Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:
But I didn’t think Stern had these issues? Kidding. And sorry for making a joke at your expense.
I hope everyone gets satisfaction from their manufacturer and distributor. Everybody knows that resale values matter in our hobby. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a fucking douchebag that likes long hard things rammed up their ass on a continual basis, to distract them from their otherwise clueless existence and basic moronic personality.
No problem. I probably said that at one point.
Really holding out hope Stern will not turn their head to this.
I can show you picks of a routed DE JP. No issues with the clear around the star posts on that one.
Quoted from zaphX:
Of course, we all do.
I'm just saying, some of the issues people are freaking about - coil stops, shooter springs - these are 60 second fixes easily done.
I think we could all do with assuming positive intent. The manufacturers of these games are not twisting their mustaches thinking up evil ways to piss off pinball buyers. The folks going this industry do it because they love pinball - it's obviously a very tricky business to be in (as evidenced by the high profile flameouts of others who have tried.)
Sure. Those are easy fixes I agree with you. But we are in a thread talking about clear coat issues. As a person who has bought 20+ NIB games, the clear on these games is absolutely terrible. I can live with a bubble here or there but when there is tearing and separation when the game has even been played I get a little pissed. Then you have people saying it’s not a big deal. Those are typically not the people buying the games and those that are probably don’t know any better.
Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love this game but let’s compare a game that is 30+ years old to one that had no plays. Which looks better to you? The game that is 30+ years old or the one that was born on August 17th 2019.
Quoted from cpr9999:
Did you chat with distributor/Stern and what are they willing to do?
My distributor sent pictures to Stern. Still waiting for an answer.
Still waiting for an answer on my WONKA as well but that has been over a month.
Surprisingly my Black Knight Premium looks perfect.
Quoted from PtownPin:
Has anyone heard back from Stern on this issue? Its not much, but it at least JJP is recognizing that its an issue and have provided free play fields to people who are affected....has Stern done anything?
They never got back to me either when I couldn’t update GOT.
No worries. Sorry you are having issues as well.
Quoted from jfh:
Good advice if you want a Premium; not so much if you are interested in an LE. I’ve never understood why LEs go first before production issues are worked out.
Sell them while the hype is high. If they waited they would have less people buying LEs. Elvira has already been announced. Hype train keeps rolling.
I stopped buying LEs. There is no value in them IMHO.
Quoted from zaphX:
In the vein of "making the best of a bad situation"...
Titan Pinball has released some silicone washers for the playfield problem. Thought I'd pass the link on in case people haven't seen them.
That won’t do anything to fix this problem
See. There is already a washer Stern placed on the game.
Quoted from bigd1979:
I bought a wonka le a few weeks ago with some pooling around some of the posts(no chipping) . First thing i did when i got it home and set up was take sling post off and few other post on the lower half of the playfield. I used big washers under the posts and lightly tightened them and let it sit overnight. The next day i removed them and everything was relatively flat and back in place. From what i cld tell a combination of overtighteneing along with the inward pressure of the rubbers along with sling going off which created more inward pressure caused the art work to start bunching up. I went to Lowe's and found nylon and rubber washers that i added under those areas and didn't over tighten anything . So far after hundreds of plays everything has been ok and no pooling/movement has occurred and the playfield looks great with hardly any dimples and the clear looks very nice. Eventually ill probably order the nicer lookin clear titan silicone washers but I'm happy so far with everything. [quoted image][quoted image]
The question is if there is pooling and the washers are on it will the artwork pull off when the post/washer is removed in the future.
Quoted from iceman44:
Who is gonna organize the attack on Stern at expo and demand answers from them on the spot? Or will it be the usual ass kissing contest?
Need to hammer away like this thread until they cave!
Tie yourselves together in a human blockade and block off the exits until we get some info!
Or no one attends! That would send a clearer message that people are not happy.
Quoted from hawkmoon77:
For what it's worth, I build musical instruments as a hobby, and there is a known issue with lacquer pooling around the guitar tuners on the headstock. I don't know if it is a similar cause here, but with regard to guitars -- if this happens, it has almost everything to do with curing. Here are some factors:
- 3 thin coats spaced 30 minutes apart, then a full nights cure, then repeat the next day. Then allow a few weeks before tightening the guitar tuners on. This allows the solvents to evaporate correctly between sprays. Applying too thick of a coat too soon will trap the solvents as the outer layer "skins." And while reducing the overall thickness of the clear would help prevent the problem, super thin clear coats aren't generally well received in the guitar world (where applicable) because they lack visual depth and have poor wear resistance.
- Tightening a guitar tuner on uncured clear will trap solvents under the nut. These trapped solvents will soften the paint or finish underneath. This will manifest as a flaking clear coat.
- In the luthier world, it's called creep. It happens to glue and clear coats. A thick glue, when squeezed together,will push out slowly over time during the drying process resulting in what is being called pooling here. This is removed before finishing, but a thick, built up clear coat will do this too. The continuous pressure on uncured clear will cause it to slowly migrate toward the outer edges and pool or bubble. The trapped solvents will then leach into the underlying finish, softening it, and making it flake off. If is unpainted natural wood, it is less likely to happen because the solvents leach into the raw wood and disperse better. The hardest part is that creep is difficult to catch because it all looks fine at first until a week or so later when the clear slowly migrates out to the edges.
The luthier community solved this problem a long time ago by applying more thin coats instead of fewer thicker coats, letting them dry between coats, and then allowing it to cure before covering up portions of it with screwed down nuts. Every so often, the issue re-emerges when a manufacturer decides to save time by changing up the process.
I am NOT saying that is what is happening to the PFs, and there are other things that can cause similar problems (like overtightening, bad lacquer chemistry, bad surface prep, etc.), but I can't help notice a similarity between these problems.
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Seems similar to the playfield issues.
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