(Topic ID: 146244)

Cost for high-end restore?


By VolunteerPin

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 44 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Chet
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

My IJ has a very nice playfield and fully works (except for a lot of mode start kick outs). It could probably use a new cab and decals.

What would be an estimated cost for me to have a nice high end restore done on it? It doesn't have to be over-the-top but something with new cab, CC playfield, maybe some brass, etc. If I did this it would be to keep it for a long period of time. I've not looked at doing this before so am just curious.

#3 3 years ago

Ya, I would figure 6-7k or more depending on what you want done.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

In the recent restoration thread here, looks like the figure was around $6k.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/creature-porn-a-bryan-kelly-restoration

As Bryan stated in that thread;that included the base game. Quote pulled from the thread:

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Labor wasn't $6000. That figure was labor and the cost of the base game.

#5 3 years ago

Depends on how much work the playfield and the cabinet needs.

125-200 for new plastics
200 for new LED's
800-1200 for cabinet repair and new decals
1000 for touched up and cleared playfield
1000 for new brass (hinges, side rails, legs, bolts, gun)
Labor to put it back together
then you have the odd ball stuff on the playfield like wire forms, targets, etc that might need to be replaced

You could probably get it looking nice for around 4K, full high end would be 6-8K.

#6 3 years ago

Lots of variables. Who is doing the labor? How many new parts do you need? How filthy is the game? I'm sure a call to Keller/Kelly/TreasureCove/HEP could give you a ballpark and/or range, but I know in all cases, it depends on what the game needs, and how expensive your tastes are.

#7 3 years ago

I don't know if you would consider my restorations high end, but everyone I do is done as if it was my own. I am presently doing some restores for a friend on some early Bally SS machines. This includes the playfield swap with all components rebuilt as needed, cabinet repair and repaint and electronics upgrading (Pins, plugs, chip sockets and power supply). I am doing these for $1500 plus parts....and frankly given the amount of time, it is just not worth it to me. After I complete these I won't do any more other than for myself.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Depends on how much work the playfield and the cabinet needs.
125-200 for new plastics
200 for new LED's
800-1200 for cabinet repair and new decals
1000 for touched up and cleared playfield
1000 for new brass (hinges, side rails, legs, bolts, gun)
Labor to put it back together
then you have the odd ball stuff on the playfield like wire forms, targets, etc that might need to be replaced
You could probably get it looking nice for around 4K, full high end would be 6-8K.

Labor will be from $3k-$6k if he sends it to a restorer of note. Add to that, shipping it there and back.

#9 3 years ago

IJ is a great candidate. If mine was in worse condition than it is I would seriously consider it. Plus if you ever did sell it a HEP IJ will move when some other titles might be tougher.

#10 3 years ago

i wrecked my yugo yesterday, how much will bodywork cost?

#11 3 years ago

Yeah...my IJ restoration cost me 150% of what the machine cost me. Ouch.

But you do it once, and keep it for a lifetime.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Labor will be from $3k-$6k if he sends it to a restorer of note. Add to that, shipping it there and back.

The price I listed for the playfield and the cabinet included labor. It obviously could cost more depending on the person you choose to do the work and the condition of the game. There are several people within driving distance so I would not ship a game unless there was one specific person that I had to have work on it. There are a lot more people that do good restores then the 3 or 4 that you see on pinside. That's taking nothing away from the people on pinside that do them, they are all excellent at it.

#13 3 years ago

I always tell people, parts and labor are going to be somewhere between $6000 and $7000. It can be more, if you get carried away with mods. Cost is also the same, no matter the title. The same work has to be done to them all.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I always tell people, parts and labor are going to be somewhere between $6000 and $7000. It can be more, if you get carried away with mods. Cost is also the same, no matter the title. The same work has to be done to them all.

So no change in price between a Bally/Williams dmd, and a early Bally/stern solid state game? Interesting.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I always tell people, parts and labor are going to be somewhere between $6000 and $7000. It can be more, if you get carried away with mods. Cost is also the same, no matter the title. The same work has to be done to them all.

A little bit OT, but what is the most recent machine you have completed a full restore for? Have you done any post 2000 Sterns?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I always tell people, parts and labor are going to be somewhere between $6000 and $7000. It can be more, if you get carried away with mods. Cost is also the same, no matter the title. The same work has to be done to them all.

I think you just accused me of getting carried away with mods, sir!

#17 3 years ago

Good question. Interested in getting my Funhouse restored. Needs new head. I know it would be cheaper just to buy another game but would like to own just one high quality restored game.

