sure... if i can fix one, anyone can... "fear" isn't justified... there is an extensive "how to" guide available for em's (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm), as well as a wiki (http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair), and the em group on pinside is pretty good at providing assistance... if you are williing to put the time and effort into it, there is no reason you can't become a competent em tech in a pretty short period of time...

as far as paying attention to... for all machines, condition and "completeness" (e.g. is it all there or are there parts missing?)... for a complete machine, condition will primarily determine the price...

narrowing down the vintage and manufacturer a bit would help "us" answer the question a little bit better... for example, you can lay your hands on most every part (other than backglasses and plastics) you might need for a gottlieb made anytime since the early 60's (there are certain parts that can be difficult to find, like the coveted 5" gottlieb bell)... this is true of most williams machines as well...

for machines earlier than that, parts availability can be a bit sketchy...

if you have specific machines you are looking at, list the titles, and "we" can give you some better insight...

good luck, and jump on in the pool, the water feels great...

Have a look at some schematics, and study a bit on how to read and use them. If it seems like something that would eventually make sense and can moderately follow along at least, then the rest is just cleaning and adjusting. Don't need to be an expert on the schematics, but it helps a lot to at least be able to navigate them.

Kind of like looking at some shop/repair manuals for cars/bikes before taking the plunge there.

Maybe someone one who owns one will chime in, but think Grand Prix Em's are sort of hard to work on I was told when I consider buying one.

Grand Prix is a pretty complicated em. However if you take the time to learn schematics and how they relate to the game you should be ok. It's really helpful to watch the innards of a working game to see how the relays and score motor interact with each other.

Well, there is a lot going on in Grand Prix but if your interested and not afraid to ask questions you can likely fix it. While I greatly respect the advice above you can fix one of these without being able to read a schematic. It's just a bit more involved.

This http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
and the newsgroup can help you work through most problems.

well, a grand prix would certainly be diving in the deep end, as it is one of the most complex machines made... but it isn't any "different" from any other em in terms of fixing... just a lot more areas to potentially fix...

parts availability shouldn't be an issue... i don't believe there is a repro bg or plastics available (someone correct me if i am wrong) though...

playfields tend to be a bit beaten up on this game, as it was very popular and virtually all of them were routed extensively before being "retired"... bg's tend to be a little flaky...

prices would range from a couple hundred bucks for a beat up project, to over 1k for a really nice example...

df makes a good point... many people will try to "get by" without learning how to read (and understand) the schematics... imo, that's not a wise decision... they really aren't "hard" to understand, but they can be a bit intimidating at first...

fair enough point... you can get by without that knowledge... it makes life harder though...

but i still believe that it is "worth" learning schematics... imo, it makes life much easier, and it is not "hard" to do once you put your mind to it...

the "learning process" also has the benefit of giving a greater understanding of "how things really work"...

imo, ymmv, etc.

If you're mechanically inclined I think you'll be fine. There's less stuff in a single player or even a 2-player machine so those might be easier to start with, but once you learn to read the schematics and understand the general concepts, it more of a matter of time.

I think they're "easier" though sometimes than the newer ones that are all electronics. But that's mostly because EMs are often just cleaning/adjustments to fix things.

if it doesn't need to be fixed don't touch it

LOL, you sure want to dive into the deep end right off, don't you?

Grand Prix might be the most complicated EM ever made. In general, multiplayers can be more difficult to maintain than single players, and Grand Prix is at the very upper end of complicated multiplayers.

However, it's a great game. Good luck whatever you decide.

Grand Prix-
I own one, its got more than a few switches and connection points that run through more than one stepper unit- so its not an easy game to diagnose based upon behavior. You will want a schematic and you will want to learn how to read one. That said- the schematic is available for free as a download at IPDB and the Williams manuals are VERY INFORMATIVE - FAR far more so than Gottlieb of identical year (I know, I have a 1976 Williams and a 1976 Gottlieb). I would say that if your the kinda person that decided they were going to replace the head gasket (or whatever) on their car because it seemed like it would be interesting- so you got the shop manual and did it- you will be 100% fine. Because, there is no way in hell you did that right the first time without having spent enough time screwing up things along the way and dealing with it and pressing on and learning.

