(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

54 days ago

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  • Latest reply 11 minutes ago by Who-Dey
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#75 54 days ago
Quoted from quickstop:

Here is a pic of my Maiden Pro chipping. I never noticed the chipping until I found the missing piece in another area.[quoted image]

That sucks.

How many people just went and checked their Maiden?!

I had cabinet issues but Stern took care of that.

Funnily enough the playfield is one of the best I have ever had.

It didn't ever seem to dimple, from day 1.

It really is a crapshoot these days!

#128 53 days ago

Also, the band aid approach of adding washers underneath, is just going to push the ripples further out?

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#189 52 days ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

And I wanted a JP premium. Might as well save my dough.

And also want a JP2 but this is an issue, I can't even talk myself out of

Usually use the 'you only live once' rationale to buy another game but in this case, I just don't want the stress of picking up a 'pooler'.

#202 52 days ago

Stern and JJP must be seriously worried by these issues.

How much would it cost to replace all the defective playfields? Especially if fully populated?

No wonder no one is saying anything.

If they admit liability, the floodgates open.

Man, I hope this issue gets rectified quickly.

#254 50 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

This problem is ink adhesion problem from digital printing direct on the playfield not the clear coat
the ink is coming away from the playfield, in the past clear would chip leaving the artwork behind
this is why you will never see this on any screen printed Playfield

I think you may be right.

This picture isn't clear coming off.

It's like a bad playfield overlay that is coming off.

Makes sense that the ink is not adhering to playfield.

How much more does it cost to do good old screen printed?

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#294 49 days ago

I suspect this problem is on way more games than people realise unfortunately.

When the pooling is bad, it's very obvious.

But minor is only detected when you look very closely.

Don't have a good feeling for how these playfields are going to hold up over the years.

Sadly, this has 'cured' my pinball addiction of wanting the new, shiny.

#313 49 days ago

So, something changed in 2018?

That means EVERY playfield made in this time period is possibly subject to 'blistering'.

The question now, is will the blistering be stable for years or are playfields a ticking time bomb?

#363 48 days ago

Minor rippling is very hard to see.

Dread to think how bad this issue could get if people start looking with torches!

I take it as a given that a huge amount of playfields have minor rippling.

Maybe they will last 20 years like this?

Or rapidly deteriorate in a year or two?

That is the big unknown.

#388 48 days ago

Would really like to know how this will be dealt with.

Will there be a time limit to make a claim? There is no specific Stern playfield warranty?

And like GB - how much pooling/rippling do you have to have to be offered a new playfield?

From anecdotal evidence Stern playfields from early 2018 have this issue. Will they be covered? Thinking not.

#451 47 days ago

My Maiden pro was built May 2018.

Playfield never had dimpling and it is super glossy.

I found one bit of rippling ( that I wouldn't have seen if I didn't look very closely ).

My only longer term worry is why some rippling turns to cracking and peeling?

Also, it seems to be happening at a faster rate on the latest games.

I decided to mylar just this spot to give the area longer term protection as the ball really whacks this post!

Only other thing I will do now is avoid games built 2018/19, until it is certain Stern/JJP have solved this issue.

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#471 47 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It's good Stern is including washers on some or all of the newest JP games but that is also just an admission to a playfield issue that they are saying doesn't exist...

And the washers will only delay the issue.

But as no one is sure what the warranty is on playfields, I guess a delay is good for the manufacturer as the longer the time period from buying a game, the less the consumer can do.

#554 46 days ago
Quoted from BertoDRINK1:

My Star Trek Pro Vault was purchased late January HUO with a playfield protector since day one. I sent my distributor pics of all the posts blistering and 2 areas that have chipped to the wood. Only 800 plays.
This was his response.
There is nothing that can be done about it, as it is a common thing and it is out of warranty.

So, there it is.

Any game made in 2018, won't be remedied.

Time for the band aid approaches for those games effected.

Better chance if the game is fresh out of the box.

I won't be taking that chance though.

#698 43 days ago
Quoted from mrgone:

I took these pics about 2 hours ago.
The jp has been on location for two days and was unboxed there.
So either the washers were put on at the location at unboxing or came from the factory.[quoted image][quoted image]

Tiny bit of pooling even with the washers.

People are loving JP2 but I have got my patience hat on and will wait for as long as it takes for Stern to remedy this.

#699 43 days ago

What the odds that this becomes the new normal?

Better than chipping and pooling for sure.

