(Topic ID: 291316)

Correct coilstop replacement for Williams A-7414

By marschner

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by marschner
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#1 3 years ago

Anyone knows which of these 2 coil stops is the correct one for replacing Williams A-7414.
It´s for the coils for the flippers.
Even after a complete rebuild I had loud buzzing so I just tried to order a coil stop from a different store (free play).
I received the tall one and the store claims it IS the correct replacement.
I tried to swap the short one with the tall one but the buzzing is the same.
When I take a coil stop from one of the other coils in the machine and compare it, it seems much more similar to the short one.
It would just be nice to get confirmed that the short one is actually the correct type.
coilstop1 (resized).jpgcoilstop1 (resized).jpg

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

Anyone knows which of these 2 coil stops is the correct one for replacing Williams A-7414.
It´s for the coils for the flippers.
Even after a complete rebuild I had loud buzzing so I just tried to order a coil stop from a different store (free play).
I received the tall one and the store claims it IS the correct replacement.
I tried to swap the short one with the tall one but the buzzing is the same.
When I take a coil stop from one of the other coils in the machine and compare it, it seems much more similar to the short one.
It would just be nice to get confirmed that the short one is actually the correct type.
[quoted image]

Wich Game???? What year???? Different stops for different designs...

#4 3 years ago

Try pbresource:
AC/DC coil stop all in one
WLL-A8143+ $4.50ea
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
Coil stop is designed to replaces
Williams A-7414 AC coil stops.
http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP03.html

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Wich Game???? What year???? Different stops for different designs...

75 Toledo

#6 3 years ago

Rebuild kit for 1975 Williams flipper
http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildk/kt-wflip-04m.jpg

#7 3 years ago

This is the rebuild kit I got from Marcos
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/WFLKIT6979
It is a Toledo 1975.
I guess A-7414 should be one specific item and not game dependent or am I wrong?

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

This is the rebuild kit I got from Marcos
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/WFLKIT6979
It is a Toledo 1975.
I guess A-7414 should be one specific item and not game dependent or am I wrong?

O.K. That is a picture using pbresource parts...
1) what does your coil stop look like? ....
-- A-7414 OEM from Williams does not exist anymore...
2) pbresource redesigned an A-7414 like coil stop for AC voltage designed pinballs.
3) marcos specialties A-7414 coil stop references A-8143 coil stop...
4) A-8143 coil stop is a DC voltage coil stop, it is not a AC voltage coil stop.

#9 3 years ago

vec-tor
1) Do you mean the original Williams? The one I received from Marcos is the left one on the photo. (On the photo of the rebuild kit it looks black and more like the one from pbresource.
2) The one from pbresource also refers to A8143
3-4) I just ordered the rebuild kit for the specific timeframe. I would expect the coilstops to fit AC coils.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

1) Do you mean the original Williams?

1) OEM = Original Equipment Manufacture
2) "The one from pbresource also refers to A8143"
2) Answer: Yes! notice the "+" symbol after the part number from pbresource
--- the part they make is a hybrid part. Like I noted above it is a AC/DC coil stop.
3-4) "I would expect the coilstops to fit AC coils."
Answer: Yes, the part Marcos sells does fit the original bracket.
-------- But, Marco is more into solid state games rather than the old
-------- electro-mechanical games.
Note: Marco is also making their own parts to replace NLA parts...
------ It does not mean they are making the part correctly for the style of game one has.

coilstop (resized).pngcoilstop (resized).png

#11 3 years ago

vec-tor
I actually thought that the bras part of the stop made it more suitable for AC.

Basically you think the ones from Marcos are for DC and I should buy some from PBR?

What about the lenght of the stop. You know what the correct lenght should be? I can´t find it anywhere in the parts manuals.
All they say is A-7414.
What is the lenght of the one from PBR?

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

vec-tor
I actually thought that the bras part of the stop made it more suitable for AC.

