(Topic ID: 98373)

Converting EMs to SSs (and creating replica machines)


By mfresh

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 309 posts
  • 39 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by swampfire
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 309 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
    #251 5 years ago

    pie face box.jpg

    #252 5 years ago

    Speaking of models... A band I sing and play guitar for, The Test, will be playing at Resintopia III - Plastic Model Kit and Statue Expo this year on September 13th in Fairfield, NJ... http://www.resintopia.com/program.html

    #253 5 years ago
    Quoted from EM-PINMAN:

    Yea Darcy, By my calculation the Twilight Zone conversion EM project will need at least 24 Stepper units, a dozen Relay Banks, a half dozen motors, and need a Atari Hercules Cabinet to fit it all.
    No problem.
    Ken

    And lotsa $$$$$ .

    Remember they made Bingos so you know they put a lot parts in them.

    #254 5 years ago

    ad029.jpg

    #255 5 years ago

    Hey o-din you got a copy cat.... err copy dog IWANTANSI from ca has a very similar icon?

    od.JPG

    #256 5 years ago

    I cannot believe how stupid that PIE FACE game is. Lots of things to see in that photo if you stare long enough... the decline of evolution... western civilization... foam not included. Hoo boy. Them golden days before Nintendo.

    But if you must...

    R&S were right...

    #257 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pin-it:

    Hey o-din you got a copy cat.... err copy dog IWANTANSI from ca has a very similar icon?

    od.JPG 3 KB

    Yeah, what's up with that?

    #258 5 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I cannot believe how stupid that PIE FACE game is. Lots of things to see in that photo

    Im going to find this game and we can all play at TPF next year,

    Also i will figure out how to make it a drinking game!

    --Jeff

    #260 5 years ago

    tracer.jpg

    #261 5 years ago

    I know it was several pages ago, but I'm one of the guys mentioned who's converting a 1974 Gottlieb Big Shot to SS control using a P-ROC. (Don't worry though, we're trying to make unnoticeable to the casual player, including the mechanical score reels, chimes, classic stepping bonus count down, etc.) We'll have this thing in the P-ROC booth and are doing a talk at the Chicago Expo this year if you want to see it.

    You can follow the progress on our blog, here's the link to just the Big Shot-related posts.

    We're also the guys behind the open source Mission Pinball Framework (also discussed on Pinside) which we hope to make easy enough for even non-programmers to use to build games. There are a lot of EMs out there which are super cheap with dead guts, so we're hoping this can resurrect some of them. Most EM games are simple enough that they can be "programmed" completely with our text-based config files. Yeah, you'll need a P-ROC or a FAST controller, but the host computer requirement can be handled with a $39 Raspberry Pi that you update via Dropbox. Plus you can do all sorts of modern things if you want, like ball save, light shows, and beatbox style music using the chimes, knocker, and pop bumpers.

    BTW I love EM games which is why our modernization is not involving sound modules or digital score displays. (Those things always seemed so out of place to me.) My first pin was a 1968 Williams Lady Luck (which I still have). For Big Shot we gently removed the EM guts intact which we hope will be useful to someone needing the parts to bring another machine back from the dead. (Well, except for the reels and chimes which we're still using.

    And yeah, to the person who said we wouldn't be able to wire this in a weekend, they were right. Took about 100 hours. And no, we didn't destroy the playfield by sanding. 1500 grit using alcohol to wet sand plus carnauba wax and that thing is looking almost brand new!

    Now, onto more important things... This was my first computer in the 80s. I didn't have the cassette interface module so I would write down all my programs on note paper and leave the computer powered on all the time, and if I accidentally lost power I would re-type them all from scratch. I still have that thing actually.. wonder if I can write a USB interface to hook it into the P-ROC?
    The Jello-O man sells computers!

    #262 5 years ago

    PARKS_SPACE_SHIP_WATER_ROCKETS_BOX_OBVERSE.JPG

    #263 5 years ago

    Thanks for the update Brian and wow the TI99/4A was also my first. Don't forget to post your latest progress on the pinballcontrollers forum!

    #264 5 years ago
    Quoted from BrianMadden:

    BTW I love EM games which is why our modernization is not involving sound modules or digital score displays.

    So.... charcoal or gas?

    #265 5 years ago

    I had those water rockets but a different brand..

    #266 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pin-it:

    Hey o-din you got a copy cat.... err copy dog

    Now his changed too.

    #267 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    I always wanted one of these for scientific study:

    X-ray ↑ specs.
    Wonder if these work? http://www.spy.th.com/glassescat.html

    They do! NSFW http://www.spy.th.com/through.html

    #268 5 years ago

    The TI-99/4A was my first back in '82. No disk drives(That was 1986). Yes, I used the cassette to load & save programs.

