(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 months ago

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#109 4 months ago
Quoted from RobertWinter:

It's definitely happening with Munsters. Pictures from some of the problem areas on my Munsters Pro below. These issues were present immediately after unboxing.
I have also seen in-person similar bubbling/lifting on other Munsters Pros and LEs so mine is not an isolated case.
No chipping yet. Fingers crossed. Hesitant to move my outlane posts for fear of chipping/new bubbling.
I personally think it comes down to an ink/wood adhesion issue, not a clearcoat issue. Maybe a clearcoat over artwork reaction. There's no artwork under the sling posts on Munsters and the clear is not lifting under those. And if you take a close look at the outlane posts, it only seems to be lifting where there is artwork, not where there's only wood with clear over it.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

My brand new Iron Maiden Pro manufactured in June 2019 has the exact same issues. No chipping yet but I only have around 500 plays on it. I only have a picture of the star post right now but the same thing is happening in other areas of play field. Basically anywhere there is a post/contact with the table. Stern for sure has not fixed the issue unless it has been corrected within the past two months. I have opened a case with my distributor so I'll find out what Stern has to say in about a week. If it doesn't chip I can live with it. If it starts chipping I think it becomes unacceptable.

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#114 4 months ago
Quoted from jellikit:

New JP2 on route, washers no bubbling.[quoted image][quoted image]

I doubt the washers will prevent the pooling/bubbling. It might make it take longer but I think it will still happen. I have bubbling on posts that have washers installed on my Iron Maiden Pro.

#322 4 months ago
Quoted from libtech:

I wonder what percentage of Stern playfields are affected

I'm going with A LOT. I went to my local arcade and 2 of the 3 Sterns had some sort of pooling issue with the clear. Iron Maiden & Dealpool both had clearcoat issues. Star Wars looked to be ok. My brand new Iron Maiden has pooling around the posts and it was built in June 2019. The Iron Maiden at the arcade has been at the location for over a year. So you have two machines built over a year apart with the exact same issues. My playfield is dated 6-12 so it definitely came from a different production run. So in total 3 out of 4 Sterns that I have personally seen have some sort of clear issue. I'm not saying 75% have a problem but I think the issue is very common in my opinion.

#405 4 months ago

Well it finally happened. I was hoping the "pooling" wouldn't progress to the chip phase but it has. My NIB Iron Maiden has less than 600 plays. It has chipping around the starpost and has pooling around most of the other posts. I'm sure it's just a matter of time until those chip too. This has progressed much faster than I had expected and I have very little confidence this playfield is going to last very long. I've contacted my distributor so I will find out what Stern has to say soon hopefully.

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#409 4 months ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Ouch. Man that really sucks. But I guess since it took the art with it we can assume the ink-to-clear bond is good.
Has it been determined if the art "ripples" along with the clear? Or is the clear rippling above flat art? If the art ripples, it would seem to indicate an issue with adhesion to the wood. But most posts don't seem to have much line art around them to conclusively tell.

The chips I have seen have taken the art with them. The posts that don't have art around them seem to be holding up better. So it very well could be an adhesion issue but I don't think anyone knows with certainty right now unfortunately.

#553 4 months ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I've seen countless people complain that their machine is chipping and cracking, but I've seen just a few that have said they have contacted their distributor? Am I the only one that immediately reached out to their distributor?

I contacted my distributor within 3 weeks of ownership. They have contacted/submitted the pictures to Stern and we are waiting on Stern's response. Pretty hard for Stern to claim not within warranty when it's been less than a month unless they don't stand behind their product. I'm going to give them a chance to do the right thing so I hope they come through. I have a chip, pooling at most posts, plus pooling at other locations where something is attached to the playfield.

