That's what you want. Many people think Meteor is boring or too easy because they haven't played one set up like this.

Maybe. But that was sort of a mixed contract job/Stern mashup. Maybe if they had pitched it differently, and made it say 500 Limited Editions at $6000, it would have sold better.

I'm sure if you redid a good, fast SS game like Seawitch at a good price, you'd sell a hell of a lot more than 150 of them.

rd

An example of a $40 brain for reissued Stern Classics that could run a few $6 mosfet boards.

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You are the one who educated me about the plastic rings and, yes, PBR is stocked out. I would not think the plastic rod/rings would be too hard to put back into production, but I could be wrong because the inferior metal rod/rings is all you can buy; I know that sounds strange as I say it because, today, anything that can be made of plastic is made of plastic because it is easier/cheaper to produce.

I don't think larger holes for plastic bases would be hard to effect, and there is always that plastic base plate that Bally used that would work.

Speaking as an outside observer, or Monday morning quarterback, from a technical standpoint I don't think any of the classic Sterns would be a production challenge for Stern or any other shop with a pinball assembly line.

The devil is in the details. Which classic Stern would would offer the best sales possibility? Some want Stargazer. Some don't. Ditto for all the titles.

The great unknown is how many units would Stern need to produce to make it economically feasible? Assume Stern figures out that number but wants to shift the financial risk to you/us by requiring a hefty deposit from you/us for production to begin.

How many would gamble with a deposit of $2000.00, or more, to obtain the classic Stern of their dreams? If you had to put down money up front and bet on Stern to deliver your favorite classic Stern, would you do it? Considering the issues other pinballers have had with making up front deposits, would you still do it?

And if you would still consider gambling your money that your favorite classic Stern would be built, which one is your favorite that you would gamble on? Which classic would give Stern the biggest bang for its buck?

I suppose I would write an advance check for a Quicksilver, or a Big Game to get the ball rolling (no pun intended).

All right, everybody. Stand up. Raise your hand. Would you gamble? Which machine?

I got to play a Whoa Nellie at Cactus Jack's in Oklahoma City. I did not care for it at all. Too slow and like to drain too easily. I fed it twice and moved on.

Seawitch.

rd

Let's just say for a second that this is actually done, and Stern re-runs some of their classic games:

How would this effect the current industry? I imagine that private collectors would be the target audience, but would operators be able to cost effectively vend these on location? Since retro things are white hot right now, I'd imagine that some may be able to.

Would they take sales away from other, bigger, more expensive games on the market? Imagine the precedence it would set to have reruns potentially made from Bally. Games like Fathom or Centaur.

I'm more or less playing devil's advocate, but it's still interesting conversation.

I think it would work quite well, depending on price. I know I would be in for Quicksilver, Stargazer and Meteor oh and then Nine ball, seawitch etc etc.

Stern is cranking out their current lineup of pins as fast as they can make them, they have a few potential blockbusters waiting in the wings (SW), as well as VE editions that people are clamoring for (TRON, AC/DC), so I don't see them doing this anytime soon.

I would pay $2500 for a brand new Seawitch. Probably even $3000.

No multiball. Keep the rules as they are now. In fact instead of porting the source code to some bespoke platform just buy the existing replacement boards from like rottendog in bulk.

I still don't think it's possible. Someone above just outlined a $2500 BOM and that's not including labor. I feel like labor is the big cost here and that the BOM for a Seawitch is not significantly different than a low coil count pro like AC/DC. The difference is expectation: Seawitch looks simpler therefore should cost less in collectors minds but given a fixed labor cost it really isn't cheaper

Ahh.. you might want to read that again. That was Vid speaking and this is what he said, "The Pin by Stern had a much larger BOM than those old 70s titles, and even with the licensing, they were sold for $2500 shipped to your door.
No reason that Stern could not simply re-issue those titles for $2500 each."

Perhaps they could. But consider that they take up production line space & time. If they are cranking out $7500+ pins as fast as they can make them, why would they offer a $2500 pin that they would make less $$ on & slow production of the more expensive pins that are selling well?

You're going to need 20 of those boards then...

Nine Ball has the target mech, the trough. Also many of them have memory drops, which means tons of coils. Nine ball drop bank = 9 coils x $10, eight targets, 12+ separate pieces of metal. Pop bumpers are available, but they're $50 each new. Sling mechs are close. Obviously you can save a bit in bulk, but. Don't forget tons of custom ball guides. People will want original looking coin doors. Need a power supply, speakers, posts. That BOM is missing closer to $1000 in parts than nothing. And you need custom tooled machines to make all these things, you're not doing it by hand. Then factor in labor cost for assembling everything, wiring it, testing it.

Can you build an old Stern for <$3000 by yourself? Sure. Can you set up a line to do it in bulk? Not with much profit.

No, I don't think it would be a profitable run for any Classic Stern. There is a limited demand for very good, or restored ones. Most people want cheap player pins. I'm just finishing up the very slow run of Star Gazer playfields over the last 3 years, & starting up Seawitch ones. Backglass is a lot less work, & playfield production is extremely hard. Here is pictures of the over run 20 playfields for Star Gazer. Things have been slow with my health problems the past few years, & will continue on while I wait for right hip surgery.

