts on all the balls had turned a cream color.

LTG : )

#55 5 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

That reminds me of the Brunswick bicentennial pool balls. I bought 5 sets. Never used them. Stored in the original boxes in the shipping master carton in a dark closet. 25 years later I dug them out. The white parts on all the balls had turned a cream color.
LTG : )

LOL

I've got a bicentennial proof coin set encased in plastic.

Even though it's been in the original presentation slip case all these years, the plastic has turned amber.

Looks like total shlt

#56 5 months ago
Quoted from jgelman:

I am talking about 2 restored machines. 1 was restored with an NOS playfield (I do not think it was clear coated) and the other was restored with a CPR Gold.

An NOS PF from this time period almost always needs to be restored. For example, inserts can be loose and they almost always have lots of other issues despite being NOS. I purchased an NOS Paragon PF years ago for 1k and had Kruzman restore it for another $700. The work he did on the NOS was intense...well worth the money. I ended up selling that and picked up a CPR Paragon PF that I waited almost a decade for It is awesome...currently hanging on my wall.

#57 5 months ago

Cpr for sure. Everyone except Pinside experts will be amazed with a flat, bright, smooth Cpr playfield.

#58 5 months ago
Quoted from pindel:

Cpr for sure. Everyone except Pinside experts will be amazed with a flat, bright, smooth Cpr playfield.

The digital print playfields are below the quality of the silkscreen units.

Quality has been traded off for availability.

#59 5 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, if there is some chemical process that changes the white to cream on some playfields, then I suppose it is possible that my playfield was white in 1982 and changed to cream by the time I bought it in 1984. All I know is that I have an original playfield that has been cream for a long time.

For a point of comparison: An actual Bally Night Rider playfield and its WHITE, even after all this time. Cracked, faded a little but still white.

My Flash Gordon is clearly NOT WHITE, its a light, light cream and much darker/yellow in the areas not covered with posts and ramps due to sun exposure..

The simple answer I can think of is rather than do a separate layer for light cream it was the initial color not white.

Maybe it was discontinued for the issues we are seeing now, Bally tried all sorts of things even plastic playfields.

The IPB playfield looks really goofy, way to dark in the light areas.

20210422_191336 (resized).jpg20210422_192152 (resized).jpg

#60 5 months ago

Here's the biggest flaw on my CPR Gold ES, contamination/debris under the silkscreen. It's like a bulge trying to poke through. I love what they do, but I'll stick with non-Gold and expect imperfections vs getting this on a Gold.

esflaw (resized).PNG

#61 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

LOL
I've got a bicentennial proof coin set encased in plastic. Even though it's been in the original presentation slip case all these years, the plastic has turned amber.

Heh, they musta made pinball plastics back then outta the same stuff. I still have the original saucer lane ball guide in my EBD (cuz the repro of that plastic was a piece of crap and was chipping). It's yellowed but it is mostly covered with another plastic so doesn't bother me.
This thread is beginning to look like it could just be cut and pasted into the "EBD Owners and Restoration" thread, it would fit.

#62 5 months ago

The one thing that yellowed the most over time was the Butyrate plastic sets.

#63 5 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I would choose CPR if someone guaranteed me that all the dimples are in the correct spots and no holes were messed up or in the wrong spots.

Oh now you tell me haha. This thread made me go immediately to cpr where I discovered they had a sole meteor playfield in stock so I bought that, new backglass and new plastics. The price for all three as a bundle was not bad.

#64 5 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, if there is some chemical process that changes the white to cream on some playfields, then I suppose it is possible that my playfield was white in 1982 and changed to cream by the time I bought it in 1984. All I know is that I have an original playfield that has been cream for a long time.

4 different manufacturers used to do the playfields for Bally back then.

So one of them got a bad batch(es) of ink.

It happens.

Same thing with guitars, cars and some Williams playfields.

But it was not the intended color. If it was, then we would see the Pantone color code for "custard puke" on the first layer screen

No one denies that people own gold 25th anniversary guitars, but it was certainly not Fender's intention.

