Nate on Coast 2 Coast broke down an upcoming Stern re-release and IM was at the front of the list. MAYBE X-men or Lord of the Rings?

link if this is archived?

Episode 84 from 5/13.

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-84-my-money-goes-to-or-still-not-buying-fishtails_17365

Ya, but I think the "rerun" he was talking about may end up being MMR. It is technically a rerun of the original game. I can't imagine them doing both between their own games.

Maybe they need 2 inbetween games so they can upgrade the OS/board set of Stern pins? Something to think about.

That thought entered my mind and I hope you are right.

I would be a buyer at 4-5K. I believe Stern could probably pull 500 if the price was in this range. The problem is the upfront costs of the items they need and the Disney license (renewal). I don't see it happening.

IMLE right after MMr on the Stern line. That gives them time to finish their LCD platform

I've heard this is a non-issue and that they already have the rights to use the license.

Just because they are the exclusive distributor of Disney pinball games, that does not mean the license goes on forever. They are typically granted a certain finite period of time (1-3 years) to manufacture a game. They would have to regain that again to continue production. No way is Disney giving away something so valuable as a iconic Marvel Comic's/Disney license. It would be quite expensive.

Retheme IM as TWD. Replace the Iron Monger with a zombie. Where do I send the check?

Terrible idea.

I already have IM. I'd love to have a zombie themed pin like TWD. Please don't deprive me of that opportunity by trying to sell me another IM disguised as something else.

It's not all about you RobT....Sometimes it is all about RobP.

Seriously though, I would prefer a new TWD over a retheme, but baggers can't be choosers.

_{Post edited by PEN: I'm leaving my misspelled word in!}

First beggers and now baggers? What is this world coming to?

I personally have no interest in owning the game.

I play it a lot on route (CP Pinball) but no way in F'n hell I'd pay market for that stripped down game. I'm more of a LOTR & FGY kind of player. But ya know what, errrbody different.

I started noticing Stern doing re-runs when I bought my Tron Pro re-run. Could this year be Iron Man? This past Christmas was AC/DC Premium with the new look ....or could the re-run be a smart move for Stern in between new releases....or does it just eat away at the profit of brand new games?

I wanted a Family Guy re-run, but have just purchased my dream machine when I found a Family Guy for sale via eBay. I'd love a NIB The Simpsons Pinball Party or Lord of The Rings....for everyone else, I think Iron Man would be a great title for a re-run. It's a great theme with a slick look and great game. Come on, Stern. Surprise us all by re-running your greatest games!

Cheers!
Adam.

There are no IM's for sale on eBay, Mr pinball classifieds or here, there is a demand and no supply that is why market prices for used games stands as it does.

I understand that. When i said I heard it wasn't an issue, i was statng so because someone that i believe is a credible source said that it wasn't an issue. I wasn't just assuming like you are. I have no concrete proof, however.

I'm not assuming anything. Marvel has made it publicly known for YEARS that they only release the rights to manufacturers wanting to sell products promoting a CURRENT movie/franchise. This information is not a secret like you suggest.

These items, along with money and a production time frame, are always a part of the licensing agreements when owners and manufacturers negotiate the terms of the deal for any given product. Every step of production must also be approved and monitored so the long arduous process can travel down the road and things don't have to be redesigned over and over wasting time... This is all VERY time consuming and one small mistake could mean turning a profit or losing 100's of thousands of dollars.

Time and money are two major hurdles to overcome here. The profit of running 500 machines has to be higher than the cost and time involved. How much profit do you think they would make after investing all the time and money into producing those 500 machines? How many machines does Stern need to sell to turn a profit on such a venture? I can't answer exactly but there is no way in hell Stern wants to make a game that only sells 500 units. They want to rather focus their efforts on a game that sells closer to 5000 units (like ACDC).

when did the license expire then? You keep speaking in general terms but do you have specific information regarding stern's agreement with marvel? If not, you are indeed assuming.

You're missing the point. Let's say the license never expired. Doesn't matter all that much. It doesn't really change the chances of the game being produced again. From your earlier statement about speaking with people "in the know", it's of little benefit to even have the license in hand when there is, in fact, so much more overhead of cost and approval to consider. Even if they have the license with a simple phone call and absolutely no cost involved, it is but one very small step to pumping out sell-able games again.

I truly think a lot of pinball hobbyist and collectors on this forum incorrectly think it's as simple as a couple phone calls to Disney and pushing a button to make a profit. This couldn't be further from the actual process and time and research before anything at all is even put into consideration, let alone production...

I am trying to keep on topic. I think to the question, "could stern sell another 500 IM pins", the answer is yes... I think they could indeed. However, Stern has VERY little profit to gain (if any) by making a run of 500 games.

Stern could pull a FGY/Shrek and retheme IM as Godzilla. Keep the music and the base rule-set and replace Iron Monger with a Godzilla toy?

But is that demand 10-20 people on Pinside who really love the game? Or actually 500 people who want it?

Remember, this is the stripped down budget title that got a shit reception. Like a cult classic film people kind of discovered it later, and now it's hot with a certain kind of player. You have to be careful to not confuse a vocal minority with big demand though.

I obviously don't know, but I suspect that outside that small group who loves it (and I get why) that the more general public response would be "why are you making your cheap ass title again?". With an "old" license too, it's not current to the films or franchise. Moving 500 might be difficult.

Can't even trade off a nice Attack from Mars to get an Iron Man what is this world coming too. Has Iron Man met Attack from Mars status?

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtt-nice-afm-for-iron-man

they'd be sold out before you knew it.

As much as I want one I think 500 is a tall order.
I could see then making 1-200. But not much more than that.

I agree, but unfortunately there is not enough profit there for them to run that few. Could they sell 2,000? That may be worth it to them at 5K each.

