(Topic ID: 129895)

Corvette - problem with engine entry/exit gates

By jimy_speedt

8 years ago


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  • 51 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by CrazyLevi
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#18 8 years ago
Quoted from DennisAZ:

The only active gate is gate 3 at the back of the engine. You have to trigger ball lock ("Lite Kickback" under the dragstrip) in which case gate 3 closes and the ball is stuck in the engine. Gates 1 and 2 are both passive. When the ball is stuck in the engine and rev mode starts, the ball shakes back and forth. At the end of revving, if gate 2 is adjusted correctly, the ball should move back under the gate 2 flap and fall into locked position. Sometimes this may take several tries by the engine. After three balls are locked, they will be ejected one at a time for kick-back play.
If a weak shot happens to get past gate 1 but not gate 2 then it will fall into the locked position. If you are not in lock mode (the 3rd light to the LT-5 ramp "LT-5 LOCK" is not lit then the ball will be kicked out of the locked position. The only time the ball will stay in locked position is when the "LT-5 LOCK" light to the ramp is turned on. This could also happen with a weak shot that gets pass gate 2 but not gate 3.
When the "LT-5 LOCK" light is not on, gate 3 is open and the ball will normally pass through the engine in a loop.

Gate 2 is NOT a passive gate, Gate Two has a solenoid and can be closed... Same for Gate 3. (Which is springed in the opposite direction and is closed by default, it is opened when power is applied.) You can see the same assembly on the BACK side of the back of the playfield behind the yellow GI lights, the gate 3 assembly is behind the playfield and can be seen when the playfield is pulled forward.
IMG_9066.JPGIMG_9066.JPG

Schwaggs was correct in his description....

There are actually 3 gates on the LT5 ramp and engine.
Gate 1 - The passive gate (green in your picture)
Gate 2 - The active "rev" gate (red in your picture)
Gate 3 - The active "exit" gate (not pictured)

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm messing around with this now. My lower rev gate (active gate at bottom of engine) doesn't close. No sounds in solenoid test.
I guess the solenoid is under the ramp? Don't see anything under the playfield. Looks like a bitch to get to.
There are also TWO springs attached to this thing, one fat one and one skinny one. Weird. Wondering if it's an operator "mod." Will take pics next time I'm in the shop.
If anybody can take some clear side pics of the lower gate/springs I'd appreciate it. Shop out pics would be even better.

Look on Page 2-22 in the manual. The A-17796 ball gate actuator assembly is what is used for both gate 2 and gate 3. It is shown UPSIDE DOWN in the manual... It is really a simple mechanism. When power is applied to the coil the bottom plate pulls in, which brings the bottom plate UP thus releasing tension on the spring hooked to the gate (part 9 in diagram) and allowing the gate to fall closed.

When power is removed spring 5 pulls the bottom plate back down which pulls down on spring 9 which opens the gate. When no power is applied, the gate is open since spring 5 is pulling the bottom plate down, and spring 9 is attached to the bottom plate and to the gate.

First thing to look for is if the connector for the solenoid is connected and that there is power there. You can also check to see if the transistor (Solenoid 2 (Q80) for Gate 2, Solenoid 5 (Q64) for Gate 3) is functioning by going into test and/or grounding their tabs. There is no clunk from these solenoids, only a little click, you have to be listening really hard to hear them activate, and then you'll only hear it if the bottom gate spring (spring 5 on the diagram) is moving the bottom plate back down.

P.S. if anyone needs the second (front) gate assembly A-19110, I have a couple of spare ones I ended up with when I was looking for one for mine.Let me know if interested.

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from DennisAZ:

Here is a picture of mine:
(I did add a strip of stainless steel between the right side of gates 1 & 2 because there was a crack in the plastic ramp)
Gates 1 & 2.jpg

The stainless is blocking the path to the solenoid and where the spring would connect to the ramp gate.
IMG_9058.JPGIMG_9058.JPG

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from DennisAZ:

Interesting.....
I do have an early production machine (Delco logos on the back glass vette bumper, no centering adjustment pot on the engine).
I tried the solenoid tests. Nothing happens with test #2, test #5 activates the rear gate.
I have removed the gate #2 by removing just the 2 screws. Nothing is attached to it such as a linkage to a solenoid. This is how I tweaked it to get the ball to drop in the locked position. Hmmmm!
I can see having gate #2 attached to a solenoid would be a big improvement.

Early production has nothing to do with it, I have a proto (complete with shifter, Delco on translight, printer board, and location testing sheets), The parts are all still there. For some reason the front gate got removed on a lot of the machines (it was fully missing on mine machine when I got it.) I think the ramps cracked and the solenoid put pressure on the ramps, and they got disconnected because of that.

I put a spacer down to the playfield to reinforce my gate assembly, so it couldn't crack the ramp again.

#23 8 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Thanks!
I am very familiar with this mech - it's the same thing that operates the gates at the back of Theatre of Magic.
The interesting / ridiculous thing is my lower gate on this Corvette has TWO springs going from the coil plate to the gate. The one stock one and one really thick atrocity. This is the "mod" I was refering to. I'll try disenganging that huge one and see if there's any movement or anything.

OK, I took the two springs to mean the small 10-120 spring that pulls the plate back open, and the long 10-194 spring between the plate and the gate. Not two springs in place of the plate to gate spring, that's probably too much tension, or not enough play to overcome, even when active. I know I had to stretch out my spring between the plat and gate so it would close correctly (it's a very tight window in which it works).

#25 8 years ago
Quoted from jimy_speedt:

I am now back and busy on my machine. coil test is succesful. First question I have:
If I understand properly, in normal mode (not ready for rev) , the ball should go thru gates 2 and 3 which should be up. Or come down the engine and be sent to the left hole.
I will start with behaviour of gate 3. When I launch a ball in normal mode, gate 3 goes up (opens) for a while. To be certain that no action releases the coil and then put this gate down, I remove the ball with the hand. After a few seconds gate 3 goes down an closes.
Then I place the ball on the right flipper (ball is blocked).
- If I release the right flipper (and let the ball to the outhole), gate 3 opens (!).
- Instead, if I kick the ball with the right flipper into the engine, the ball is blocked by gate 3 which is in down position. I would not expect that as we are still in normal mode.
What would be the cause of gate 3 strange behaviour ?
thank you

Gate three is normally closed, but will open when Gate one is tripped (actually the opto in front of gate 1) if the lock light is not lit; thus allowing a ball to pass through the engine when lock is not lit. It only opens for short periods of time to keep the solenoid from overheating.

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Right. I know there is a small spring on the coil plate itself, and then the thin one going up to the gate. This one clearly has TWO springs going up to the gate. Weird and no idea why this was done. Its possible this second spring - a big one - is putting so much tension on the gate that it can't move at all. I get no movement or audible click in test mode.
If the spring was disengaged completely from the gate, this gate would always be closed, or always be open?

Removing the spring would close the gate. Putting the spring on with the correct tension would hold the gate open until the solenoid pulls in, which would then close the gate. The small spring on the plate itself pulls down on the plate, which then pulls down on the thin spring going to the gate, which holds the gate open until the solenoid turns on and pulls the plate up, releasing tension on the thin spring allowing the gate to close.

1 year later
#45 7 years ago

Updating old thread to add a picture of a post added to support entry gate for use in helping someone repair a front gate...

IMG_20160202_220903 (resized).jpgIMG_20160202_220903 (resized).jpg

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