#18 3 years ago

I would do it for half of what Bryan charges... of course im not a restorer and it would look like crap, but what a bargain! Lol.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

So no change in price between a Bally/Williams dmd, and a early Bally/stern solid state game? Interesting.

I should have said, that's strictly Williams/Bally DMD style games. I've never done a solid state game. I don't see the price being a whole lot different though.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

A little bit OT, but what is the most recent machine you have completed a full restore for? Have you done any post 2000 Sterns?

Most recent would be CC, but that was a long time ago. I don't think there are many restorers doing CC, MM, AFM or MB's any more.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

I think you just accused me of getting carried away with mods, sir!

Yes, but short of the hydraulics I had installed, they were very tastefully done.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I should have said, that's strictly Williams/Bally DMD style games. I've never done a solid state game. I don't see the price being a whole lot different though.

Good to know. Thanks!

#23 3 years ago

Seems like one of those "if you have to ask" sort of things. It would be cheaper selling yours and buying one in better condition. Restoring is for when cost is not an issue and you want the nicest one around.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

i wrecked my yugo yesterday, how much will bodywork cost?

I just read that Yugo is starting production on a newer and bigger model..called the Wego.

#25 3 years ago

I am not sure what "High end Restore" really means. I guess it is the anal civil engineer in me that just hates vague terminology instead of detailed punch list/specifications. FTW,
Here is what I just finished on my WW restoration. The game had been re-imported at some point and some hacks done to some underplayfield boards and to the interconnect board that were not serious, just needed correction.
List of things done:
Base game cost 1600-- about 6 years ago.
New CPR Repro playfield a 10 hour roundtrip drive to inspect and pickup the PF ( I was on the CPR list for 1.5 years but did not get "the e-mail from them" before they sold out so I looked for one for over a year and paid a little premium for it but it was fair).
Applied three coats of Minwax water based Polycrylic satin to under side of new PF
New PPS Nex Gen V2.0 cabinet decals 255
New legs and leg levelers from PBL 70
New extended leg bolts 5
New inside cabinet corner leg bolt brackets installed 20
New outside corner metal cab protector brackets from PBL(I doubled these up to get legs completely off the new cab decals the single ones are just too damn thin from PBL) 30
New ball trough bracket 10
New back cabinet hinge and latch 6
New drop targets and new drop target decals 25
Underplayfield Scoop and VUK assemblies re-welded and polished
New Main and right ramps and decals from Pinball fantasy 220
New white cabinet topper and decals from Pinball fantasy 80
New lift ramp and steel flap ( I make the flaps myself from blue sheet steel and and my rivet press) 25
New CPR PF plastics-- all PF Plastic signs/habitrail brackets and ramps with metal brackets were riveted as they were from factory originally 150
New Pinbits PF plastic protectors 25
Cliffy main ramp, Scoop and ball shooter lane protectors 70
New flipper bats 10
NOS translite from PBL 50
New translite glass lift channel molding and side and top molding 10
New PF Glass 25
New cabinet PF glass slide moulding 5
All coils cleaned and new coil wrappers installed
Installed new Coils and flipper rebuild kits from PBR on all flippers 125
All PF steel ball guides polished with Scotch brite, buffed cleaned and waxed
New Pop Bumper caps 24
All six pop bumper completely rebuilt with all new parts, Lamp sockets, flipper rings, wafers, bases, coil plungers, springs, steel and fiber yokes, spoons, switches, bumper caps rebuilt 100% with all new parts (guess 50)
New slingshot kicker arms and new slingshot switches 35
New pF scoring switches 15
100% new Plastic Star Posts 15
All metal posts Berry polished
Under playfield assemblies rebuilt with new parts, plungers links, sleeves and I converted to crimped Molex connectors for quick disconnects/ ease of assembly and and future cleaning
all PF and backbox Wire harnesses removed and hand cleaned
lamp sockets cleaned/some replaced
Some PF micro switches replaced
Whirlwind spinning disk mechanism completely dissambled, cleaned.
Whirlwind fan cleaned, cabinet mounting bracket cleaned, sanded and painted with Eastwood Silver Argent Wheel paint and cleared
All metal brackets and PF assemblies cleaned with ultrasonic cleaner, run 24 hours in Berry vibratory polisher and hand polished with mothers.
DMD driver board, Power and aux power boards were bullet proofed with rebuild kits from GPE
New GI header pins added to Interconnect board for PF and Back cabinet insert board. crimped Molex connectors added to replace IDC connectors from GPE.
New (home run) GI transformer harness made and installed from wire from BAA (factory wire color and gauge)
Correct fuses added to Line filter box and correct size varistor (Mov) installed
New Line cord 10
New Cabinet flipper switches 18
New flipper buttons 5
Lock down bar bracket disassembled, cleaned, sanded with Scotch brite and spray cleared
Lock down bar re-worked, buffed, and polished to mirror finish
All cabinet hardware removed, cleaned and painted with Rustoleum Painters Touch 2X Black Gloss paint
Coin door disassembled, cleaned and repainted
New ball shooter rod
New shopout decals made and applied to lower and upper cabinet, with correct serial numbers for game, warning decals, fuse decal diagrams, backbox CPU diagnostic decals, and assembly decals.
Underside of cabinet sanded
Inside bottom of cabinet sanded to look original from factory (no more nicotine yellow and dirt)
inside main cabinet sides and back painted, new warning labels applied.
Back box cabinet repainted (warning screen masked to maintain integrity), upper cabinet rear sealed with 3 coats of Golden Brand artist water-based Polymer Gloss Varnish to achieve a uniform sheen across cabinet.
Lower cabinet rear repainted and new Williams Decals (serial number decals) added.
Back box ground plain panel, removed, cleaned and polished
All boards cleaned with scrubbing bubbles
NVRAM (battery eliminator ) added from Pinitech 25
New back cabinet skid glides
All screens cleaned and polished
New upper and lower cabinet ground braid installed
Lower and upper cabinet paint sanded to bare wood, cabinet repaired, corners air-pinned, and cabinet corners repaired with dolphin glaze automotive body filler. Cabinet prepared with 3 coats of Varathane gloss oil-based floor finish, cured for 1 week and sanded before installation of cabinet decals. lower and upper cabinet decals installed dry per McCune's method.
Insert panel cleaned, repainted with satin white rustoleum 2x painters touch and then clear sealed
Premium II Non-ghosting color matched LEDs (cointaker for PF inserts) and soft white frosted comets in GI. Insert panel, frosted LEDs. 80
New premium balls from PBL 6
Cabinet side rails scotch brite polished, buffed and waxed.