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#565 4 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

Not trying to downplay this issue. Again I have a TNA with some chipping around the star posts. I found these pictures pretty interesting. This was posted on the Dallas Facebook pinballs for sale. It is a location TNA that was on free play and pretty beat to shit. Selling for around $4750. Look at the drop targets and the amount of wear around them. Scoop is pretty bad as well. However, look at the chipping around the posts. Looks like mine but this one for sure has had 1000s upon 1000s of plays just based on the wear by the targets and because it being on free play on location. The wear is also because they are probably not changing the balls and waxing it. The wear around the posts does not look like it is getting worse which is good news. I have placed the neoprene washers under my posts to prevent further damage but this makes me feel a little better. Again still no excuse for the bad clear and hope things change.[quoted image][quoted image]

The wear around the drop targets is ridiculous. Chipping paint around posts is bad clearcoat. No ball ever touches that area so there should be no wear. IMO the clear chipped off quickly around the drop targets and once that happened the much softer wood was worn down quickly. This is is another example of a half-assed clearcoat job.

#584 4 months ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Have you read Stern's warranty? If not, you might want to read as it (the express warranty) doesn't cover playfields.
I'm guessing you mean the implied warranty. If so, I sure hope hey step up and get it fixed/replaced!

Yes I read it and I'm hoping they will do the right thing. One could argue this was a defect straight out of the box considering how quickly it happened. My distributor seemed optimistic and said Stern stands behind their products. He stressed how important it was for me to take pictures and send them to him asap. Guess I'll find out in a week or two what Stern had to say.

Thanks for the encouragement.

#619 4 months ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Tough tough situation for all involved. My suggestion is and this is not an end all be all solution, the manufacturers should accept documentation of any pooling or bubbling on the pf, with pictures and descriptions. The owner should receive a written confirmation that the documentation was received and put on file. If the pooling does not chip in a period of time, perhaps 2 years (?) then things remain as it is. If the pooling results in chipping then the manufacturer should offer a fully populated PF. The pooling is concerning but if it remains as it is around posts or elsewhere, it’s not that bad cosmetically and certainly no game changing of the flight of the ball. Hey, it’s one idea of I guess dozens.

I like your idea seeing as my playfield chipped in under 3 weeks I think I'd qualify lol

#772 4 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Went to a barcade yesterday and here's what i saw.
JP-pooling and chipping
IMDN-pooling and a piece of clearcoat flaking off in the middle of the playfield
Deadpool- didnt look but im sure it probably had issues as well.
At my house:
IMDN-pooling and chipping after 600 plays

Went to my local barcade and saw a similar thing: IMDN pooling at most posts(not chipping yet), pooling in one spot on Deadpool, didn't see any issues on Star Wars.

My IMDN chipped around 600 plays and has pooling at about 13 different places. The IMDN at the barcade is over a year old. Mine was manufactured in June. So two machines at least a year apart in manufacturing are having similar problems with the clear. Ironically my newer machine is worse.

1 week later
#1210 4 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Has anyone heard back from Stern on this issue? Its not much, but it at least JJP is recognizing that its an issue and have provided free play fields to people who are affected....has Stern done anything?

My distributor has been working with Stern for two weeks for chipping/pooling on my Iron Maiden Pro. No update yet. They asked me to be patient as it will probably take a while.

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#1368 4 months ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

It’s been going on for over a year across multiple titles so that weighed heavy in my personal decision. I feel for the distributors with LE allotments but otherwise must have had a clue this has been the new norm that would eventually catch up with them.

This is the part I struggle with. How could it have possibly taken a over a year for Stern to realize there was a problem? Did they truly not know or did they ship machines despite knowing the playfield issues existed?

1 week later
#1697 3 months ago
Quoted from Chrizg:

I have 2 Munsters with worse bubbles than this new JP.
Attached is why everyone is worried about these bubbles. This pic is of my Iron Madien and what these bubbles will turn into with heavy play.[quoted image]

My Iron Maiden did this on the exact same post in around 600 plays. I’m waiting on Stern’s response...

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#1844 3 months ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

And there’s a whole other interesting topic of discussion. Pooling.
ASSUMING it’s only ever pooling, and doesn’t get to chipping, should Stern pay to replace entire playfields? Not in my opinion.
Should they replace playfields with minor chipping near a post? I sure hope they do, cause I like my playfields perfect -but that’s the “collector” approach that I have. Assuming the chip doesn’t affect the gameplay, and the game still works as intended, why would a company offer to pay the costs of replacing playfields? Especially when they’ve previously syptated that playfields aren’t under warranty.
Only if it drastically affects future sales, is the answer.
Damn, I seriously hope we never get to paying for extended warranties as is common in some industries.

