(Topic ID: 172897)

Couple problems, williams fire


By jcar302

3 years ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jcar302
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There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

FIRE Q22 position (resized).png
FIRE Q22 (resized).png
FIRE bell - knocker (resized).png

#1 3 years ago

Hey guys, I picked up a really nice Williams fire.

Has a few issues.

The bell doesn't ring and the knocker up there in the cabinet head to the right of the bell doesn't work either.
They are currently unplugged and if I plug them in, they blow a fuse on the power supply board.

It has a switch problem too on #20, but the owner gave me a switch and say there is none currently installed in that spot, i'll worry about that last. Might just be easy.

Any help is appreciated on where to start trouble shooting.

Edit: Both coils move freely and look to be new.

#2 3 years ago

Can you watch those solenoids as you power the game up? If you can, watch those solenoids as you power the game up FOR ONE SECOND then switch it right back off again. If one fires and stays energized, you need to be looking at the driver transistor circuit.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Can you watch those solenoids as you power the game up? If you can, watch those solenoids as you power the game up FOR ONE SECOND then switch it right back off again. If one fires and stays energized, you need to be looking at the driver transistor circuit.

Ok, tried that.
Yes the do fire.

I'm still getting used to reading the manual and schematics.
So I don't know which transistors these two things goto.

Thank you for the reply.

#4 3 years ago

OK. Checking the solenoid table, we see that those two coils are both driven by Q22, and will be selected by the A/C relay.

FIRE bell - knocker (resized).png

And that Q22 is driven by Q18.

FIRE Q22 (resized).png

And that Q22 is located on the board here, if I can read this choppy text.

FIRE Q22 position (resized).png

#5 3 years ago

Awesome,
thank you.

Gotcha, from now on, I goto the solenoid table on page 28, then goto the cpu schematic and just locate whatever transistor the schematic references and just follow the path.

I may have these parts on hand (a couple years ago I manage to fix a bunch of things wrong on my cyclone, but ended up sending it out to fix some things). Gets old real quick waiting, paying to fix it and shipping both ways).
What readings should I take to check them? Should I just compare to know working ones on the board?

#6 3 years ago

I'm not overly confident in testing components in-circuit because it could be affected by a bad component elsewhere in the circuit.

But yes, you can get a clue or indication of failure by simply comparing measurements to adjacent components that are known good.

OR

You can unsolder the trigger wire to those coils and take voltage readings to see if something is turning the driver on, or if it's shorted itself, or something else.

#7 3 years ago

Ok, so here's the update.
I changed q22 (readings didn't match the others) and the knocker works.
But, when I hook up the bell, it shorts it out again.

I also noticed during a test, half the window bulbs are out on the bulb board in the center. The all are on the same circuit and the owner gave me another bulb board for that spot and same results.

Where should I look now for the bell?
The coil moves freely, could it be bad?

Thanks again.
I'm getting there.
Oh and I reversed the ribbon cable so the bends were opposite and the display lit fully. I figured that was the issue so I didn't mention it.

#8 3 years ago

The coil could still be damaged. Also, the diode on it could be bad

#9 3 years ago

Ok, as usual I have to learn things the hard way.

Quoted from songofsixpence:

The coil could still be damaged. Also, the diode on it could be bad

From what I see so far, you are right, which has cost me time fixing the transistor on the board a second time.

So I ran through some test procedures for coils and diodes on I found online and compared readings to that of others and the diode was in fact bad, the coil was good.

So I added a new diode, band toward the hot side (or at least I think so, 2 largers orange/reddish wires, other end is back with faint white stripes). A 1n4004.
It was also wired this way when I bought it, although the soldering job didn't inspire confidence.

Now a new problem, the bell works, but now other coils set each other off. So each time you fire one (including flippers) most if not all go off, so it kicks in more balls, rings bell etc. If I disconnect the bell coil, all is well.

Any thoughts?

Edit: http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/1N4004
In the diagram here it shows the unbanded side on the hot.
So maybe i'm wrong and it was wrong to begin with?

Well, my lack of patience took over, I reversed the diode, blew the transistor.
Thankfully I buy things in packs of 10.

#10 3 years ago

Solved the bell problem here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-one-coil-is-connected-others-fire-randomly#post-3444719

And the lights are really flashers so while they just look like regular bulbs, they don't work in the "all lights" test. They do work in the solenoid test and during the game.

Thanks for all the help.
Joe

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