Answer: AC coil stops need a copper core to breakup the AC frequency, AKA Hertz, current cycle.
------- The brass collar is used to demagnetize to two pieces of metal....
------- [a. the plug][b.the mounting bracket]
------- The coil stop has to collapse the magnetic field that surrounds the coil when deactivated.
Note: you will find stories in Pinside of coil stops being magnetized from time to time.
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#13 3 years ago

vec-tor
Thanks for clearing things up
So you think there is no copper core in the stops from Marcos. Do the ones from PBR have a copper core?
On the last picture it seems there is some space between the bracket and the brass ring. Should the stop not be very tight to the bracket without any space?

#14 3 years ago

Here you can see the copper core.
Also, the brass collar.
IMG_0005[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0005[1] (resized).JPG

#15 3 years ago

vec-tor
This is the answer I got from Marcos today

"These new coil stops are made with a "shading ring" (should be at the base of the core) which helps reduce the possibility for residual magnetism, which is why the copper stops were used, originally "

So I gues no copper :-/

#16 3 years ago

A copper slug or shading ring also helps prevent buzzing in AC solenoids and relay coils.

Because the AC voltage switches from positive to negative (or crosses zero) twice per cycle, the current through the solenoid or coil goes to zero twice per cycle as the current changes direction. When the current is zero or close to zero there is not enough magnetic field in the coil to overcome the spring tension so the spring starts to pull the plunger or armature back towards its rest position. Once the current has recovered and the magnetic field strengthens the plunger or armature is pulled back towards the coil. The effect is a slapping or buzzing at twice the frequency of the AC voltage (e.g. 120 times per second in the US or 100 times per second elsewhere).

A shading ring or copper slug is designed to eliminate the buzzing. To understand how first consider a simple transformer with two windings which are just coils of wire. An AC voltage applied to the first winding will induce another AC voltage in the second winding. This happens because the applied AC voltage drives an AC current through the first winding which generates an alternating magnetic field. The magnetic field couples to the 2nd winding and induces an AC current and voltage in the 2nd winding.

The important bit about the induced voltage in this case though is that it lags or trails the input voltage in time. In other words the sine waves of the input and induced voltages don't overlap directly. The induced voltage sine wave is shifted to the right so that it is always just a little behind the input voltage. The same is true of the input and induced AC current.

That nugget is how a shading ring prevents buzzing. The main coil gets the input AC voltage and does all the heavy lifting of the solenoid or relay. But it also induces a current in the shading ring just like a transformer does. When the input AC voltage and current drop to zero there is still a small induced current in the shading ring because it is always delayed a little. That delayed induced current provides just enough magnetic field to keep the spring from pulling the plunger or armature away. By the time the induced current has dropped to near zero the main input voltage and current have recovered. So the shading ring just covers the small gaps while the main coil is effectively off.

Both AC solenoids and AC relays coils have a copper shading ring. In solenoids the shading ring is in the coil stop. In relay coils the shading ring is usually mounted to the end of the coil that attracts the relay armature.

And if you're still reading, most AC motors used in EM arcade games also have shading rings wrapped around the frame right next to the rotor. The purpose of those shading rings is to make sure that the motor always starts running in the same direction. Without the shading ring the motor could start in either direction based on whether the AC voltage was rising or falling when it was first applied to the motor.

/Mark

#17 3 years ago

MarkG
Thanks for the very interesting reading. I would have read even more
So I guess this copper is pretty importing for minimizing the loud buzzing. I am just afraid that the ones I got are without and onæy consist of plain metal.

#18 3 years ago

So basically for AC coils it "just" needs to be a coilstop with a cupper core?

#19 3 years ago

I suspect any coil stop that fits will work. It's just that those without the copper slug will likely buzz. It would be interesting to try them both to compare.

Longer coil stops will also limit the plunger stroke somewhat but I don't know how noticeable that would be.

#20 3 years ago

MarkG
I have tried the one without copper now and the buzzing is very loud.
I will order some with copper and try it out and get back here.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

I have tried the one without copper now and the buzzing is very loud.

Put a small piece of black electricians tape on top of the coil stop where the plunger hits it. That should help.

LTG : )

#22 3 years ago

LTG
I tried that but it was very quickly damaged by the plunger

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from marschner:

I tried that but it was very quickly damaged by the plunger

Lightly file the end of the plunger smooth. ( unless it is )

LTG : )

#24 3 years ago

LTG
It already has been smoothened a bit at the end.

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