Well, love it or hate it, I want to applaud all parties for resisting the urge to start a post with...

"Well, we know you HATE ghostbusters, but..."

I've never played Stars before, if you guys say its fantastic I'll take your word for it, especially if NP vouches for it

Play what you like

Been checking out Pinside for a year, mostly this summer to follow the Ghostbusters release. I finally got to play it today on location, a pro model, and loved it. So much that it inspired my first post on the forum so here we go... when I walked up to the machine I was relieved that the city, ramps, and book stacking captive ball features were further back from the flippers than I perceived from looking at topdown pictures. This means more open space in the lower playfield and a nice balance to the populated top, but more importantly a bit more time to react to ball returns from missed shots, pop exits, and fast orbit. Once playing, I enjoyed the combination of rewarding flow shots and time to catch your breath in the pops or scoop/saucer. Played a dozen or so games, started some modes, got multiball going, and slimer turning inserts green. Great sound, callouts, and lighting. Didn't mind the flipper gap, and had very few lane hops or airballs. Only wish would be to have a wider right ramp entrance. Can't wait to play again to figure it out more and enjoy the ride.

Played this game on location at yestercades in Nj and loved it even though it played a little too fast for my tastes. Played it on location at robot city in NY and it felt a little slower than the other one but still fast. It also had a shaker motor installed and thought it was amazing and played the most fun game of pinball I've ever played on it. Easily one of my favorite DMD's.

I will let you know when the game's industry production exceeds 20K units for a commercial "modern" pinball machine.
This is the a good benchmark of "best" or "successful".
(Not "Baffle Ball" (25K), or any other earlier table top gambling games of the 1920s)

My personal pinball crystal ball based on experience say NO.
The market whether operator or private cannot support such a potential claim now.

It is a good comparison to Trudeau's other best title, CFTBL, and production will reflect the same number of units.
Meaning around 8K at most.
Even Stern's LOTR did not break 10K and that had 9 production runs!

Probably about the most entertaining thing about this thread is the 1000s of times I have heard this exact statement every time a new machine is released since I was reading newsgroups starting in 1994 with a dial up modem.
Before that the only way to figure out what truly was successful was being part of a dealer, distributor, industry, manufacturer, or operator.
Records were recorded but even harder to figure out, because many times the books were not even kept straight.
Gottlieb was an excellent example in the 1950s and 60s.

I'm sayin Baffle Ball anyway...

Is GB the next Baffle Ball ? Hell no.

Yes! It is always the shiny new toy that gets peoples attention and the need to justify the cash spent on the shiny new toy. Have off the posts here are people trying to rationalise spending thousands on toys.

The other 1/2 are just haters that have nothing better to do than rain down a shit storm on somebody else's excitement.

We know what we have, and "Haters are gonna hate".

Actually I am still quite excited about the TAF success in pinball history with production over 20K nearly 24 years ago, and the fact it has still has not been touched.
I look forward to seeing a game best it.
It would glorious, and beckon a new era in pinball history.
If that is the definition a shitstorm, I welcome it.

You aren't suggesting any pin will ever crack 20k again are you? 10k?. How much was the TAF out the door?

Ghostbusters will eventually be one of Stern's top sellers, to be followed by Star Wars of course. Young and old love this theme.

A game could come out today and be 50x as awesome as Addams and still not sell a fraction of that number. Addams was the right game at the right time. It benefited greatly from coming out during the early 90's arcade resurgence. Street Fighter 2 and all the other great games made arcades hugely popular social destinations ...and those arcades needed games...vids and pins! Addams was amazing and groundbreaking at the time, but there were also tons of locations that needed games. Not so much anymore. Even though we're in a nice pinball comeback, the arcade as we knew it is dead and gone....so, even the best pin ever will never reach those sales numbers.

Mata Hari sold over 16,000 units. Right place, right time. Number of units produced shouldn't be an indicator of greatness...

Addams Family was helped by a loose license (not just "scenes from the movie: the game"), clear, visible ruleset with easy payout for beginner players, and vivid, funny callouts.

I am not great at pinball, but I have no problem with my GBPro. For those complaining about the flipper gap, hang in there.

Enthusiasts might want to check out earnings tables for TAF including today for operators. They are not insignificant.

