Couple Harlem questions

Evening. I've been working on my Harlem. Took it from dead to playing without sound. I don't know where this wire is supposed to go (pictured below). Red with grey tracer. Comes from MPU board. It is near the secondary tilt so thinking maybe it goes there, but not sure. I've been following this guide: http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/rep_soundold.html and found that U11 was bad. Replaced and still no sound, but U11 is pulsing where it should. Now, it leads me to replace U10 and I have that on order. I get staticy noise when adjusting volume, so my pots and speaker check out. One other weird thing is that when the game boots, the drop bank coil pulses twice (which I think is normal, but the knocker also fires twice at the same time. Then, when a ball is loaded into the shooter lane, the knocker also fires then. Each time a ball is served to the shooter lane. Now, I'm wondering if this is only happening because the game can sense the sound is out. Not sure there. Thanks for any advice on this one.

20180227_185732 (resized).jpg

#2 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

Do you have the manual and schematics. There is a table somewhere that tells you what the colour code numbers are... red with two greys may be for example 388 ... you find out what the number code is for that wire then find it in the schematic.

For the sound card I don’t think the mpu can ‘sense’ a problem with the card and do something to the solenoids. I have a paragon with same sound card. I’ve only found that the mpu doesn’t boot up if the card is disconnected.

That said, the sound card and solenoids use the same address bus. (Ie...sound card play this note or solenoid card fire this coil. If there is a problem with the select line between the two it may trigger something on your solenoids when it tries to send a tune to the soundcard. Anyone ever seen that?

#3 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

From HGT manual
Red grey is 19

138C6676-7812-43F1-B082-F191CC8C9C67 (resized).jpeg

#4 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

It should be a red-green wire (maybe the green color has gone off/dirty) - it connects onto the lonely diode lug of the slam switch on the tilt board.

TiltBoard_SlamSwitch_small.jpg

#5 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

yup... sounds correct. I couldn't find a 19 anywhere on the schematics. 13 (red yellow) or 14 (red green) on the schematics for tilt and slam switches. There's two red/green wires because one continues on to the Credit Reset per the diagram. Quench's wire is the one on the bottom right. The diode is CR10 that you're connecting it to.

tilt_slam (resized).JPG

#6 6 years ago

BEV

RoyGBev

Little Rock, AR

12y 58,550 360

OP
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:
the drop bank coil pulses twice (which I think is normal, but the knocker also fires twice at the same time

The drop bank should pulse exactly once on power up. That and the multiple knocker further points to a solenoid addressing problem. Use the MPU's solenoid test mode (third press of self-test button) to troubleshoot by comparing the firing solenoid with the number displayed. You'll probably see that the drop reset and knocker both fire more than once during the cycle through the solenoids.

Quoted from srcdube:
I’ve only found that the mpu doesn’t boot up if the card is disconnected.

Paragon will run without the sound board. You may want to disconnect it to eliminate it as a cause in your troubleshooting of the solenoid addressing.

#7 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

Quoted from RoyGBev:
Paragon will run without the sound board.

It's been a while since I was goofing with my soundcard (separate thread). I thought it didn't boot when I disconnected it, but in hindsight I don't recall if I actually played the game when the soundcard was pulled.... maybe I just thought it wasn't booting up 'cause I didn't hear the ditty tune after booting... d'oh! .

#8 6 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,658

The solenoid driver and sound board share the same address lines. The 'bank select' determines which responds. If the BS line is shorted the game will pull coils instead of make sounds and visa versa.

#9 6 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Lots of good info. Thanks. I'll attach that wire and see what happens. I wonder if it was disconnected to make some problem go away. I have a printed pdf to refer to. I'll also run the solenoid test and document. Is this bank select line a particular wire or does this come from the mpu? I have an alltek I can jumper to Harlem if you're thinking the problem is the mpu sending wrong data and ending up with coils instead of sounds.

