(Topic ID: 22785)

Converting any System 80 (6 digit) Gottlieb to 80A (7 digit)


By blownfuse

7 years ago



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  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ThierryTMR
  • Topic is favorited by 30 Pinsiders

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    20171213_225917 (1) (resized).jpg
    Counterforce.JPG
    Spoof_Cliffy_after.JPG
    1_s_unit_now_a_zero.JPG
    Pin_1_position.jpg
    Connector_removed.jpg
    A1J3-16_D13_D16_connector.JPG
    Wires_run_C.JPG
    A2J3-6_connector_B.JPG
    A2J3-6_connector_A.JPG
    7270776736_9a1bdf28e5.jpg
    Active_1_s_unit.JPG
    Socketed_U23_C.JPG
    Socketed_U23_A.JPG
    What_s_needed_A.JPG

    11
    #1 7 years ago

    For Scott (and others that wish to do this). Note: This is not something someone just learning solid state should attempt, think before you do surgery on a game, it may die. For the foolhardy, please continue.

    The nice part of this conversion is that you don't need a complete harness from a 7 digit game and it will work on any Gottlieb System 80 6 digit game without modifying the game ROM each time. Gottlieb used the exact same wire color assignments from 6 to 7 digit so you only have to pull 3 extra wires to the new displays. The part that takes the longest is crimping in the new connectors for the 7 digit displays.

    All parts can be bought here (except the wire, zip ties and displays):
    http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/

    Parts needed: (2) 24 pin sockets Product ID: IS-624-MP
    (1) U2/3 EPROM module with EPROM Product ID: 140-101 (sometimes out of stock)
    (4) 7 digit displays
    (87) Crimp contacts Product ID: 08-52-0072
    (4) 24 pin connector Product ID: 09-01-6241
    22 ga. wire
    4" wire ties

    First, remove both U2/3 from the CPU board and install two 24 pin sockets, then install GPE's U2/3 combo board in place and you'll need the 6 to 7 digit ROM (PM me about it). Along with converting 6 to 7 digit, it has free play available through the dip switch settings and also has quick boot (like 80A, no more 6 second wait at start up). Set both the jumpers on Ed's U2/3 board to the right (closest to the EPROM). The RAM will remember the new higher score with the new U2/3 just like before. You will have to remove the battery to clear all the audits for the new U2/3 to work since the RAM will want to remember what the old U2/3 told it, this will create a conflict.

    That's all needed for the solid state board work. Now the 1's digit is working as a 10's digit, we just don't have a dead zero to look at now.
    On the next post, the conversion will get a little harder. Any questions before I move on? I'll wait.

    What_s_needed_A.JPG Socketed_U23_A.JPG Socketed_U23_C.JPG Active_1_s_unit.JPG

    #2 7 years ago

    Thanks for the explanation and pics. I also have all the necessary tool to make the conversion (Ed's conversion board, roms and etc ...) but don't have time to do it right now. Can't wait to see the next step !

    #3 7 years ago

    Glad you like the project. All I had was an idea that others made work regarding the U2/3 EPROM. Special thanks go out to all that made this modification possible (the unsung heros). The new U2/3 Eprom is working great in my game, has for 2 years now.

    I'll try to get something up on the board today. Life has a way of switching directions (just like a pinball) but I'll get the info up here soon for those that would like to do this mod.

    Quoted from HPR:

    Thanks for the explanation and pics. I also have all the necessary tool to make the conversion (Ed's conversion board, roms and etc ...) but don't have time to do it right now. Can't wait to see the next step !

    #4 7 years ago

    I was just da guy with the burner but man that was some crazy times. Burnin' roms revision after revision, waiting on Steve's bug hunt reports and possible fixes. Crazy days. It's fascinating to watch people play Steve's BH at shows and they don't even realize it's got 7 digit displays. I would expect that from the uninitiated public but I'm talking fellow Gottlieb enthusiasts!

    #5 7 years ago

    Who looks at displays when Cliffy is being sucked into the vortex of the BH?
    Glad to see you got out, I thought you were a goner for sure.