#65 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

4 different manufacturers used to do the playfields for Bally back then.
So one of them got a bad batch(es) of ink.
It happens.
Same thing with guitars, cars and some Williams playfields.
But it was not the intended color. If it was, then we would see the Pantone color code for "custard puke" on the first layer screen
No one denies that people own gold 25th anniversary guitars, but it was certainly not Fender's intention.

Isn't that what I've been saying all along...some original playfields were white, and some were cream?

Maybe it was one playfield manufacturer that did cream, maybe it was just one particular playfield batch - but some were white and some were not - and they were all "original" (not reproductions, IPB or otherwise).

As for what color was actually intended, I have no idea. Maybe the cream was an intentional experiment, maybe it was a mistake somewhere.

#66 5 months ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Isn't that what I've been saying all along...some original playfields were white, and some were cream?

Maybe the cream was an intentional experiment, maybe it was a mistake somewhere.

I'm agreeing with you that there are custard playfields out there.

They were white when new (or they would have been rescreened), and simply used defective ink.

#67 5 months ago

Appreciate the feedback. I guess the answer to my question is that it depends on who you ask with no real consensus. For me, I would find the slight variations of shades of white less important than other factors. If a repro had lesser quality resolution compared to original-NOS, as suggested by PNBLWZD's comparison of the cue stick and registration around the drop openings, that would make me favor NOS. However, if the NOS would in some way not hold up as well as a new repro, even in an home use environment, that would make me favor a repro.

If which is better depends on who you ask, that would suggest to me that one may not necessarily be worth more than the other overall as far as the value when purchasing a machine.

#68 5 months ago
Quoted from jgelman:

However, if the NOS would in some way not hold up as well as a new repro, even in an home use environment, that would make me favor a repro.

The NOS will need a topcoat of clear and will need all the cupped inserts filled and leveled. Without a new topcoat, the NOS will wear and chip rather quickly, and the cupped inserts will divert the ball path.

The CPR will give you a much more durable playing surface, flat inserts, and of course the intended colors when the game was originally produced.

-1
#69 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The CPR will give you a much more durable playing surface, flat inserts, and of course the intended colors when the game was originally produced.

I have a CPR Star Trek playfield that doesn't even have the right color inserts so don't share your enthusiasm for the vendor in question.

#70 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I have a CPR Star Trek playfield that doesn't even have the right color inserts so don't share your enthusiasm for the vendor in question.

You should have returned it if it bothered you.

I've got OEM playfields from Williams with the wrong inserts installed that I've posted pictures of. I'm sure Williams did not care, anything to keep the line moving, lol.

#71 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You should have returned it .

Part of a 5 pin package, not going to blow up the deal for a detail on a single pin.

Just pointing out they make mistakes and not infailable. By any stretch.

#72 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The NOS will need a topcoat of clear and will need all the cupped inserts filled and leveled. Without a new topcoat, the NOS will wear and chip rather quickly, and the cupped inserts will divert the ball path. The CPR will give you a much more durable playing surface, flat inserts, and of course the intended colors when the game was originally produced.

Depends on the current condition of the NOS, how much the inserts are cupped, how much play this playfield already has on it and how much it will be played in home use, assuming it will be. Again mine's been played in house for 20+ years, no wear or chipping except very slight wearing on the very outer edge of the keyline art or whatever they call the black ring on two or three of the inserts. No ball tracks or chipping. On the other hand NOSs are twice as old now, and there are lots of pics of original EBDs that lived the routed arcade life that look like somebody took a power sander to them because it's a killer game and they got so much play.

#73 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Just pointing out they make mistakes and not infailable.

He who has never made a mistake among pinballers, let him cast the first stone at the backglass.

#74 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

4 different manufacturers used to do the playfields for Bally back then.

Agree.
Williams also did sample contracting to wannabe playfield screeners.
I ended up with a bad Comet playfield... The engineers at Williams
told me about sample processes to potential contractors.
Luckily that company was not chosen.