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#939 38 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Yeh I can definitely see your side. These issues are happening out of the box, so the argument that “ this is pinball” doesn’t really hold when no pinball has been played on the game.
I’ve had my fair share of serious Playfield issues. Almost all other issues can be resolved relatively easily. But Pf damage is usually “terminal”. I’m lucky in that I have the equipment and space to do a full pf swap - (and I actually enjoy it). But I still believe having a brand new NOS pf to offer when selling a game is at least as good or even better than a used one installed.

I think for a new game out of the box, a populated is the way to go as it's clearly a day 1 manufacturing fault ( 1 - 12 weeks timeline ).

Or just return whole game for a refund.

If a game is older had a fair amount of plays, then a NOS playfield is a pretty good outcome.

#1088 36 days ago
Quoted from jfh:

It’s not going to be what they announce at Expo that will put Cleargate behind us; It will be how they answer for it. At minimum both Stern and JJP are going to have to articulate a plan forward that will satisfy the community and their lawyers.
A dream theme won’t make up for a nightmare playfield. I have been waiting for Stern Elvira 3 and JJP Toy Story for a long time. But I’m not buying either unless I know that the playfields are fixed and the manufacturer will make it right if they aren’t (and an unpopulated playfield won’t cut it).
I am undecided about going to Expo this year but if I do I will make my stand of no NIB purchases until this is resolved known and hope that others will do the same. If reports of sales slowdowns for JP2 and Wonka because of Cleargate are true, then we should be getting attention. Anyone concerned needs to keep their wallets closed until Cleargate is history.

Well, Deeproot couldn't have asked for a better time and place to reveal their game.

The door is wide open. Can they walk on through?

#1109 36 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

I was going to start buy more EMs, because of all of this cost cutting talk on NIBs. But then I remembered those cheap SOBs at Gottlieb switched from chromed metal posts to cheap white plastic posts in the mid-60s. Good thing Pinside wasn't around then. The nerve of them.

Worse than that they got rid of woodrails because metal rails were half the price of wood! Pinside in the 1950's would have exploded

#1246 33 days ago
Quoted from Flipnaught:

I have had my Deadpool since April with an early April Manufacturing date, no pooling or chipping. Over 2500 plays on it, home use only. Playfield looks great.

Makes me think Stern have multiple playfield vendors.

And one of them is especially poor at the moment.

1 week later
#1718 22 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Nice to see those washers protecting the playfield.

Who the hell would even buy a washer version even on the second hand market?

So far it seems the new no art versions are doing ok.

#1804 20 days ago

And now we have the latest news that Deeproot will offer a 10 year playfield warranty.

10 years.

Yes, it's still all talk but boy if they deliver, Stern and co have every right to be getting pretty worried.

#1850 20 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

For what it's worth, I build musical instruments as a hobby, and there is a known issue with lacquer pooling around the guitar tuners on the headstock. I don't know if it is a similar cause here, but with regard to guitars -- if this happens, it has almost everything to do with curing. Here are some factors:
- 3 thin coats spaced 30 minutes apart, then a full nights cure, then repeat the next day. Then allow a few weeks before tightening the guitar tuners on. This allows the solvents to evaporate correctly between sprays. Applying too thick of a coat too soon will trap the solvents as the outer layer "skins."
- Tightening a guitar tuner on uncured clear will trap solvents under the nut. These trapped solvents will soften the paint or finish underneath. This will manifest as a flaking clear coat.
- In the luthier world, it's called creep. It happens to glue and clear coats. A thick glue, when squeezed together,will push out slowly over time during the drying process resulting in what is being called pooling here. This is removed before finishing, but a thick, built up clear coat will do this too. The continuous pressure on uncured clear will cause it to slowly migrate toward the outer edges and pool or bubble. The trapped solvents will then leach into the underlying finish, softening it, and making it flake off. If is unpainted natural wood, it is less likely to happen because the solvents leach into the raw wood and disperse better. The hardest part is that creep is difficult to catch because it all looks fine at first until a week or so later when the clear slowly migrates out to the edges.
The luthier community solved this problem a long time ago by applying more thin coats instead of fewer thicker coats, letting them dry between coats, and then allowing it to cure before covering up portions of it with screwed down nuts. Every so often, the issue re-emerges when a manufacturer decides to save time by changing up the process.
I am NOT saying that is what is happening to the PFs, and there are other things that can cause similar problems (like overtightening, bad lacquer chemistry, bad surface prep, etc.), but I can't help notice a similarity between these problems.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very interesting.

So pooling becomes 'creeping'.

I think every washer version, is going to suffer from creeping.

