(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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14
#328 4 years ago

I'm not normally a very reactionary person, but I'm thiiis close to canceling my JP2 premium. Which is a bummer on multiple levels. Maiden is my favorite game ever, so I've been counting the days to KME's second effort. My kid is having a dinosaur-themed birthday party in late October, which the game should arrive in time for. And I have friends who work at Stern, who I don't enjoy calling out publicly. But this head-in-sand response from the company gives me little comfort or confidence in the product:

"No widespread issues here at Stern, can’t speak for other manufacturers though. If anyone does have any issues with their games though they should definitely be reaching out to their dealer or distributor." Source: https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/

I don't care what their definition of "widespread" is; I've seen enough that I don't want to gamble on NIB until this issue is acknowledged and/or corrected.

#345 4 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Put emotion ahead of logic. Emotionally driven decisions always work out better.

NSIS.gifNSIS.gif

#351 4 years ago

edit: nevermind

#372 4 years ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

I’ve seen so many JP2 pooling pics and know both local ones have it that now I’m wondering if there is any without. Are there confirmed good ones at this point?

I played a good one at someone's home last week. It had the factory installed washers under star posts. I couldn't find any pooling/bunching/blistering there, or around any post. Looked great.

13
#407 4 years ago

I wonder if they wish they could go back in time and stay in business with Churchill.

#508 4 years ago
Quoted from Lounge:

The more I see the pictures of these issues the more I’m thinking it’s a hardware issue.

Those posts have been used for years. Decades in the case of star posts, where it's the worst.

12
#512 4 years ago
Quoted from Lounge:

I’m talking about the bolts that hold the posts to the playfield. And what if the wood is softer? What if the flippers are more powerful? What if they weren’t tightened down properly?

Dude it's the clearcoat.

#518 4 years ago

Remember a couple years ago when Stern's clear was so hard & brittle that it was cracking in shooter lanes and flaking off the edge of outholes? This is the pendulum swung too far in the other direction. Time for some goldilocks clear.

#828 4 years ago

Detective Flynn is on the case!

#888 4 years ago

Levi should know better than to open the door for hackneyed middle-aged political jokes. I'm one Buttigieg pun away from my eyes rolling a complete 360°.

11
#1174 4 years ago

Now clearcoat is even separating from the plastics, ridiculous.
KME.jpgKME.jpg

#1229 4 years ago
Quoted from Slugmeister:

A couple more BKSORLE

Turn the lights on.

#1359 4 years ago

Still hanging onto my JP2 premium order, but I'm out in a heartbeat if the LEs aren't fixed.

11
#1370 4 years ago

It's only an issue when the money stops rolling in.

#1381 4 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I don't Stern is just going to junk all the pfs.... You'll see them slowly bring in the fixed pfs mixed in with older flawed pfs so I don't premiums will all be good and no question they aren't for LE hence the delay

My initial guess a couple weeks ago was that if Stern already made "bad" LE playfields, they could set them aside for premiums, and make a new run of "good" LE playfields. Take care of the highest-dollar customers. I have zero evidence of course, but there was a delay before building LEs.

11
#1636 4 years ago

Stern is never, ever going to publicly admit they have a major issue, nor make a peep when they correct it.

Back in 1997, Burger King had an issue with tainted meat. After the recall, they ran full-page newspaper ads about how the meat was now safe. That campaign crashed & burned. You know what worked? "Try the fries!" Don't remind the public you messed up.

EHOH = fries

#1638 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

When Chipotle had issues with theirs, they sent out coupons for a free burrito.

"Sorry about that JP2 clear. Let us earn back your business; free EHOH for everyone!"

All is forgiven.

11
#1847 4 years ago

Wow, that sounds exactly like what is happening in pinball. Even if not, it's an interesting post regardless. Thanks for sharing.

#1921 4 years ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

They would be smart to stop production altogether

AKA suicide in the manufacturing business

#1925 4 years ago
Quoted from Utesichiban:

So continuing to churn out defective product is the better option?

