(Topic ID: 231951)

Gates won't go down, special stays lit on 73' Bally Monte Carlo


By Jahkub

4 months ago



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  • 11 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Jahkub
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There have been 12 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

2018-12-19 15.25.33 (resized).jpg
gate lower and top relays 2 (resized).jpg
gate lower and top relays (resized).jpg
Monte Carlo backbox inside (resized).jpg
Odds Evens backbox inside (resized).jpg
Monte Carlo cabinet inside (resized).jpg
Odds Evens cabinet inside (resized).jpg
specialgaterelay (resized).jpg
lowergaterelay (resized).jpg
closelower (resized).jpg
openlower (resized).jpg
Alt1 (resized).jpg

#1 4 months ago

Hey everyone, I recently picked up my first EM and shorty thereafter found out that the play field was swapped with Odds and Evens. The big problem I've found is some loose wires near the gates coils/relays. It seems very intentional as some of the labels were crossed out and rewritten. I've put together some photos of the suspected problems, including the loose wires in the area. I'm hoping someone on here with this machine can compare it to theirs to let me know what goes where.

I've written the existing wiring below with photos as a key.

There are also a number of loose wires in the area that are marked in the photos and two I forgot to label.
Those wires are:
1. Br/W
2. Bl/R
3. 2x O/G
4. 2x Bl/R
5. 2x Bl/R
6. O
7. R/B

(Bl=blue G=green B=black Br=brown Main color first, stripe color second)

Photo 1: Alternator
A. nil
B. nil
C. 2x Y

1. nil
2. 2x W/Bl (bridged to 3)
3. W/Bl (bridged to 2)
4. nil
5. nil
6. O/G
Alt1 (resized).jpg

Photo 2: Open Lower
1. Bl/R
2. 2x W/O
3. W (bridged to 5)
4. 3x W (one bridged to Close Lower #4)
5. 2x Y, W (bridged to #3)
6. Br
7. nil
8. nil
openlower (resized).jpg

Photo 3: Close Lower
1. B/O
2. 2x W/G
3. 2x Y (bridged to #5)
4. W (bridged to Open Lower #4)
5. 2x Y (bridged to 3)
6. G/B
closelower (resized).jpg

Photo 4: Lower Gate Relay
1. W/Y
2. 2x Y, Y/Bl (Y/Bl bridged to #6)
3. W/Br
4. 2x Br
5. Bl/R
6. Y/Bl (bridged to #2)
lowergaterelay (resized).jpg

Photo 5: Special Gate Relay
1. G/B
2. O/B, W/Br
3. B/O
4. 2x Y (bridged to #5)
5. 2x Y (bridged to #4)
6. W/Br
specialgaterelay (resized).jpg

Let me know if there is anything I can clarify, this is my first EM and I've yet to comprehend the schematics but I'm trying.

#2 4 months ago

I should also mention that the game works fine with the exceptions of the gates (both) not lowering and the special also remaining available to collect over and over as it stays lit and the gate open. The gates do reset at the end of ball though.

#3 4 months ago

I think I'm getting the hang of the schematics now although I'm a bit hesitant to make any changes without some outside input.

#4 4 months ago

Man - I wonder why someone would do that? That's crazy.

#5 4 months ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Man - I wonder why someone would do that? That's crazy.

I see now that the crossed out words are so it corresponds with the schematic labels, so that makes sense at least. That actually helped me when reading the schematics.

#6 4 months ago

We have to figure out what you've got there. You said its a Monte Carlo but with a Odds & Evens playfield. But you also clearly have an Alternator relay as shown in your pics, there is no Alternator relay in the Monte Carlo but there is one in Odds & Evens. You can check the 2 schematics to confirm this, just look in the relay list, plus there is no Alternator relay in my Monte Carlo (I checked).

So this seems to indicate that the whole bottom cabinet is an Odds & Evens. But you are identifying it as Monte Carlo, so I take it that the head is from a Monte Carlo? That is, it has the Monte Carlo backglass and 4 sets of score reels?

If that's the case, that is, if this is a Odds & Evens cabinet with a Monte Carlo head and someone has tried to force the 2-player Odds & Evens to become a 4-Player Monte Carlo, that is going to take some work to figure out. They are quite a bit different!

These pics are all from the IPDB, you can look and then tell us what you've got.

O-E cabinet

Odds Evens cabinet inside (resized).jpg

MC cabinet

Monte Carlo cabinet inside (resized).jpg

O-E backbox

Odds Evens backbox inside (resized).jpg

MC backbox

Monte Carlo backbox inside (resized).jpg

#7 4 months ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

We have to figure out what you've got there. You said its a Monte Carlo but with a Odds & Evens playfield. But you also clearly have an Alternator relay as shown in your pics, there is no Alternator relay in the Monte Carlo but there is one in Odds & Evens. You can check the 2 schematics to confirm this, just look in the relay list, plus there is no Alternator relay in my Monte Carlo (I checked).
So this seems to indicate that the whole bottom cabinet is an Odds & Evens. But you are identifying it as Monte Carlo, so I take it that the head is from a Monte Carlo? That is, it has the Monte Carlo backglass and 4 sets of score reels?
If that's the case, that is, if this is a Odds & Evens cabinet with a Monte Carlo head and someone has tried to force the 2-player Odds & Evens to become a 4-Player Monte Carlo, that is going to take some work to figure out. They are quite a bit different!
These pics are all from the IPDB, you can look and then tell us what you've got.
O-E cabinet

Ah, the mystery deepens.

All of the guts except the play field are Monte Carlo, I guess the swap just left all the Odds and Evens parts on the underside of the play field.

I'm curious now about the alternator, I assume it switches which pops are 10/100? I assume I could implement this feature into Monte Carlo's rules as the part is there? Or is the alternator just to change the match function?

#8 4 months ago
Quoted from Jahkub:

Ah, the mystery deepens.
All of the guts except the play field are Monte Carlo, I guess the swap just left all the Odds and Evens parts on the underside of the play field.
I'm curious now about the alternator, I assume it switches which pops are 10/100? I assume I could implement this feature into Monte Carlo's rules as the part is there?

The MC pops are switched back and forth by switches on the 12th score reel, which is formed so it is "on" for one score motor turn and "off" for the next one. The OE alternator looks like it switches depending on the position of the 00-90 unit disc. So the alternator replay should be redundant if you have the MC guts. (That's probably why it is basically disconnected)

#9 4 months ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

The MC pops are switched back and forth by switches on the 12th score reel, which is formed so it is "on" for one score motor turn and "off" for the next one. The OE alternator looks like it switches depending on the position of the 00-90 unit disc. So the alternator replay should be redundant if you have the MC guts. (That's probably why it is basically disconnected)

Now that I can look at the Odds and Evens schematic it's all making more sense, I guess I just need to pour over them side by side and figure it out. I was really hoping I could just copy someone else's wiring.

A HUGE thank you for your time though! Looking at the wrong schematic (which came with the game) was probably why I was having such a hard time understanding it.

#10 4 months ago

Here's some so-so pics of my MC gate relays, see if this helps.

gate lower and top relays (resized).jpg

gate lower and top relays 2 (resized).jpg

#11 4 months ago

The schematics weren't lining up with the number of available switches on the close gate relay so I took a closer look... Looks like I need to build out that switch stack or find a spare...

2018-12-19 15.25.33 (resized).jpg
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