    #269 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    So.... charcoal or gas?

    I'm charcoal but I use the electric starter thing you mentioned on the first page. So just like pinball, I like the classics with a little help from modern technology.

    Actually now that I think about it I'm like that for lots of stuff. Apartment is 1880s Victorian but of course with whole home audio, hidden speakers, 2.3kw solar, LED lighting, and Global Cache network adapters tying all the automation together. My deck is tiled with classic Victorian ceramic tiles but with my name in ASCII encoded binary in the border.) My piano is made of real ebony with wood keys and looks like a normal piano, but it's digital. (Old building + city living + piano = headphones.) My bike is a 1974 Honda but with modern carbs and batteries, my toaster is a 1950s Toastmaster but plugged into a smart outlet, lamps are all vintage but with Philips Hue bulbs. Oh, and of course I'm into that whole pinball thing...

    So really this EM conversion was in the stars for me...

    #270 5 years ago

    I'm a big P-ROC guy, and I'm also a fan of EMs (I am a strong believer that if you have 10 or more machines in your collection at least one should be an EM). The only reason I can see for doing an EM to SS conversion is strictly for the intellectual challenge of it. It is hard to see where you could do enough to the rules to justify throwing a thousand dollars worth of hardware into it. But, hey, if it rocks your boat.

    In reality, there have plenty of EM games that were made SS, since most of the early SS games in the late 70s were pretty much games that could have been EMs and any time I play one of those I think, this should have been an EM. I understand that was part of the evolution of pinball, but playing one of those games with the electronic sounds and rule set that is basically an EM, just seems off of me.

    Loved seeing all the old soda bottles, when I got a coke machine for my game room, it had to be one designed for bottles. Soda/Pop tastes best in glass.

    And as far as all of these toys that were posted, it was a great trip down memory lane. I recently told a buddy of mine that I was going to do some vacuum forming for some parts for my latest custom game, and the next day he brought me this . . .

    IMG_0765.JPG

    I keep thinking I should try it out just for kicks.

    #271 5 years ago

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    #272 5 years ago

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    #273 5 years ago

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    #275 5 years ago

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    #276 5 years ago

    Reminded me of Wacky Packages. We just threw the gum away.....

    http://www.lostwackys.com/vending/wps-series-2.htm

    #277 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    d9366956-c577-46a9-926c-8d2e4ed9... 47 KB

    Moni.......

    #278 5 years ago

    Tonka.JPG

    #279 5 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Reminded me of Wacky Packages. We just threw the gum away.....

    I still have mine. Hundreds I think. Only a few of my Odd Rods survived.

    #281 5 years ago

    Bhut Jolokia

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    #282 5 years ago

    Tacos!
    DSCN2945.JPG

    #283 5 years ago
    Quoted from TaTa:

    Bill 074.jpg 287 KB

    Looks like the Jersey Jack people eat at a cheap Italian restaurant based on the table cloth........

    #284 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Tacos!
    Image (auto-loading disabled)

    DSCN2945.JPG 195 KB

    Tonight's menu just doesn't look as appetizing as that thick steak a couple of weeks ago.

    #286 5 years ago
    Quoted from CactusJack:

    Tonight's menu just doesn't look as appetizing as that thick steak a couple of weeks ago.

    Oh, but it was! Now it's time to put out the fire with one of my favorite beverages.

    #287 5 years ago

    Spirits.JPG Wash down the palate time.

    #288 5 years ago

    I can drink this like water. Wife says I have a problem. What does she know? When she can disassemble, clean and reassemble a Gottlieb Decagon Score unit, then she can tell me what to do.

    image.jpg

    #289 5 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    The only reason I can see for doing an EM to SS conversion is strictly for the intellectual challenge of it.

    I believe this is actually backward. The intellectual challenge would be converting an SS to EM. A person would need to figure out the relay logic circuits themselves instead of buying prefabricated boards which are just waiting preconfigured code. EM to SS sounds like the easier way, doesn't it?

    I have some electronic bench type programs and logic gate simulators. I tried to simulate one of my EM games on those programs by arranging inputs/outputs of various gates (and, or, nand, J-K etc) and the pointless project became so large that I abandoned it.

    #290 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    I believe this is actually backward. The intellectual challenge would be converting an SS to EM. A person would need to figure out the relay logic circuits themselves instead of buying prefabricated boards which are just waiting preconfigured code. EM to SS sounds like the easier way, doesn't it?
    I have some electronic bench type programs and logic gate simulators. I tried to simulate one of my EM games on those programs by arranging inputs/outputs of various gates (and, or, nand, J-K etc) and the pointless project became so large that I abandoned it.

    EM logic design was certainly an art by its end in pinball. The even more amazing accomplishment is what they did with Bally Bingos by its end.