My playfield chipped in under 3 weeks of ownership. I have pooling/blistering at basically every post. Bottom line if Stern doesn't take care of me as a customer I will never do business with them again regardless what their "warranty" states. Not standing behind a product less then 30 days old qualifies as bad customer service to me and such a company doesn't deserve my money. Does Stern care? Guess I will find out eventually... My case has been open for about 4 weeks now and am still waiting for Stern to respond.

#1949 3 months ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

He accused me of it earlier so I’m just having fun with it.
Thinking more about your view point, I’ll say this:
You have an unrealistic level of expectation from Stern.
They have clearly stated that playfields are not under warranty.
You insist on a perfect playfield.
Neither of you is “wrong” but you have not agreed on this matter.
You appear to feel that Stern is obligated/indebted to provide perfect playfields and that anything less than 100% should be replaced at their expense. Remember that this is Stern pinball we’re talking about. It’s not Sony, Apple, or Toyota.
Yes, they are the biggest pinball manufacturer, but this is an industry that most people don’t even know exists.
There are no Ferrari’s in the parking lot.
Given this inability to agree on a perfect playfield, it’s really best for you to avoid buying new in box, and instead to wait and buy a second hand game that you can inspect, ensuring it’s to your satisfaction.
There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s not meant to belittle or insult you so I hope you can appreciate the observation.
Quite frankly, it shouldn’t matter one bit to me. But I get annoyed when some people (not saying you), can’t understand that Stern is already offering more than they have committed to, and then try to call them out for lying, sweeping things under the rug, etc etc. They may not be operating to your level of expectation, but that doesn’t mean that they’re deceitful or doing anything wrong.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable to not expect this on a playfield less than 3 weeks old. I'm not being a "perfectionist" I understand there is wear and tear in pinball. But this is clearly defective and Stern should stand behind their product. Virtually every post on my playfield has pooling/blistering/creep or whatever you want to call it. Most of these are probably going to chip considering how early the first chip happened. Unfortunately I didn't know about these issues before I made my purchase or I never would have. I could not in good faith recommend anyone buying NIB right now. Hopefully Stern comes through for me and changes my mind but as of right now this was my first and will be my last NIB Stern.

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#1955 3 months ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I don’t think anyone here would disagree with you. Good luck with a replacement. I do hope that Stern considers this on a “case by case basis” and rules in your favour.
Heads up though: the return decision and process is typically quite lengthy. Doesn’t happen quickly.

Thank you I appreciate the support. My distributor told me the same for the time frame. I'm not in a hurry as long as they make it right.

2 weeks later
#2513 3 months ago
Quoted from Talon2000:

Few hundred more plays and it just get's worse. Still no word from Stern, phone calls and emails. Still waiting.[quoted image][quoted image]

This is the original and not the new playfield you purchased from Stern correct? I really hope the replacement playfields are better.

How long have you been waiting on Stern's response? Have you tried your distributor?

Sorry you're having this problem and I hope Stern makes it right.

#2515 3 months ago
Quoted from Vinnie:

I don't think I'm being unreasonable to not expect this on a playfield less than 3 weeks old. I'm not being a "perfectionist" I understand there is wear and tear in pinball. But this is clearly defective and Stern should stand behind their product. Virtually every post on my playfield has pooling/blistering/creep or whatever you want to call it. Most of these are probably going to chip considering how early the first chip happened. Unfortunately I didn't know about these issues before I made my purchase or I never would have. I could not in good faith recommend anyone buying NIB right now. Hopefully Stern comes through for me and changes my mind but as of right now this was my first and will be my last NIB Stern.[quoted image]

I wanted to post a followup as I heard back from my distributor last week regarding my Iron Maiden chipping/pooling. Stern has offered to send me a non-populated playfield free of charge and I have accepted the offer. I know for some this would not be satisfactory but for me I feel it is a fair solution. I have not received the new playfield yet and was told 4-8 weeks before it ships. So I'm figuring a couple months give or take. Just for reference it took Stern about 4 weeks to provide a response to my distributor on the initial report of chipping. As long as I receive the playfield I will be happy and feel like Stern did the right thing standing behind their product. My machine was still within the 30 day return policy my distributor offers so I'm not sure if that had any influence on the decision or not. I'll post another update once I receive the replacement playfield.