#1915 19 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

I think you'll be waiting a long time for this. I don't ever recall seeing a public statement about the Ghostbusters ghosting.

They did update manuals to saying ghosting is normal though

#2088 17 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Whatever you say Buddy. You’re “not a Stern basher”?
Then why were you so quick to post that all of these things are time bombs, and that the paint is flaking (Which doesn’t appear to be the case) IMMEDIATELY after seeing those pics, without any real information?
I can appreciate that I have an unpopular opinion, and will get downvoted, but you went so far as to downvote my deleted post AFTER I deleted it. You’re so angry, you’re not being objective anymore.
You label me “Pro Stern”, yet all I’ve said is that buyers expecting collector quality playfields have themselves to blame ever since Stern states that play fields are no longer warrantied. That’s not pro-Stern buddy, that’s just recognizing their offering and stating it publicly.
You upvote these idiots who are so quick to jump on the “down with Stern” comments. You guys really do make this the least pinball-friendly site in existence.
I’m all for hawkmoon sharing his pics and relaying his dealings with Stern. It’s good for everyone to know what to expect if they have a similar situation. But what you and many others are doing is more along the lines of slander.
Seriously. Take a stroll over to the JPLE thread. With (I think) 2 exceptions: hawkmoon and a guy with some scratches on his playfield, everyone seems to be whoopin it up, having a blast with their new games.
And yet you and the rest of the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol are in here, telling everyone not to buy new machines cause they’re all defective.
Unfortunately, there are about 20 Pinsiders who share your view and they’re in here downvoting anyone like myself, constantly.
Fortunately, their opinions really don’t matter cause the rest of Pinside is enjoying their games (be it JJP, Stern, Bally, whatever).
I have issues and complaints with Stern. Personally I think that someone over there needs to design a much better auto-launch mech. I’m also annoyed that when I bought my ACDC, it was about 50% less than what I’m paying for a premium, currently. The difference between people like you and people like me is, I understand that currency has a part in that, and that my country charges taxes on the value AFTER currency, AND that Stern has the right to charge whatever the market is willing to pay! In short, I’m not in here screaming bloody murder like a four year old who dropped his cookie, because I try to take the time to understand both sides instead of just “me, me, me”.
There’s nothing wrong with sitting out for a bit and waiting for fewer reports of playfield issues. There appear to be far more than usual on the recent Jurassic Park Pro models. It sucks. There’s no arguing that.
But the ratio of LEs that appear to be fine also deserve to be mentioned. It appears to be back to “normal”.
Then yesterday we see a game with some kinda weird tear/scratch in it, and the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol sounds the sirens, with one member saying something as stupid as “Stern had three tries and flunked them all” -because he’s found 3 people with issues! (Not to mention your comments about how you just KNOW that because you can’t see a scratch in the wood, that this is an ongoing, serious issue.)
All of you PPPP members need to shake your heads and try to see things objectively. Not from the “pro Stern” stance -but not from the usual: “1 guy had a problem... let’s all post numerous memes about how bad Sterns QC is! DOWN WITH STERN! DOWN WITH STERN!”
Seriously. As I’ve always said, the sharing of ACCURATE information is the tool, that could make Pinside a great place.
The spreading of rumours/accusations, founded on little/no information, prevents this from being a great place.
Warranties are easy to figure out. Read it before you buy a game. Have realistic expectations before laying down your money is pretty much what I’ve said all along.
FYI: last night I decided to go in 50/50 with a buddy for a JPLE. So yeah, I have “skin in the game”.
Final suggestion: if you want to hate on me, just downvote my post(s). If you reply to this and call me out, I’ll likely reply again and again, dragging this on. I’ve said more than enough already and way more than I intended, when I came in here to show how silly some people are for slandering Stern.

And that is the problem with downvoting.

It's supposed to be just 'I disagree' but it ends up getting everyone's back's up.

It's not supposed to be hate.

Gotta love social media with all it's hooks and things like this.

All to keep us on the pages a little longer

#2110 17 days ago
Quoted from hawkmoon77:

Quick Update:
Stern has been fast to respond to my emails. They said they sent my pictures to quality control and offered to send me a bottle of clear touch-up to mitigate the paint peeling issue.


I want Stern to succeed but this is just crazy.

#2189 11 days ago
Quoted from T7:

I agree - but it's been that way for about 5 years.

Thats why first thing I do is cover the inlane.

Not a fan of playfield protectors but love these.

black-knight-sword-of-rage-premium-le-shooter-lane-protector (resized).jpg
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