No way would that turn a profit. The games that they made 100-250 of were considered massive failures and lost Stern money.

Sadly play wise I would probably say yes. Had both. AFM fun. IM leaves you shaking.

You do realize that the cost involved with selling the first 100-250 games is much higher than adding onto a game that's already finished. Stern doesn't have to pay anyone to design this game. It's done. Only materials and labor to assemble it. No R&D.

No way, they made over 1,000 Trons total. It takes considerably less effort and cost to produce THE EXACT SAME THING once you have already made 1,000. If you read my previous post, it explains why making 100 games is not profitable... However, 1,100 could be considered a "moderate success".

You can compare the similar serials to determine production numbers here:
ipsnd.net

There are many unknown factors here. I know that Stern had enough parts to make a couple 100 more Tron machines, so then did. If that is the case with Iron Man, they may have followed suit... FOR WHATEVER REASON, they did not... It's all just wishful thinking at this point. Don't read too far in... It all comes down to money (more specifically, profit), not "how many people want to jump on a pre-order/commit to buy list..."

It is not my intention to derail the thread.

Myself and other posts have already explained why this couldn't easily be done.

When it's a re-run low numbers are irrelevant. They re-ran a few hundred Simpsons & LOTR here and there for about 7 years after the games came out initially. Iron Man was almost pure profit from day 1! Borg took his Austin Powers design and probably reworked it in a short time vs. the amount of time it takes to design a game from scratch. The games rules are bare of modes...it probably took Lonnie & Lyman waaaaay less time to code that game vs. rule-beasts like AC/DC or Metallica.

So - you've got a game that cost little to design...little to build (low BOM)...license fee is prob ~$50 per unit. They could 3D print a new Monger. Rebuilding Iron Man would cost very little and be highly profitable, even with low numbers....especially if they release it as an LE and price it accordingly.

Ok, I will play. Let's say it is as EASY as you say and they make 500. Would they do that, or choose to make a game that would outsell that 5 or 10 fold? Obviously they will keep making titles until they are no longer profitable to continue making.

Hopefully this why they are moving/moved to a larger building but I bet not...

They could do both lol. Stern always has about 4 games on the line at any given time. Again - they were re-running TSPP, LOTR, POTC while other, newer games were on the line. Demand is demand, sales are sales.

Stern can do it and has done it...really the true arguments here are "is there demand?" & "will Disney/Marvel/Paramount renew the license?". That's purely speculation on our part.

If it's that easy, why not remake LOTR or POTC or Spiderman all over again (best selling Stern titles)? It's just not as easy as you are making it sound.

Don't take my posts the wrong way. I am a cheerleader, hoping they make the title again. I can only hope though. If I could buy an IronMan playfield from Stern, I may change my tune. They don't have the parts, as far as I know so how are they going to build games without playfield, monger, ramps, ect.? That stuff isn't free to manufacture.

As The Shadow machine says, "You are boring me."

Do I think demand would sell 500 units, yes. Distributors would definitely agree. Would be nice if JJ would chime in (think he is the largest distro on pinside volume wise). Price this the same as a pro like Metallica or Star Trek, home use sales would be an easy 200 at that price (more than just the 20 or so on here that you hear from), route sales would be close to the same. This is an attractive game to look at, quick ball times, with more movies on way with RDJ as IM, I think it keeps good route appeal.

100 for overseas.

They have! Spider-Man was DONE and they put it back into production for a small run in 2010. LOTR had small re-run batches for years until the final 500 LEs! If there is demand, they'll do it. As for LOTR/POTC/Spider-Man NOW -those games have enough units out there to meet demand. You can easily buy those games at decent prices if you look around. Iron Man, on the other hand...has more demand then supply.

Again - demand enough for 250-500 units? Maybe, but that's just speculation.

They did but that was years ago... Those releases usually are RIGHT before a license expires. That's NOT a coincidence.

I don't know. Last few Spiderman's I have seen for sale in the 5-6K range. It's right up there... LOTR not far off that mark either.

they used to only build 50 of TSPP and Elvis every year just before Christmas

As long as the parts and demand is there, then why not build 50?

My best guess is that they can't get enough Mongers rounded up to build the machines. That's off topic, however.

That was always the reason IM stopped production. Lack of Mongers. Still - it's just a bash toy mounted to a mech...create a custom one w/ an LED in its chest and eyes, call it an LE

Apples-Oranges. They've already spent the money on RD, all they have to spend on now is materials and possibly licensing? I don't pretend to know how Stern's accounting department operates, something tells me neither do you or any one else on here

no, it'll cost $3500 more then.

Were you around on pinball forums when IM was released? The pin was not panned on release for being a poor player. And even the "cheap ass title" stuff is overblown. People definitely criticized Stern for things that they did on IM that were "cheap", like the pegs instead of full rails, no question about it. But the game play on Iron Man wasn't something that I recall as being hugely criticized.

People can say that IM has a bare play field, but IM has just as much going on on its play field as AFM does, and I think AFM has a pretty good reputation and is in demand.

And who cares what the initial reaction was?

AC/DC ring any bells? You would have thought nobody was going to buy that title when it was unveiled. The cool thing was to criticize the artwork and the huge face on the pro. I think that one turned out to have pretty good demand.

Geez, I wonder how that happened.

I would argue that AC/DC gained staying power for the opposite reason people like Iron Man though, the depth of the rules as it was updated won people over and it just kept building momentum. Despite that fact that it's an unlovely game to be charitable.

Anyways, I get why people like Iron Man. I haven't played it enough myself, but my impression is it's a bit like Tron, simple and fast and addictive, and I certainly love my Tron. I just wonder if outside of our little Pinside bubble the demand would be there. Sure isn't my call to make, I just doubt it's ever going to happen.