#10 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

Select line is from the MPU to both the SoundCard and the Solenoid drivers. Here are the places in the schematic (and check the wiring harness page to find the colors of wires etc...). First is where it comes off the MPU, second is solenoid card, third is sound card. Per RoyGBev's recommendation disconnect the soundcard connector when you are debugging the solenoid driver.

soundselectmpu (resized).JPG
soundselectsolenoid (resized).JPG
soundselect (resized).JPG

#11 6 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Alrighty, folks. Ran the solenoid test with and without the sound board connected and no difference in results. Putting the Alltek in made the game only pulse the drop bank once instead of twice, so I guess at least something is going on with that mpu. Now doing the test, it runs 01 to 13. All fire except 02 (and match what the manual says should fire) which is supposed to be the knocker. The knocker fires on 10 along with the drop bank coil. Swapped in my solenoid driver board from Strikes and Spares (known working) and same results. I repinned the wire on J4 of the mpu as well as where it goes on the sdb and I had previously repinned the entire sound connector. It didn't match the color the manual said it should be, but I know things can change during production. No change. Additionally, after a few cycles through the coil test, the game dies. I was thinking a short could cause the knocker to fire when it shouldn't, but thought if that was the case, the drop bank should also fire when the knocker is supposed to.

1 month later

#12 6 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Been a bit, but I did fix the sound. Found a broken trace that was the issue. Still have the issue where the knocker fires when it shouldn't. I have a brand new MPU ordered, so will see what that does.

#13 6 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:
All fire except 02 (and match what the manual says should fire) which is supposed to be the knocker. The knocker fires on 10 along with the drop bank coil.

If you're saying the Knocker only activates at the same time as the Drop Target reset in solenoid test mode (test #10), then the highest probability for this is someone has reterminated the J2 connector at the Solenoid Driver Board and incorrectly put the Knocker (Black-White) wire into position 6 instead of position 5 of J2.

Please check it.

HGT_Knocker.jpg.

#14 6 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Wow, interesting. I will certainly check that when I get home. Thanks, so much.

#15 6 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

Can you force a Special and see if the bank resets when the knocker goes off? The two wires could be shorted and both are firing when either of them do.

#16 6 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Quench:
If you're saying the Knocker only activates at the same time as the Drop Target reset in solenoid test mode (test #10), then the highest probability for this is someone has reterminated the J2 connector at the Solenoid Driver Board and incorrectly put the Knocker (Black-White) wire into position 6 instead of position 5 of J2.
Please check it.

.

This was exactly the issue. Thanks so much. Harlem is working great. And thanks to everyone here that helped point me in the right direction.

#17 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

I hate to be back in here with another issue, but yesterday, the cpu controlled lighting stopped working. I checked the fuses and all are good in the rectifier. Getting 5V at the TP1 on the lamp driver board. If I peer into the coin door, I can see a couple insert bulbs barely trying to light, so it isn't an all out situation, like I've found threads on. Was working fine. Played a bunch of games with friends and went upstairs for an hour. Came back and that was the situation. Grrr.

#18 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:
Getting 5V at the TP1 on the lamp driver

TP1 on the lamp driver board is the board logic power you're measuring, it's not the lamp power.

Measure the voltage at TP1 on the rectifier board which is the power supply for the controlled lamps.
If you get a reading around 0VDC, then check fuse F1.
If you get a reading around 3VDC, then the BR1 bridge rectifier is likely faulty.
If you get a reading around 6VDC, then measure the voltage at the base of the lamp sockets on the playfield - where the bare braid wire connects to all the controlled lamps. Note this is not a ground braid, it is 6V power braid for the controlled lamps. If the voltage is less than what you measured at TP1 on the rectifier board, you likely have a cooked connector issue at pin 7 of J1 on the rectifier board.