Not to mention the it remains one of the most bought and sold machine titles on the secondary market for home use, which is not based on production.

It also one of the few titles that had special edition made before the age of Stern "LE". A few other titles were Fire! Champagne Edition and Black Knight Limited Edition.

Finally, this was was one of a few titles that was marketed DIRECTLY for the home market. Do people know that over HALF (500+) of the collector's edition were purchased for home use and it was still a commercial machine?

This title is far from outdated.

These results and notes of interest might provide some additional indication of the definition of a successful title.

No comments are based exclusively on production.
My observations are not random comments.

These are the answers to the question, "what was I thinking".

Knowledge provides more than experience.

Addams is awesome, but I'm sure it still earns well due to reputation. It's a legend & there's a lot of nostalgia for it. Everyone knows it. Everyone who discovers my hobby for the first time asks if I have Addams. It's the "Pac-Man of Pinball".

I get asked by non-pin afficianos if I have a DE Star Wars AKA "that pinball game that has a cool hopping R2D2".

I tell them I sold it 15 years ago, as I prefer Twilight Zone anyway.
They say what's Twilight Zone?

When I get asked about pinball, the ones
I get asked about by total non-pin guys are Star Wars, Jurassic Park and strangely, Gilligans Island.

rd

for me TZ and TAF have always been the greatest games ever made. I've gone back and forth on which one is better, but they are so close it's hard to put one ahead of the other. Only reason I deem TZ a little better, is because it has some better toy ideas. The power ball, magnetic playfield, gumball machine are just a little better than, playfield magnets, thing, and bookcase. but both are awesome and if it wasn't for TAF, many of us probably wouldn't even be here today.

I hadnt turned TZ on in about 8 months, but did so last not after a bunch of GB.
(Watched a Z Nation Marathon, as it Premiers Sept 16th...shameless Plug)
So TWD was not getting my time yesterday. Always nice to discover an old friend and in many ways
a similar "feel" to GB.

First games that got me hooked were High Speed and Cyclone, but no doubt Addams was the one that REALLY got me into it a few years later.

Who is Ghostbusters gonna hook? Nobody. It's great for people who love the theme but no novice is gonna play a couple games on it and then start seeking out every machine they can to play, which is what happened with countless people with TAF.

Will not be the best ever...but could be "one of the greatest" if it holds the tests of time in 5-10 yrs from now

Well you know what Sammy Hagar says:

"Only time will tell if we stand the test of time."

It's a shame ...with some testing and refining, and not locking themselves into a linear and frustrating mode concept ...GB *COULD* have been the next Addams. I'll settle for it just being fun at this point. Update update, please come soon!!!

The Hagar-gument.
It's a one way ticket to midnight madness.

I love my GBLE. Sure I needed the outlane/post kit to add because hell, I want to enjoy it and let my family enjoy it too. It's still really difficult. Too many airballs. Slimer "over registering". I emailed Chas to ask how to best adjust, but I really don't have an issue with the code.

SKILL SHOT:
The skill shot choices are fantastic. You can choose which ladder you want to climb. I love it. I have MET and it's great, but the skill shots kind of stink compared to GB. So do my IJ. Hey wait. Come to think of it, I'd rather have GB-like choices any day. I love the fact that you can earn 10% of your score with a proper skill shot too.

MODE "LADDERS":
Honestly, I don't have a problem with it. This isn't "Road Show linear." Start with a different ladder, if you want! The way the scoring is structured, I don't see how they could randomize the modes within a ladder. WBTD requires 3 shorts and is worth 21MM max. As you go up that ladder, other modes require more shots and a worth more. If you randomize, this is now all out of whack. I don't mind it.

POPS:
OMG the Gozer pop can keep the ball up there for approximately 26 minutes. That might be a little exaggerated. Could be 24. They should've caught this. Nudge it out if you want.

SLIMER:
I love how he's integrated. With the outlane fix, I don't have ghost target drain issues. I'll have to adjust him b/c he's over registering, but no biggie. His butt hits the captive ball top a little but just barely.

CENTER LADDER MINI MODES:
It's a big plus to have this secondary ladder of mini awards/modes to work towards. You can not even start a mode, but work up towards mass hysteria, which as a wizard mode, sucks. The flippers reversing is too much. It's over way too quick.