There are many ways to make things worse by "fixing" and EM, but in nearly 100% of these cases you have not broken and almost certainly never will actually break anything. All you really can do thats "bad" is put something together bassackwards or screw up an electrical connection. All of that is temporary fixable stuff.

ENJOY-

I taught myself how to work on EM's- there were more than a few evenings with a flashlight and complete confusion but that starts to resolve into a-HA! moments and eventually you see something wrong grab a schematic and fix it in 10-30 mins.

Edit-

I should have said I taught myself how to fix EM's by posting here- to the EM subgroup- and receiving valuable, detailed, timely advice from a number of different people. The EM group here is a bit smaller than the general pinball forum, I would get the game, start a restoration thread there.

Take pics of the game inside and out (everyone likes pinball pics) tell a short story and tell us where your starting on the game and ask questions. Try to keep it to one or two (max) questions per post, listen to people and do the trouble shooting work that people will request and post the results. You will learn fast and I have yet to see a single thread where all that stuff happened and the game is still broken- it will work- no matter what- Just remember, your getting help from people who are not there, maybe 1/2 or more of the posts might end up chasing down the wrong part, sometimes people will send you in the wrong direction- but in every case, if you try to work with a schematic and chase down any reasonable suggestion, even if its wrong, you will have taught yourself about some other part of the machine.

And almost universally, eventually someone who knows their stuff will chime in- In general- people working off schematics fix things far more easily. So if someone posts a schematic and highlights a circuit thats labeled with your problem, pay attention.

I would start with a working, (for the most part) machine. One with maybe a few small problems since some of the time EM's just need a thorough cleaning of contacts and such. When you feel comfortable, then you can dive into bigger projects. Yes, there will be more!! Machines tend to multiply!!

I have two 1974 machines, about 2 years now. If you're good at looking at things, anything, and simply figuring out how they work, that really helps. I've fixed a number of issues myself, one time with help from a pinside friend. Clean the machine, replace bulbs, get comfortable taking the glass off and looking "under the hood". Then check the backbox too, learn to take off the backglass to replace bulbs.

I suggest you find a machine that fully works. Maybe $500 - $900, you'll pay more for better condition or lower game count / mileage. If a few minor features don't work, you can deal with those by tinkering and using this site. I like games with the more normal size flippers, rather than 1960's machines with the shorter flippers. Just a preference.....I say go with mid-1970's. Still EM, but not TOO old, lol.....

And parts are readily available on ebay. I've collected a bunch, BEFORE I need them. You know, then you have them

Don't "fix" a machine like this. Soldering is not hard or time consuming....

I'm guessing no.
Did I win ?

Edit : Twas a joke. I'm slowly falling in like with EM's.
The bells and chimes are growing on me.

Duct tape! Who needs solder

I bought my first EM machine around 2001 for $25.00. Stumbled onto PBresource and marvin3m by accident, watched a couple of the TOP DVDs, and within a few months, turned a piece of trash into a working machine. Was it perfect? Not at all. I made mistakes along the way, screwed up some contacts, did stupid things like adjusting the bottom of a switch. We all have and things still stump me sometimes (right now I have a score reel that doesn't always carry over that I can't get adjusted perfectly, for example).

I'm by no means an expert and still feel like a newbie when it comes to fixing these machines. Gottlieb schematics still look like hieroglyphics to me for the most part, and I would never work on someone else's machine for fear of doing more harm than good.

If you're somewhat mechanically inclined, EMs aren't all that hard to figure out. You can diagnose many problems with your eyes. If you know how to solder (I still suck at soldering, but can solder a wire), know what a DMM is, don't mind doing a ton of cleaning and are okay with having to make minute mechanical adjustments, you can do it. Getting something that's been rotting away in a barn working again after 30+ years is a very rewarding experience.

Once they are dialed in they work great for years, bought a Spirit of 76 in 2006 other than one repair and a going over at Expo 07 it has worked flawlessly since, not one breakdown, only cleaning bulbs and new rubber around 09, and where are we now 2015? still works perfect! EMs in my opinion are more reliable. If bringing a game to a show I worry a lot more about my SS games than if I bring an EM.

Don't Fear the Relay

More Cowbell!!!

Tom

yes