#19 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Quench:
TP1 on the lamp driver board is the board logic power you're measuring, it's not the lamp power.
Measure the voltage at TP1 on the rectifier board which is the power supply for the controlled lamps.
If you get a reading around 0VDC, then check fuse F1.
If you get a reading around 3VDC, then the BR1 bridge rectifier is likely faulty.
If you get a reading around 6VDC, then measure the voltage at the base of the lamp sockets on the playfield - where the bare braid wire connects to all the controlled lamps. Note this is not a ground braid, it is 6V power braid for the controlled lamps. If the voltage is less than what you measured at TP1 on the rectifier board, you likely have a cooked connector issue at pin 7 of J1 on the rectifier board.

All that is great info, thanks. I have verified F1 is fine. All fuses are good. This is a brand new rectifier and I repinned all connectors with trifurcons. I will double check the voltage on the rectifier and under the pf tonight. To be clear, I use cabinet ground and the under pf 6v power braid to measure there?

#20 5 years ago

AMR

BigAl56

Pinside+ Frequent

Palatine, IL

7y 64,800 1,658

You should have 6v DC at the common braid at all the switched lamps. Assuming the cabinet is grounded, you can use the cabinet as ground for a voltage reading. Grounding any tab on any lamp should light the lamp.

#21 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Awesome. Thanks again. So I have 6v at the rectifier and at the 6v power braid under the pf. Grounding individual lamps does cause them to light. Still, they don't work in game, attract mode or test. I can faintly make out that the lamps in a V pattern in front of the 2 center spinners are flickering as they would in attract. Should I be looking for a short somewhere?

#22 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

Can you give us a little background on the lamp setup? i.e.
Are you using incandescent lamps or have you replaced them with LEDs?
Are you using the original Bally lamp driver board or have you replaced it with an aftermarket lamp driver board?

If you have 6V at the power braid of the controlled lamps under the playfield, and grounding the tabs of the lamp sockets makes the respective lamps illuminate properly, then it could be a ground issue at the lamp board.

Measure the voltage at TP2 on the lamp board - it should be zero volts.

The larger SCRs (transistor looking things) on the lamp driver board will have a metal tab or the back of them will be metal. If you ground the metal tabs of the SCRs, the respective lamps they drive should light. Try it with SCR Q8, Q9 and Q10 on the lamp driver board. These SCRs drive some of the spinner lamps. Do they illuminate at normal brightness?

#23 5 years ago

PIG

srcdube

Inactive member

Concur with Quench... signals are not going low enough... but if it's all of them it could mean the whole board isn't grounded ... or if the grounds on the SCRs end up on a common track that gets cut before it gets to the edge connector ground pins?

...or the pin 12's on U1,2,3,4 share a trace that doesn't get back to ground?

If it's the whole board and TP2 is not zero volts, you could try to ground the whole board by putting a jumper on TP2 to a known good ground on another board.

#24 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Interesting. Didn't have a lot of time this morning, but I'm getting 4.5v at the ground tp2 instead of 0v. Grounding the transistor tabs do light the lamps. So, I should next jumper a wire from say the sound board ground tp to the lamp driver tp?

#25 5 years ago

PIP

Quench

Pinside member

So you need to find out why the Lamp board is getting poor ground.

There's three ground wires from the power rectifier board to the lamp board. Sometimes the solder at the pin headers on the lamp driver board connectors crack/fracture and need to be resoldered.

FYI, the three ground wires to the lamp driver board are:
Rectifier board J3 pin 3 to the lamp driver board J4 pin 2 (red-black wire)
Rectifier board J3 pin 4 to the lamp driver board J4 pin 1 (white-red wire)
Rectifier board J3 pin 14 to the lamp driver board J4 pin 11 (white-black wire)

LDB_Ground_Connections1.jpg
LDB_Ground_Connections2.jpg
LDB_Ground_Connections3.jpg

#26 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent

Once again, thank you. So awesome. I'll pull the lamp board and reflow those headers tonight. I'm not certain if I repinned that J4 lamp board connector, so I'll do that as well.

#27 5 years ago

RCC

RC_like_the_cola

Pinside+ Frequent