    7270776736_9a1bdf28e5.jpg

    #6 7 years ago

    Well, back to it then. For this demonstration, I'm using a Counterforce but it'll be the same for all System 80's. The 7 digit displays have the same footprint as a 6 digit display and also use the same size display window. This is good because you can use the existing mounts to hang the 7 digit display boards from and you won't have any allignment issues with the backglass. There will be no clearance issues as well.

    Because the 7 digit display board has a 7432 on it, we'll need to get 5VDC to each board. To accomplish this, we need to go to the source Gottlieb did. On the power supply at A2J3 pin 6, there is nothing there on a 6 digit game. This is where they got the power in 7 digit games.

    I like to use original wire when doing this modification so it looks like it came from the factory. So I'm going to grab some 22 guage wire marked blue-slate-slate, this is the color designated for all 5VDC lines. Install a crimp contact to the end of the wire and slip it into the A2J3-6 position. Then route/daisie chain the wire to each of the four player displays following the display harness. I start at the display closest to the power supply and then jumper from one display to another till I get to the furthest away. Be sure to leave a minimum of 4" of wire sticking out of each player display near the old connector. You will want to use some of the zip ties to hold the wire in place as you go. You'll be removing them later when you retie the harness, some zip ties will be sacrificed to the pinball gods. A2J3-6_connector_A.JPG A2J3-6_connector_B.JPG Wires_run_C.JPG

    #7 7 years ago

    Next, we need to get our "1's" display back to showing a zero. We'll go to the A1J3 connector for this. First, pull the wire A1J3-13 (D13 circled in green) from the connector and remove the old crimp contact too. The wire color will be purple-yellow-yellow. Take some 22 guage wire (color match if possible) and install the end along with the wire you removed from the connector into another crimp contact. Then slide the crimp back into the A1J3 connector at position 13. Now run the wire to players 2 and 4 displays using the same routing technique as the 5VDc line and leaving a minimum of 4" extra wire out the front of the display. Zip tie to hold the wire in place.

    The next part, I'm going to cut and paste but make some small changes.

    Next, pull the wire A1J3-16 (D16 circled in red) from the connector and remove the old crimp contact too. The wire color will be purple-purple-purple. Take some 22 guage wire (color match if possible) and install the end along with the wire you removed from the connector into another crimp contact. Then slide the crimp back into the A1J3 connector at position 16. Now run the wire to players 1 and 3 displays using the same routing technique as the 5VDc line and leaving a minimum of 4" extra wire out the front of the display. Zip tie to hold the wire in place.

    That wasn't bad was it.

    Now, the fun part. Go back to the harness and add a zip tie next to each old zip tie and after the new one is in, cut away the old one. When you finish, the harness should look like it was made that way.

    A1J3-16_D13_D16_connector.JPG

    #8 7 years ago

    Remember the old phrase, "you'll hate me in the morning"? Well ... it's morning. Time to go to work. Remove the four old 6 digit display connectors from the harness, it's a P.I.T.A. but it has to be done (and I'm not there to do it for you ) Don't throw away the old connectors until you've removed those connector ID tags, you may want to add them to the new connectors later.

    Alrighty then, it's crimping time. A lot of the wires are looped from one display to the next. What you'll need to do on those is find the area where the old crimp was and cut the wire at that point, then install a new crimp contact (stuffing both wires into it). Yay, 80 crimps to do (I always find myself singing the ol' favorite "99 bottles of beer" song at this point except you start at "80 crimps in the pinball head". Also, you might have to shorten some of the new wires that were previously run so there's no mess at each connector.

    While you're busy with that, I'll get the display wiring color list together in the next post.

    Connector_removed.jpg

    #9 7 years ago

    To find display pin 1, look at the back of the 7 digit display (pic with "1" circled in red). Put the new 7 digit connector on the display and mark the pin 1 position on the connector.

    *IMPORTANT NOTE* Be sure the connector is facing the correct way or you'll wire the display backwards. On the connector, the crimp contact removal insert slot should be on the pad side of the display board.