Yes, it is survivable. In manufacturing, the line is everything. Money is bleeding out of every pore while the line is stopped. If you churn out subpar product, you MIGHT go out of business. If the line stops for very long, you WILL go out of business.

#1950 4 years ago
Quoted from Jackalwere:

I work in quality in a manufacturing plant. The ability to stop the line to contain a defect and fix it is not suicide, it's incredibly important.

Stop it for a day or two? Sure. Stop it indefinitely while you investigate an issue that may take weeks or months to fully resolve? Maybe Toyota can afford that. I doubt a pinball manufacturer can. Just gotta slap a band-aid (washer) on it and keep moving, correct things as you go, eventually better parts make their way into the pipeline.

#1957 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

because there are already pictures of stuff made last week with the same issues.

Where? (I'm not doubting you, just really curious to see.)

#1963 4 years ago
Quoted from wlf_:

I'd basically bet my life on that having been made a "while" ago. Game was announced years back, that's gonna be an early prototype in the video. Wouldn't surprise me if it definitely was made before Jurassic Parks started going out.

One thousand percent this.

#1965 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

JP prem/LE which just started going out the door and have the same issues.
Pics out there of it.

Where? So far I've only heard good things about LE playfields. Premiums aren't shipping yet. But if there are still issues, I want to see them before my premium ships so I can cancel, if need be.

#2061 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Cancel your order yet?

Only reason I haven’t is that my kid is having a dinosaur-themed birthday party in late October. But I’m not sure I can swallow a defective $7k decoration.

#2074 4 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

With respect, your kid can have a very fun birthday party without you getting a $7K kick in the junk.

Get your logic ahead of your emotions. If you order one with the evidence we are starting to see with the "extremely low number of defective claims here at bullfuckingshit...I mean.... Stern headquarters," you have no one to blame but yourself.

When you're right, you're right.

#2076 4 years ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

But why would the apron be installed on soft gloss coat?

Because they were in a massive hurry to get JPLE on the line after taking a break to change the playfield art & clear.

#2152 4 years ago

So this is an interesting, promising development. Last night I played a freshly unboxed JPLE. It had the old style playfield, with art all the way under star posts, and no washers (except under the third flipper post). I checked all the problem areas with my phone flashlight. It looked absolutely perfect.

Pretty sure the local Chicago distributor had just picked it up Thursday or Friday, so it’s very newly made. Sorry I forgot to check the date. Anyway, for Stern to ship a game at this point with art under posts and no washers, means they at least think they have it figured out. Or so I hope.

#2190 4 years ago

Who sells those?

#2403 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Ok, I have a theory on this clearcoat issue ( hold your punches)

The guitar explanation someone gave sounds the most plausible/similar to me.

#2479 4 years ago

What the hell are you guys even arguing about at this point.

#2539 4 years ago

Yeah, I'm capable of a playfield swap but do NOT want to do it. There's a reason I'm paying a premium (pun intended) for a brand new game as opposed to a cheap fixer-upper.

1 week later
#2721 4 years ago

So glad I'm able to enjoy pinball for its intrinsic merits, not just which celebrity they slap on the lunchbox.

#2770 4 years ago
Quoted from V4Vendetta:

how the fuck does that even get passed the QC? zero quality control for item that cost thousands, fucking joke.

I understand how they could miss one sunken insert out of dozens per game, in hundreds of games, but it's how they handle the mistake that matters.

What I DON'T understand is how they can continue to ship defective coil stops. How many of those have gone out the door in the last year, thousands? Pinball Life sells a perfect replacement for five bucks; why can't Stern get quality parts?

1 week later
#3067 4 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

Played a JP premium that is a newer run. The clear coat was so thin the playfield art impressions were showing through it. Did not have a chance to touch it but guarantee you can feel it with your fingers.

Guess what? That's good! My new JP premium is exactly as you describe, and so is my Iron Man VE which I unboxed over five years ago and still has a perfect playfield. Sounds like they're back to the good stuff.

#3142 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

When a Stern sells on eBay, based on the fees published online, it certainly appears the distro pays 3% to PayPal & 10% to eBay.

So they net $6524 after fees on a Premium

On a Pro it’s a net of $5045 after fees.