#2522 3 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

What if Stern didn’t want to send you a populated PF because they knew it would chip again?
Better do that PF swap now so you can get a 3rd if that’s the case

Yes that’s a risk I’m assuming accepting an unpopulated playfield. I was thinking of letting the new one cure before installing it. Will it help? Not sure but that was my thinking.

#2525 3 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

That might have been the way I would have chosen to go.

I actually considered it until I took into account the hassle involved. Would have cost me About $300 in shipping plus I didn’t have the original shipping box, etc. Time will tell if I made the right decision or not.

#2608 3 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Finally had the time to document and email Stern about my IMDNLE blistering. Anyone hear back from them aside from the guy with the Jurassic park chipping etc?

Yes Stern sent me a non-populated playfield due to chipping and pooling/blistering. I just received it today. I was told 4-8 weeks but it arrived in less than two. The whole process took about two months from the time I reported it to my distributor until I received the replacement. My machine was less that 3 weeks old when it chipped so that may have been one of the determining factors. I sent a lot of pictures clearly showing the issues. Stern handles these issues on a case by case basis so it takes a while before they make a determination(took a month for my case). Good luck I hope they take care of you.

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#2651 3 months ago
Quoted from tilted81:

That playfield is updated like the jp’s Too correct? I haven’t lifted any posts on my maiden yet, but I think it’s solid artwork...

No it still has artwork around the posts. I don’t think any Iron Maiden playfields have been updated to clear only around the posts. Glad yours is ok so far.

3 weeks later
#2899 72 days ago
Quoted from Talon2000:

Yes for maiden.
I highly doubt it, probably left over stock, or seconds

I just recently received a replacement playfield for my Iron Maiden and can confirm it is exactly the same original design. It has art under the posts just like the original. The only difference depending on the age of your machine will be the updated Mylar under the back target. The newer playfields have a heavy silver material. The old ones were regular Mylar.

#2917 71 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Shame on people for accepting an unpopulated playfield as an acceptable remedy. Stern sold a defective product, end of story. Their options are to come pick their machine up and send a new one, or send someone out to swap in a populated playfield. Anything less is enabling Stern to produce even crappier products because they know they can get away with it.

So this issue has now somehow become the fault of the customer? And a customer who's only realistic recourse with Stern is an unpopulated playfield are enablers for Stern's poor quality control? Just because someone demands that Stern "Come pick up their machine and send a new one, or send someone out for a playfield swap" doesn't meant Stern is going to comply. I think your anger is misplaced and you need to dial the rhetoric back a notch.

4 weeks later
#3205 43 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

For what it is worth my distributor (Nitro) submitted my IMDNLE pictures to Stern last Wednesday and first thing this morning I received word that Stern has agreed to send me a replacement unpopulated playfield.
So maybe their process has matured and PF supply improved, at least with regard to IMDN.

Stern did the same thing for my Iron Maiden when I reported the chipping through my distributor. I was quoted 4 to 8 weeks for delivery but I received my replacement within a week. New playfield looks great. The clear feels super hard so hopefully this one won’t have issues. Comes pre dimpleD and drilled with all Mylar already installed.

Good luck with your replacement.

3 weeks later
#3531 20 days ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

We will see, I went with a large distributor so maybe that matters. Either way, if they do nothing I won’t buy another NiB from them again. I bought three this year and I know I’m small potatoes but it’s not bad for just a huo.
Luckily it’s not super visible as long as it doesn’t get any worse. It’s behind the angle.

My Iron Maiden chipped and the best I could do was get an unpopulated playfield. I really hope they take care of you. Buying three machines in one year is huge I would think. I hope that gives you some additional leverage.

#3532 20 days ago
Quoted from PinRob:

Has anybody ever found the chipped off part of the playfield in the game after it happens?

Yes I found my chips. I actually put them in a little plastic bag.

1 week later
#3838 10 days ago
Quoted from okgrak:

Is this considered “pooling”?[quoted image]

Yes. I hate to say it but it will probably chip soon.

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