MAGNASLINGS:
I can't believe these were the things we were all worried about and turns out, they're one of the best things on the game. SO much better than the PRO. You might have a pro that is playing well, but the cheap drains must be frustrating. LE/PREM is better.

PLAYFIELD ISSUES:
No ghosting here at all. Clear is great. Every insert looks fantastic. Received the game 5 weeks ago.

It must be a nostalgic thing for STARS, but for me, hitting 5 shots and wailing on a spinner is not very fun. I'm really happy with GB so far.

if it's staying in the pops that long, you do not have enough pitch on your game. Set it at 7 degrees on the playfield and it should be out in no time. Just played a premium on route and it didn't stay in the pops anymore than my AC/DC or TF does.

Who plays Stars like that?! That Bowen guy?!

I love to approach Stars with the bonus - inlane passing to build it up and then drops for 2X. Once I've built up a nice bonus bank, then I'll start to chase the STARS targets. It's really not much of spinner game for me that's not how I like to approach it.

And best of all, Stars is ready to kick ass out of the box, you don't need to add silly mods to it just to make it playable!

Nothing nostalgic about it, as I was 3 when it came out.

Really enjoyed my games on a GBpro last night. Awesome to look at lots to shoot at. Love the tighty righty ramp.

Playfield issues aside I don't see what's to hate about it.

Best ever? Not as long as Hobbit exists

Ew.

Your taste is...suspect.

Opinions are like as..., well you get the picture!

Actually, that's like, super duper nostalgic!

Ummm ... Playfield issues?

rd

Touché

For the record - it's super frustrating to hear people constantly mispronounce the word as "fustrating". He first "r" is NOT silent!!!

both hobbit and GB are still in the new pussay stage. You can't say anything that is under 5 years old is best ever. Need at least a 5 year run, to see if it holds up over time to even have a chance to compete with the tried and true games.

I agree with that Neo. I think it will hold up great over time. It's kick ass fun.

No such thing as "the best ever", unless you are talking about Michael Jordan

TWDLE and GBLE are never leaving for me. Everything else is subject to ejection (except NBAFB)

If sales are any indication, GB will go down as one of Stern's top sellers imo, especially as these premiums start to hit the streets and people figure it out.

Or out of production... lets see what happens with ST when this last run is finished.

Could "I'll Fall in Love Again" be the greatest song ever ?

Probably not.
HA ! Of course it is.

We don't have to wait, I can tell you about ST now. Blows

Tell that to thith guy...
thee what Im thayin (resized).jpg

I don't know, after a long time in the hobby, I think I can spot winners (Ghostbusters, AC/DC, Tron, WoZ, etc.) and losers (The Hobbit, WWE, The Avengers) pretty quickly. The only time that it's really hard to tell is when the code is real young. Ghostbusters has pretty mature code, and it's not going to change dramatically, but Metallica was a snoozer until it got its updates in place, and it changed that game a lot.

The only game I'm really waiting to judge based on code right now is KISS (not impressed so far), and I'm slowly starting to accept that even with great code it's just never going to settle in as a great game. Ghostbusters has such a great layout and shot geometry to it. It's starting from such a good place.

Kiss was a rushed game that will appeal to Kiss fans who don't know any better. Code schmode, Kiss's problem is that it has a giant head that does nothing. A spinning disc that you can't see & also really does nothing....aaaaand that's it!!! It's a relatively featureless game. If you get the Prem/LE you get a twitchy Starman that does nothing and a magnet trick that does nothing. It's a game for hardcore Kiss fans only, pinball fans can find better fun for their money

Compared to Kiss, GB has way more awesome toys and features ....but great layout and geometry!?!? Every exit down the center. Orbit exit gate that doesn't stop guide ricochets down the center. Scoop kick down the center. Mega tight shots. Airball city. I just said Kiss is for hardcore Kiss fans....right now GB is for diehard GB fans (like me lol, I'm a sucker). I'm still gonna be naive and hope a nice code update can elevate GB to a higher plane of existence. Kiss is a lost cause, IMO...but I still hope the code gets finished for those who have it.

nobody can. Tron didn't do that welll in the beginning, Either did Ironman. Now look at them. Sometimes games are shitty the first couple years or decades, then become a huge hit. Like CV and TZ. Couldn't give those games away back in the day.

Not in my games room

Happy 50th Star Trek !