    Once you're sure the connector is positioned correctly, wire the connectors as follows (pins 22-24 aren't used);

    PLAYER ONE DISPLAY WIRE COLORS

    Pin 1. black-yellow-yellow (60VDC)
    Pin 2. NOT USED
    Pin 3. brown-yellow-yellow (5VAC return)
    Pin 4. green (ground)
    Pin 5. purple-purple-purple (D16 added earlier)
    Pin 6. yellow-black-black (D1)
    Pin 7. yellow-brown-brown (D2)
    Pin 8. yellow-red-red (D3)
    Pin 9. yellow-orange-orange (D4)
    Pin 10. yellow-yellow-yellow (D5)
    Pin 11. yellow-green-green (D6)
    Pin 12. blue-slate-slate (5VDC added earlier)
    Pin 13. brown-red-red (5VAC)
    Pin 14. orange-purple-purple (segment h)
    Pin 15. orange-blue-blue (segment g)
    Pin 16. orange-green-green (segment f)
    Pin 17. orange-yellow-yellow (segment e)
    Pin 18. orange-orange-orange (segment d)
    Pin 19. orange-red-red (segment c)
    Pin 20. orange-brown-brown (segment b)
    Pin 21. orange-black-black (segment a)

    PLAYER TWO DISPLAY WIRE COLORS

    Pin 1. black-yellow-yellow (60VDC)
    Pin 2. NOT USED
    Pin 3. brown-yellow-yellow (5VAC return)
    Pin 4. green (ground)
    Pin 5. purple-yellow-yellow (D13 added earlier)
    Pin 6. yellow-blue-blue (D7)
    Pin 7. yellow-purple-purple (D8)
    Pin 8. purple-black-black (D9)
    Pin 9. purple-brown-brown (D10)
    Pin 10. purple-red-red (D11)
    Pin 11. purple-orange-orange (D12)
    Pin 12. blue-slate-slate (5VDC added earlier)
    Pin 13. brown-red-red (5VAC)
    Pin 14. orange-purple-purple (segment h)
    Pin 15. orange-blue-blue (segment g)
    Pin 16. orange-green-green (segment f)
    Pin 17. orange-yellow-yellow (segment e)
    Pin 18. orange-orange-orange (segment d)
    Pin 19. orange-red-red (segment c)
    Pin 20. orange-brown-brown (segment b)
    Pin 21. orange-black-black (segment a)

    PLAYER THREE DISPLAY WIRE COLORS

    Pin 1. black-yellow-yellow (60VDC)
    Pin 2. NOT USED
    Pin 3. brown-yellow-yellow (5VAC return)
    Pin 4. green (ground)
    Pin 5. purple-purple-purple (D16 added earlier)
    Pin 6. yellow-black-black (D1)
    Pin 7. yellow-brown-brown (D2)
    Pin 8. yellow-red-red (D3)
    Pin 9. yellow-orange-orange (D4)
    Pin 10. yellow-yellow-yellow (D5)
    Pin 11. yellow-green-green (D6)
    Pin 12. blue-slate-slate (5VDC added earlier)
    Pin 13. brown-red-red (5VAC)
    Pin 14. blue-purple-purple (segment h)
    Pin 15. blue-blue-blue (segment g)
    Pin 16. blue-green-green (segment f)
    Pin 17. blue-yellow-yellow (segment e)
    Pin 18. blue-orange-orange (segment d)
    Pin 19. blue-red-red (segment c)
    Pin 20. blue-brown-brown (segment b)
    Pin 21. blue-black-black (segment a)

    PLAYER FOUR DISPLAY WIRE COLORS

    Pin 1. black-yellow-yellow (60VDC)
    Pin 2. NOT USED
    Pin 3. brown-yellow-yellow (5VAC return)
    Pin 4. green (ground)
    Pin 5. purple-yellow-yellow (D13 added earlier)
    Pin 6. yellow-blue-blue (D7)
    Pin 7. yellow-purple-purple (D8)
    Pin 8. purple-black-black (D9)
    Pin 9. purple-brown-brown (D10)
    Pin 10. purple-red-red (D11)
    Pin 11. purple-orange-orange (D12)
    Pin 12. blue-slate-slate (5VDC added earlier)
    Pin 13. brown-red-red (5VAC)
    Pin 14. blue-purple-purple (segment h)
    Pin 15. blue-blue-blue (segment g)
    Pin 16. blue-green-green (segment f)
    Pin 17. blue-yellow-yellow (segment e)
    Pin 18. blue-orange-orange (segment d)
    Pin 19. blue-red-red (segment c)
    Pin 20. blue-brown-brown (segment b)
    Pin 21. blue-black-black (segment a)