I am sure there is some stuff I left off the list. I did not include shipping or the cost of parts, connectors, wire, nylon wire ties, and board rebuild kits that I already had on hand. This totals about $2,500 dollars not including the $1,600 base cost of the game and of course no labor. I have no idea of the hours I put in on this game but it took me about 10 months plus one heart attack( seriously) working off and on to get it done. So the numbers Mr. Kelly is stating of $6,000 to $7,000 sound very reasonable to me for dirt cheap labor. The game turned out gorgeous, and plays beautifully. I may upgrade the sound system to add a subwoofer since it has the stock speaker in it now. Anyone that has taken a game like this and done a complete "clean" restore, not just a PF swap can probably attest to the amount of time and costs it takes to do it right. Would I do it again? definitely, but I will skip the heart attack this time! I have a nice BoP that I have a new PF from Peter in Germany that will be a perfect candidate for the same treatment. I have begun to assembly my parts box and probably will start the project this winter after the holidays. Some pictures of my Whirlwind.

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#26 3 years ago

That's a beautifully done game, Chet!!

#28 3 years ago

That is a nice game, However, It didn't build itself, I notice the cost of your tools and equipment are not included, To write off a 30+k workbench (that's what mine cost) on such a comprehensive parts/cost list seems a bit odd... So that's considered part of the labor then, making up the difference?

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from clone97:

That is a nice game, However, It didn't build itself, I notice the cost of your tools and equipment are not included, To write off a 30+k workbench (that's what mine cost) on such a comprehensive parts/cost list seems a bit odd... So that's considered part of the labor then, making up the difference?

Tools are a huge cost, especially if you are not regularly restoring games. And they are often quite specific tools that the average person does not already own, and will probably not use for anything other than pinball restoration.

Also, if you're comparing a professional restoration to doing it yourself, you need to consider the time advantage a professional has over you. If it takes a professional 1 hour to complete a task, it will most likely take you 2-3 hours. And if you're only doing it in your free time you need to consider the time to set up and clean up for every session.

So if a professional is charging $X per hour for a restore, I would divide by 2 or 3 to get a real picture of the labour cost.

Obviously if you love doing it yourself, the extra time it takes you is outweighed by the enjoyment.

#30 3 years ago

Chet is one talented Pinsider. Fantastic looking game.