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I actually asked Gary Stern that exact same question. He said remakes of old Stern titles are not going to happen since the production cost would be about the same as for the new titles and he can't see selling significant numbers of them in that price range. According to him the drop target banks are very expensive. ...anyway, that's what he said.

Not for coil driver replacement in classic Stern M-200 titles such as Meteor and 9-Ball (same as Bally -35) uses 19 power transistors. You only need 5 of the 4-FET boards.

stern sdb (resized).jpg

If there is a market for the home model and that could be profitable then there is an equally profitable market for classic Stern's IMO.

That's right. If they are making money on the Spider-Man Home edition at $2999, then they'd be making money on Classics at say $3999 retail.

rd

I wish Gary Stern would agree with you. I'd be in for a Quicksilver or Stargazer. Already have a Seawitch.

Limited people interested in the headache of doing a full restore perhaps, but way more demand than supply for the top classic Sterns.

You guys keep confusing retail pricing with manufacturer's pricing.

A playfield is $600 retail, yet in quantity, CCC charges $200 for them.

A flipper baseplate is $11 retail, yet .90 cents in quantity.

A cabinet is $1000 retail, yet a fully decalled cab is $425 in bulk.

If Stern can manufacture The Pin, with speech, multiball, LED lighting, ramps, movie licensing, Spike MPU, drop targets, and make a profit at $2500 delivered, they can certainly remake the unlicensed, simpler Classic Sterns for the same price.

Not at all. I have no issues with space, and the money I'd save is not worth it to me. I want separate games.

Cheetah
Ali
Catacomb
Hot hand
Trident
Magic
Lectronamo
Flight 2000

Agreed. There is zero value to swappable for the classics.

Also, there would be massive engineering costs to develop, test and deliver such a mod. It's a complete non-starter.

How do you handle display location when swapping backglasses?

-OR-

Is your idea to replace the backglass with either a translite or plexi and use something like an LCD/DMD located in its traditional place to display scores?

I know many collectors would groan if translites or art-screened-on-plexi was used vs. glass. However, if you're swapping out playfields, you'll be swapping glasses ... and those glasses are pretty fragile.

Another issue is people are REALLY into cabs these days...the whole presentation is a big deal. Think aboot how many threads there are on new heads and cab styles...and dare I say power switch locations
And past that is the only real thing we have on that end these days is Heighway...and those cabs are not great looking.

Didn't the pin retail for $3999? If any sold at $2500 delivered, it was on closeout. Who was selling them $2500 delivered?

I bet it's more hassle than it's worth to crank out low margin stuff like the pin. It's probably the same for early sterns. They're great games and collectors love them but why take up time on the line making a $3000 game when you can make a $5500 or 6500 game?

I would pay $3500 for a Seawitch or Star Gazer if they played identical to the originals.

That's impossible. Those originals you've played have like 50 thousand plays on them.

Why wouldn't they try ONE? Pick the most widely appealing theme. Market it towards the home market like The Pin. And maybe get a few more sales from the hardcore fans.

Stern didn't think Iron Man VE was going to be a success and look how that turned out.

Seawitch or Stargazer can't sell worse than all of the versions of The Pin or WNBJM.

If they can make two or three in the time it takes to make one $5500 or $6500 game, they would be coming out ahead. Playfield assembly has to be the most time consuming part of constructing pins, right?

I played a Seawitch just a few weeks ago that had a recently installed NOS playfield in it. That's the feeling I would want in a re-issue. I don't want something with modern flipper mechs and power and super crazy thick clearcoats. Get it to feel like a classic should feel and I would be happy.

Me either. Fun to discuss though.

Well there ya go. I agree 100%. I've played some high end restores of games I love and they have played like shit.

Ummm...When do you expect this playfield...been going on for 4 years. I gave up.

If I was pitching the lower price point to Stern, I would try to get some data on how many games are sold at prices between $2500 and $4000 at shows, ebay, pinside and any other second hand market. That has to be a big piece of pie.

I'm not interested in the swappable model. As others have said, there would be a lot of engineering cost.

Come play my Centaur, and tell me what you think. All original mechs, restored with new parts, cc pf.

Seawitch playfields late this year. Just have to get yellow arrows made, or sub them. All the other lenses are here.

I want to bad. Let's get something together soon. Haven't been over in while.

Anytime. All you have to do is ask...and bring beer.

Amazon and Costco had tons of them, and they were NOT on closeout.

Here is picture from Costco @ $2499

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Not interested in swap model. I like having all my pins on and move back and forth when playing

You just put the old backglass back in the box that the new one came in.

If the numerical displays are in different positions, you just move them over to a new set of pre drilled holes.

The displays don't have to be 2 piece, right-angle boards anymore.

A single board display (like The Pin's displays) is all that's needed.

Yeah, and then you need to drive sixty lamps. "just hook some fets up to a rpi" is so drastically over-simplifying it's just silly