    Well, if you made it this far, the conversion should be complete. Try it out, you should have the dead "1's" back as a zero. And the game should now remember the new higher scores. To put your game on "free play", you must have both dip switches on the CPU board set to "on". Have fun, I'm done. Any questions, post and I'll help as best I can.

    And don't forget to add those connector labels back to the new connectors, it adds more to the look. (yea, they're missing on mine ... but not for long)

    Pin_1_position.jpg 1_s_unit_now_a_zero.JPG

    #10 7 years ago

    You can barely see him Eric, you should have gotten a close up.

    Quoted from tracelifter:

    Who looks at displays when Cliffy is being sucked into the vortex of the BH?
    Glad to see you got out, I thought you were a goner for sure.

    #11 7 years ago

    Yeah, there was code flying around everywhere. I guess they don't look for 7 digit displays since it's unknown to them. Thanks for the help buddy.

    Quoted from Cliffy:

    I was just da guy with the burner but man that was some crazy times. Burnin' roms revision after revision, waiting on Steve's bug hunt reports and possible fixes. Crazy days. It's fascinating to watch people play Steve's BH at shows and they don't even realize it's got 7 digit displays. I would expect that from the uninitiated public but I'm talking fellow Gottlieb enthusiasts!

    #12 7 years ago

    This one looks better, Cliffy's also laminated with mylar. Bet ya didn't know that.

    Spoof_Cliffy_after.JPG

    #13 7 years ago

    Counterforce as 80A (7 digit)

    Counterforce.JPG

    Any questions, post them.

    3 weeks later
    #14 7 years ago

    Good Job !

    We have done similar on a SYS80A board for the Black Hole, so the game prom code have been adaptated to match with U2A/U3A.

    History and information is here :
    http://www.flipprojets.fr/

    4 years later
    #15 2 years ago

    I would like to perform this conversion but I'm having trouble finding the display connectors for the series 80A. I think these might be the ones http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/09-01-6241

    I would also like to know if someone could flash the rom for me ? I just registered and can't PM blownfuse about it the rom

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from Barkingnut:

    I just registered and can't PM blownfuse about it the rom

    It's with a sad heart to inform you that Steve Charland has passed away.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/steve-charland-rest-in-peace

    There are some other pinsiders that are very good with Gottlieb machines that you can reach out to or they may chime in here to provide the help you need.
    -Mike

    #17 2 years ago

    Sorry to hear about Steve as I'm new here. I will need to program the rom and was wondering if anyone can assist me.
    thanks in advance

    #18 2 years ago

    I found the rom so, I will order my parts and go from there

    3 months later
    #19 1 year ago

    So I put everything together on my timeline series 80 machine as per this forum thread but, the score board is still acting like a 6 digit instead of the 7 digit I'm thinking it must be the U2/u3 rom is incorrect. Any ideas I'm using the Timelin7.zip files
    I checked all the wiring and removed the battery. The free play doesn't work and the 6 sec delay is still there which makes me think it's the the U2/u3 rom

    20171213_225917 (1) (resized).jpg

    #20 1 year ago

    Hello Barkingnut,

    Some help from a Froggy ?
    Correct U2/U3 files :
    http://www.gametronik.com/site/fiche/pinmame/Time%2520Line/

    You'd like an easy way to change your backbox ?
    https://www.flipperfrance.com/threads/7-digits-kit-adaptation.12361/
    You will preserve the original wires and easily come back to original 6 displays version.
    You also will able to mix 7 and 6 digits displays on the same backbox.

    A modern CPU ?
    http://www.flippp.fr/pi80.php?lg=en

    Send pictures when you will succeed.

    Regards
    TMR

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