#31 3 years ago

My small workshop is starting to look like a pinball parts storage facility. . I have accumulated a lot of crap in the last few years for sure. Things like the rivet press is the $30 harbor freight arbor and the DIY kit from PinRestore. I retired from the Army a few years back so my time is cheap. I would starve to death if I had to do game restoration for income. I definitely leave that to the pros. I enjoy working on games as much as playing them so it all fun and keeps me active.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Seems like one of those "if you have to ask" sort of things. It would be cheaper selling yours and buying one in better condition. Restoring is for when cost is not an issue and you want the nicest one around.

That certainly is an option. There have been some great, helpful responses. Basically I was just curious. I don't think spending $6k to restore a pin is something I'd really be interested. At that cost I'd rather just have another pin. That said, though, I think that kind of money is worth every penny to someone who wants their favorite game to be perfect and I think the labor involved is probably underpaid even at that rate.

#33 3 years ago

send your machine down to me. I guarantee you will love the restoration once it returns to you!

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

That certainly is an option. There have been some great, helpful responses. Basically I was just curious. I don't think spending $6k to restore a pin is something I'd really be interested. At that cost I'd rather just have another pin. That said, though, I think that kind of money is worth every penny to someone who wants their favorite game to be perfect and I think the labor involved is probably underpaid even at that rate.

You are correct I love my WW enough to spend my money with Chris at HEP and it's just incredible. It's better to me than most new Sterns and I am not a basher as I own most new Sterns too but Whirlwind was fun in 1991 and still today.

#35 3 years ago

Looks great but unless it's just the image doing strange things you should straighten out the launching rod housing.

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballPimp:

send your machine down to me. I guarantee you will love the restoration once it returns to you!

I have seen Jeff's work. If you want a beautiful SS Bally let him restore it!!!

#37 3 years ago

Too much. Find a nice example for a fair price and play and enjoy it. They are out there. Be patient and be willing to pay. You'll still have the extra money for another game

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

Too much. Find a nice example for a fair price and play and enjoy it. They are out there. Be patient and be willing to pay. You'll still have the extra money for another game

And how many of your machines are professionally restored? (Prepare to use both hands when counting...)

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

Too much. Find a nice example for a fair price and play and enjoy it. They are out there. Be patient and be willing to pay. You'll still have the extra money for another game

I would say a good 95% of everyone would take your advice. The other 5% happen to have the means to make their games look and play as nice as possible. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a number of guys I've done numerous restorations for. I also have guys I've only done one for. That one just happens to be an all time favorite of theirs and that's the one they want perfect.

If they're your games, you can do anything you want with them.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I have a number of guys I've done numerous restorations for. I also have guys I've only done one for. That one just happens to be an all time favorite of theirs and that's the one they want perfect.

This! Exactly why I had HEP do my IJ...because it's my grail pin and I wanted to make sure it was done perfectly. All other machines I'm happy to restore myself (which ain't much cheaper, as anyone who's done a full restoration knows!).

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

i wrecked my yugo yesterday, how much will bodywork cost?

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/adobe/n9492

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I would say a good 95% of everyone would take your advice. The other 5% happen to have the means to make their games look and play as nice as possible. Nothing wrong with that.
I have a number of guys I've done numerous restorations for. I also have guys I've only done one for. That one just happens to be an all time favorite of theirs and that's the one they want perfect.
If they're your games, you can do anything you want with them.

Bryan. I know your work is awesome and I wish I had one of my restores done by you but being someone that has the means and has done too many professional restores as Boob mentioned, I just don't feel it was worth it. I should've found very nice examples that cost more but needed little besides maybe a cleared playfield by Ron K. Patience is everything. What I have learned is that excellent originals are out there.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

Bryan. I know your work is awesome and I wish I had one of my restores done by you but being someone that has the means and has done too many professional restores as Boob mentioned, I just don't feel it was worth it. I should've found very nice examples that cost more but needed little besides maybe a cleared playfield by Ron K. Patience is everything. What I have learned is that excellent originals are out there.

Completely understood. If I wasn't able to do my own games, I'd probably have the same attitude as you.

#44 3 years ago

My re-import WW was pretty much worn down when I purchased it. It was a great candidate for restoration, so I felt like it would be worth my time to do it right. Instead of another beat WW, it is now a fully restored one that I am sure will outlive me and hopefully sustain the inventory of this game for a long time for others to enjoy. Sustaining these Old Williams games means alot to me because they are not making anymore of them and the supply of nice condition ones is getting smaller. Hopefully, there will still be folks willing to put the time and effort to do restoration work, which I fully appreciate is not everyone's inclination or cup of tea.

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