#75 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've got OEM playfields from Williams with the wrong inserts installed that I've posted pictures of. I'm sure Williams did not care, anything to keep the line moving, lol.

Yes, my original EBD playfield has the 70K and Extra Ball inserts swapped. The guys at the factory either didn't notice, or figured nobody would really care.

-1
#76 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

He who has never made a mistake among pinballers, let him cast the first stone at the backglass.

Not an acceptable answer when providing goods or services.

#77 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:Not an acceptable answer when providing goods or services.

It's hilarious that you are butthurt about a product that you bought, knowing it was "defective" (second hand yet).

It would be 100x more hilarious if you were crying about the 1979 Bally Star Trek, because everyone in the hobby knows that there were at least 4 different factory variations in the saucer inserts: Yellow BALLY, White BALLY, Red Special, and White Special

8843fa0cfef909d11d1a24cebe9983cce0d7b441 (resized).jpgimage-A31 (resized).jpg
#78 5 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I ended up with a bad Comet playfield...

Was there ever a good Comet playfield???

"Hey boss, what should we do with all this chalk? Ya want me to make some ink for Williams? That Neil is a sonobitch"

#79 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's hilarious that you are butthurt about a product that you bought, knowing it was "defective" (second hand yet).
It would be 100x more hilarious if you were crying about the 1979 Bally Star Trek, because everyone in the hobby knows that there were at least 4 different factory variations in the saucer inserts: Yellow BALLY, White BALLY, Red Special, and White Special[quoted image][quoted image]

Ahem.

Not sure why you continue to make excuses for a vendor well known for providing product of uneven quality.

Compare to the picture you just posted.

Edit: This is a pointless discussion. You attack me on one example I have pointed out. I have purchased several sets of plastics, a playfield or two and backglasses from CPR and none of them have been the same quality as the original pieces. None.

Your attacks on my character will not change that a wit.

It is nice someone makes replacement parts, would be nicer if they stepped up the quality of them to of at least OEM.

Done here.

20210424_120213 (resized).jpg

#80 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Ahem.
Not sure why you continue to make excuses for a vendor well known for providing product of uneven quality.
Compare to the picture you just posted.
[quoted image]

Those are the variations that generally go with the "White Special" on the Saucer playfields.

Did you want CPR to make 4 separate versions, lol ???

If your butthole is still puckering over it, send it to me and I will install any color insert you want in about 2 minutes.

#81 5 months ago

Sadly, looking over the new playfields by the two vendors...
A loss of fine detail is getting more dissolved from the original OEM playfield.

#82 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Edit: This is a pointless discussion. You attack me on one example I have pointed out.

What are you talking about??

No one is attacking you.

I even offered to modify your playfield into the version you believed to be the correct one.

#83 5 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

It is nice someone makes replacement parts, would be nicer if they stepped up the quality of them to of at least OEM.

Back in 2011, most of the original films were yet undiscovered in Gene's mess.

So reproduction playfields, plastics and backglasses were just color matched by eye vs the Pantone books.

4 different OEM vendors and 40 years of aging, means the orange on your NOS Lec-Smith Sorcerer may not match my NOS Churchill Sorcerer.

My early NOS early Xenon may have 2 additional inserts, although your NOS late Xenon has 3 additional GI lamp holes - neither is "correct", LOL.

-

Now that most of the original films are being unearthed by PPS, we have the actual original artist's Pantone color numbers, right on each layer of the film.

So that super deep Pantone "Royal Cobalt" blue may look way too saturated compared to your 40 year old original - but it is absolutely the correct color spec'ed by the original artist.

Quoted from vec-tor:

Sadly, looking over the new playfields by the two vendors...
A loss of fine detail is getting more dissolved from the original OEM playfield.

Yeah, soon all the digital reproductions will just be grainy junk that does not stick to the substrate. And all the fun colors like that super hot fuchsia on Silver Ball Mania will just be bla pink....

There are 83 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside