Hey All,

I would love to hear some thoughts on ball counts. Hopefully everyone who wants to will join in. Let me first tell you where my questions spring from...

I have been in the hobby for over a year and (of course!) one table has already turned into two. My first table was a Williams Space Odyssey which came to me set on 5 ball play. I left it that way and it has worked out well on 5 ball play. In June I picked up table two, a Stern Flight 2000. I took it home set on 5 ball play but pretty much immediately switched it out to 3 ball play. I can score in multiples of millions frequently with 3 ball play, so I like it at 3. Also, Flight 2000 was the table that once and for all hooked me on pinball growing up and I feel like I remember it being set on 3 ball play at our local arcade in Warren, Michigan - Walker's Pinball Palace. Shout out to Walker's for making me a Pinball Junkie!

Lately, I have been getting a pretty big push from my casual playing friends who visit to switch F2K back to a 5 ball game. It is mostly down to the multiball being a tough get for casual players at a 3 ball count. I understand this and I am somewhat inclined to make the change, but I would love to hear people's thoughts on the two main questions I have:

1. Is there an easy and reliable timeframe regarding how games shipped. In other words, can any of you older folks with good knowledge of the biz end say "pins were shipped on 5 ball until around 1980 (or whatever) and then the companies switched over to 3" or is it not that simple? I guess I am curious as to whether Stern shipped out F2K as a 5 or 3 ball game. I feel confident that Williams would have shipped Space Odyssey as a 5 ball game in 1976. Let me know if I am wrong about this. Also, how much of this was in variance back in the day due to operator discretion? This question arises from the more rigid, historical accuracy-loving part of me.

2. As a pinball fan/owner, what is your personal philosophy regarding ball counts and what dictates how you set up a table when you take possession of it? Do you prefer the toughness and pain of the 3 ball count or do you like setting tables on 5 balls to give people more of a chance to get further into a rule set or whatever? I am a huge fan of the rough nature of 3 ball play and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the "just one more" factor in pinball. I also worry about more modern games being set on 5 ball counts because I feel like ball times and - of course - game times will increase during group play and decrease people's chances of playing more. This question arises from the more philosophical part of me.

No, I'm not losing sleep. No, I'm not frozen in a state of indecision. I'm just a geek who loves talking about pinball. Hopefully some of you are as well.

Cheers,

SilverBallKid in Motown

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Loving these comments!

Yes, I am aware of how easy it is to change a dipswitch setting. I'm also aware that it's my table and I can do what I want. I was just curious how other people felt about this and what was known about the history of 3 ball taking over inside the industry. Keep 'em coming! Especially those of you who were around and in the biz during the transition. I love that stuff.

Must say I am definitely considering switching F2K out to 5 ball on casual play nights (I host something people now call "Friday Night Lights" on a lot of Fridays) so that the novice players can get more experience on it.

This one really got me thinking. That F2K multiball is tough to get when you are not a regular player and I think moving it to 5 balls, at least when novice players are over, will help people get there and find out how fun it is to have that ball maze kick out all three balls. Great idea!

By the way, CactusJack, your collection is insane. WOW!

Interesting. I am 48, so I honestly don't remember playing any pinball in metro Detroit as a kid/teen/20s that were anything other than 3/50c but I was not usually playing an EM in those days. My EM memories are wispy because I would have been a kid and my Mom or Dad was paying fro me to play! Once I was old enough to scrape quarters up and go to an arcade, early SS was everywhere. I cut my teeth on Gorgar, Freefall, Flight 2000, Firepower, 8 Ball Deluxe, Xenon and such. The EMs were all over on the other side of my local arcade and I avoided them. Eventually, their space was eaten away by more and more of the "new" video games as they came out. It's funny because today I would give anything to pay and play my way through a good-sized bank of EMs. Back then I wanted the new frills of SS.

I can't imagine Space Mission on 3 ball in public. My casual friends can usually get in the 100,000s or 200,000s on my Space Odyssey but their ball times and game are short. I would have felt ripped off as a casual player paying a quarter for 3 balls on that back in the 70s. Yikes!

I'm assuming that the reason they pushed for 3/50c was that if enough operators all moved over to less for more money, the less that players would complain about it.

Awesome! So much fun to read.

I have a friend who has helped me learn how to work on my pins and was a tech for a vending company back in the mid 80s to early 90s. He installs commercial soda systems for Pepsi today. He tells me great stories about what it was like to try to fix pins in dark arcades while kids bugged him about every little thing. He says arcades made sick money around here in his day. One thing he told me was that the first Street Fighter video games in our area in 1988 could easily pull in thousands of dollars each week. One machine, four grand, boom.

I agree about amusement parks vs local arcades. I had several good arcades to choose from in my general area north of Detroit growing up and they were generally well tended. Trips to Cedar Point or Kings Island would lead to playing terribly beaten games in sketchy condition as often as not.

One great pinball place I traveled a lot in my teens and early 20s was Las Vegas. My family's best friends had moved there and we would fly out every couple summers to visit, usually for at least a week. I loved those trips when I was underage because in Vegas in the mid/late 80s they got kind of "family friendly" for a bit. Most casinos had great arcades. My kid brother and I prowled them endlessly playing vids and pins while my older sibs and parents gambles in the casinos. I clearly remember that the first time I played High Speed 2: The Getaway was in Vegas at Circus Circus. I definitely remember Vegas being a 3/50c town.