I see many kits now to help improve flipper coil cooling, which can help with flipper-fade when the coils get too hot etc.

Makes sense to me, especially for the single wind PWM pulsed coils.

Looking at the photos in the solutions, I wanted to spitball some ideas without actually hijacking any products etc.

Curious why the paper coil wrapper always seems to be left on? why not remove this? that would open up all kinds of surface areas, and take away that layer of insulation.

Primarily tho, maybe this thread could house some general ideas or methods that might be effective.

Hmm, I was more referencing the heat pipe type copper methods used with older PC heatsinks. These are solid copper, but quite thick, so yes would pull the majority of the heat, and then usually spread out to fins etc.

I suppose you are correct on further consideration.. it is a net loss endeavor in the sense that by removing windings, we effectively reduce efficacy, for negligible cooling.

Still think there must be some way to improve passive cooling.. my concern is just any damage to the fragile insulation of the copper winding wire. anything that we could somehow apply to the coil with some fins to make better use of the fan for cooling.

Peltier coil stops? lol

Yeah.. I was thinking about something like that.. even a small pad such that maybe a small chip heatsink could be zip-tied or otherwise held to the coil.. at least something that the fan could be more effective on... contact would need to be quite good, otherwise it's just another layer of insulation.. still.. might be fun to at least try to test.

You mean with regard to using single wind vs dual windings for EOS?

Neat, I have seen some kind of similar material with PC video adaptors to help with chip cooling. Presume it is the same sort of thing. didn't know it could be put on backwards.. that could explain some things.. lol

I don't know if it is that simple.

This flipper driving mech concept has been in use since Data East pins. The general idea in the single wind has some merit, as controlling by PWM allows us to do some interesting things as well.. along with the fact that it's hard to say if it is as simple as cost savings.. I mean, those modern stern flippers most would agree feel very good for the first 30 minutes or so.. and it is really some specific titles where various usage seems to lead to some temperature issues... The coils themselves pack a lot of copper.. I feel like they are comparable if not larger than B+W?

Of course, I love the feel of my B+W as well.. I'm not sure how exactly they match up to modern Stern for power and responsiveness.. I feel like if the setting were maxed out on the Stern, it would have an edge?

I think it is mostly the modern titles, coupled with the power and method of driving the flippers. It is proven that over longer sessions the temperature of the coils gets to a point where the flippers are noticeably weaker. This excessive heat causes the coils to be less powerful. I actually wonder if it really has much to do with EOS tho, and perhaps just more to do with constant flipping.. it's a phenom that is more noticeable with certain titles.. and certainly multiball stacks can keep some players flipping constantly for some time.

In my case, I noticed it a bit on my Sword of rage LE, I was able to mitigate it almost entirely by simply reducing the flipper power. By default Stern maxes out flipper power, and a lot of people like to slam the pitch on the machines.. so maybe that is a factor as well.

I also notice some loss of power on my Tales from the Crypt after long play sessions.. so it's not necessarily just moderns.. but a common denominator is single wind coils for sure... maybe they are just juiced a bit too high.

That's pretty cool.. [npi]. but yeah, would be interesting to see the test results of that coupled with the poly pad lining the inside to protect the coil wire, and transfer as much heat as possible. This is probably the most marketable idea if it can be proven and done to make an affordable kit.. If the thermal transfer of the poly pad is good enough with the coil wire, it's maybe good enough even just using passively (without a fan).

Yeah, would be great to see a test and proper comparison. I never notice fade on my WPC games.. but then, even on a Multiball centric game like demolition man, the multiballs are somewhat short.. some of the modern games just seem to have multiball after multiball, along with ball saves.. I feel like the constant high power flipping is what must drive up the temps the most.

Sounds like we'd need a quantum leap

So specifically this product?
https://www.pinballlife.com/lotr-special-flipper-coil-090-5020-2ot.html
(090-5020-2OT)

I did not verify, but from another post, the resistance difference:
090-5020-30 is a 23-900 3.8 ohm coil
090-5020-20T is a 22-900 3.4 ohm coil

So if you were able to turn down the power by 10% and get a similar feel, but reduced fade.. that's pretty good news!

I installed some fans on my sleeves for this. It's a little awkward, but it keeps my core temp down.

Interesting. I've never experienced my demo man get that bad.. But certainly it is a title where it can be very frustrating with a weakened left flipper trying to make the claw ramp... I don't doubt it.. Esp if it is getting played heavily.. Pf gets a bit dirty, you really need those flipper coils to be 100%.

That's what I was thinking with the modern sterns.. It seems to be a solution to turn down the flipper power quite a bit.. Since doing this on my sword of rage, I don't encounter the fade anymore.. However it does mean that you really notice any slowdown due to pf dirt.. And it forces you to make cleaner shots, perhaps raising the difficulty in that way.. Which is not a bad thing.

Still for competition obviously it's important to have a threshold and try to mitigate fade as much as possible.

Yeah we wait a minute after someone's tilts the machine.. Lol.. It does seem to take a while for the coils to come back to normal temps tho.

Hmm thoughts on ducting air from the bottom cab vents to the coil coolers? That way perhaps just one 12cm fan pulls fresh air in and blows at the flipper coils.

Need to test inside cab temp I guess.

Good stuff!

So, cab temperatures are the big thing you noted? I like the idea of pulling from the back underside vents when available.. perhaps ducted to pull the cool air to the front.

Thanks for the info about the 540.. that's great.. looks like a great fit.. I'm still tempted to pull the paper wrapper off for the added cooling.. even just having the fan to blow on the last layer of wrap has to have a lot more surface area to help with the cooling?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002791410281.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.1eff17734P5lV4&algo_pvid=6af21614-70f5-4f39-aac4-4ae88e71f57d&algo_exp_id=6af21614-70f5-4f39-aac4-4ae88e71f57d-10&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000022205659616%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B3.22%3B-1%3B2.5%40salePrice%3BCAD%3Bsearch-mainSearch

Seem to be pretty cheap if you can wait a bit on the shipping... Although, I find that a lot of these sellers have distribution in North America.

Hopefully it makes them up their game a bit... so much in the 3D printing community, and in the pinball community is given for free, and the communities are that much stronger because of it.. it can be frustrating to see people try to profit from trivial mods... and quite frankly, give people the option to DIY or order a kit, and you'll probably get the same if not more orders for providing the convenience of the kit.

Anyway, I've orders some sensors and some of those 540 heatsinks and fan types.. el cheapos from China so in a month or two, unless someone beats me to it, I'll have some updates for the thread