You can negotiate better fees than those, but even with zero fees and full MSRP, I can assure you it's less than $1.5k profit per game.

3 weeks later
#3216 4 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

This is the first time I've witnessed countless collectors with significant collections tell Sterk to eat shit.

Eat shit, Sterk! ...feels so good to get that off my chest.

1 week later
#3297 4 years ago
Quoted from No_Pickles:

I wonder why they wouldn't design the artwork around the post with a little buffer space and a black line, like they did around the other slingshot parts?

They do now. It was never a problem before, and (to me at least) looks a lot better when the art is seamless around playfield features.

1 year later
#8445 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

A company succeeds on its own success or failure. The value of the investor or their past accomplishments are not vicariously attached to this new investment. If the company proves insolvent it simply sinks.

In theory yes, but sometimes rich business owners have a deep-rooted desire to keep things going long past the point of no financial return.

1 week later
#8567 2 years ago

That guy doesn't care about the playfields, he just wants to play devil's advocate and troll you. But feel free to try to convince him of something.

1 week later
#8640 2 years ago
Quoted from greeneye:

Is this the worst pooling/chipping you guys have seen yet?

Nah, gotta have bare wood to top GnR.

1 year later
#8999 1 year ago

That's a flipper alignment dimple. If you look in front the other flipper you'll see a (hopefully) normal one that indents the wood, but doesn't crack. Looks like the clearcoat didn't hold up to the pants presser.

2 weeks later
#9034 1 year ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

there are restrictions on the use of material these days that were not in place in the ‘80s. Perhaps the materials that were used are no longer available and the modern replacements are not quite the equivalent.

This is an oft-repeated assumption that's been shot down by a professional playfield restorer who I won't name for fear of misquoting him. Which chemical in Williams diamond plate is banned today? Be specific.

#9051 1 year ago
Quoted from JodyG:

This isn't true. I can buy numerous clear coats loaded with methylethylbadshit from my local auto paint supply place all day every day.

The article he posted was about Canadian regulations. So he's either willfully obtuse or doesn't know nearly all playfields are made in the USA.

2 weeks later
#9086 1 year ago

Novus 1 is just a cleaner, like a gentler windex. Go straight to Novus 2.

#9094 1 year ago
Quoted from ARTofAWD:

I certainly do not want to touch it before I give Stern a chance to try and rectify the issue themselves even if it's just them buffing it out.

No chance you hurt it with Novus 2 or something similar. It's okay to try to fix some things yourself instead of immediately making it the manufacturer's problem. It's stuff like this that hurts legitimate claims.

#9096 1 year ago

Rubbing some Novus 2 with a rag is "busting your balls?" My the hobby has changed.

#9101 1 year ago
Quoted from ARTofAWD:

I'm also assuming you meant to say

Nah, I meant what I said. Good luck!

#9108 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

people shouldn't have to deal with issues that should have been caught and fixed at the factory

Sure, I just don't know that one small area of poorly-buffed but still solid clearcoat qualifies as something that should've been caught & fixed at the factory. YMMV

#9111 1 year ago

Live a little. Try the Novus, don’t tell ‘em. Plus I think the guys at Stern are reasonable enough to know Novus 2 won’t hurt their clearcoat, unless it was already defective. They aren’t the “customer’s fault” company.

2 weeks later
#9131 1 year ago

I can imagine the outrage if it was happening to like half the Godzillas.

#9134 1 year ago

So you don't care if it's happening to 1 in 1,000 games, or 500 in 1,000? Yeah, you should probably steer clear of gambling.

#9136 1 year ago

My point at the time was, it WAS widespread, they just weren't admitting it. Stern seems to have it under control now.

#9139 1 year ago

I don't care what THEIR definition of widespread is, from the marketing department. I care what is actually widespread.

#9141 1 year ago

I accept the terms of your surrender.

1 month later
#9158 1 year ago

After the repair cures, you could mylar over that area and trim the drop target opening with a brand new razor sharp x-acto blade. Or snip the corners and fold the mylar flaps down into the hole, protecting the transition area. I've done that around outholes.

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