    It is certainly not impossible to make a primative SS game into an EM since many of them in the early days were available in both forms. But trying to re-create one from scratch, or trying to incorporate anything more than sequence banks and step up features could not reasonably be done.

    There was a somewhat "interesting" one-off EM game up at the Seatle show this year. It had a couple of more contemporary features added to it. The owner opened up the game and it was filled with extra banks of relays and steppers (far more than even an OXO). I was impressed to see it was even done in cloth wiring. He said it took him 5 years to complete it. I am not sure if he started completely from scratch or at least used a functional game as a starting point (which would make sense). But it was certainly a mix of both Gottlieb, Bally, and Williams technologies inside.

    #291 5 years ago

    The pic I posted earlier is a conversion from SS to EM.

    Steve

    Quoted from SteveFury:

    I believe this is actually backward. The intellectual challenge would be converting an SS to EM. A person would need to figure out the relay logic circuits themselves instead of buying prefabricated boards which are just waiting preconfigured code. EM to SS sounds like the easier way, doesn't it?
    I have some electronic bench type programs and logic gate simulators. I tried to simulate one of my EM games on those programs by arranging inputs/outputs of various gates (and, or, nand, J-K etc) and the pointless project became so large that I abandoned it.

    #292 5 years ago

    What would a modern-day EM from scratch machine be like? Something something Gottleib. No P-ROC, Aurdino, RPi, or any processors. With today's manufacturing abilities & wisdom from previous EM machines, it would be interesting to see.

    No sound processors, so you will have to use the tech of a See & Say for soundbytes.

    #293 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    I believe this is actually backward. The intellectual challenge would be converting an SS to EM.

    My point was that would be the only reason to do it, however, I would agree that going from SS to EM would be a bigger intellectual challenge. Especially if you tried to do something with a more complex rule set that the earliest SS games.

    #294 5 years ago
    Quoted from s1500:

    What would a modern-day EM from scratch machine be like? Something something Gottleib. No P-ROC, Aurdino, RPi, or any processors. With today's manufacturing abilities & wisdom from previous EM machines, it would be interesting to see.
    No sound processors, so you will have to use the tech of a See & Say for soundbytes.

    For sound on a modern more complicated EM project, I can envision expanding the simple bell and chime into a more nickelodeon configuration. Percussion drums and numatic horns for variety. Oh, what a machine it would be. Imagine a shaker emitting steam/smoke while the ball is caught in a hole.

    #295 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    For sound on a modern more complicated EM project, I can envision expanding the simple bell and chime into a more nickelodeon configuration. Percussion drums and numatic horns for variety. Oh, what a machine it would be.

    Ha, that would be cool!

    #296 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    For sound on a modern more complicated EM project, I can envision expanding the simple bell and chime into a more nickelodeon configuration. Percussion drums and numatic horns for variety. Oh, what a machine it would be. Imagine a shaker emitting steam/smoke while the ball is caught in a hole.

    I have tentative plans to do this... but with the help of SS technology. Otherwise just too massive an undertaking to reinvent the wheel. Heck, the whole orchestra!

    #297 5 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    For sound on a modern more complicated EM project, I can envision expanding the simple bell and chime into a more nickelodeon configuration. Percussion drums and numatic horns for variety. Oh, what a machine it would be. Imagine a shaker emitting steam/smoke while the ball is caught in a hole.

    Steve, is that you in your profile pic, or a relative? I like the pic. I am looking more like it every day.

    #298 5 years ago

    WOW amazing, this thread is sort of "back on topic".

    #299 5 years ago
    Quoted from Chrisbee:

    WOW amazing, this thread is sort of "back on topic".

    Yes Chris, I agree that it is time to get things back on track with this thread and also at the same time mention my concern about a certain person who keeps trying to SPAM this thread. A no SPAM policy is now in effect.

    Ken

    dr-evil-spam.jpeg nospam.gif
    #300 5 years ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    I have tentative plans to do this... but with the help of SS technology. Otherwise just too massive an undertaking to reinvent the wheel. Heck, the whole orchestra!

    I support your project long as a restorable EM isn't destroyed in the process. This is what I mean: I restored an 1887 pump organ a couple years ago. It took about 300hrs labor to complete. Most people made bars and desks out of them rather than repair them. It would have been much more easy to just rip the soul from it and install a bank of switches and rig it to Casio keyboard circuits. Just because I could, and an easier route. But in the end I'd have a soul-less franken wood shell organ nobody else would want.

    Actually, you wouldn't need to reinvent the wheel by designing and building an EM pin from scratch. You could incorporate only the devices and things you like etc. I think I'd like to do such a project, if I had the time and the equipment/spare parts.

    My avatar picture? Shhhh

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