Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Those are prices just for a new cabinet. The official GoldenTee TV stand (bolts to cabinet) is around $400 but a cheap wall mount or TV stand works fine. I bought a wall mount on Amazon for $20 and picked up a 55" TCL 5 series TV at Best Buy for $280.

Quoted from Fytr:

Best advice I can give is to find a nice used one that you can inspect closely prior to purchase. Failing that, maybe you have a local distributor and you can get one of their demo machines, or possibly have them unbox your game so you can inspect it prior to taking possession. Though my preference would always be a used game with some mileage on it so lurking issues are more likely to have shown up.

Quoted from jfh:

Good luck finding a distributor that would give you such an open ended guarantee without a significant restocking charge.

Quoted from romulusx:

Safe build dates October 2019

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Yeah. After playing it a bunch of GT these past 2 days I can see why a lot of pinball fans like it. While GT is basically a computer game it still has a physical element to it like pinball. The computer part allows online play to be standardized so that every game plays the same and can't really be cheated.
I would love to see the stat tracking, online, and player profile features of GT come to pinball. I'm kinda surprised it hasn't at this point. I can see Stern being the first to implement something like this. Preventing cheating will be a concern though.
Sorry for all the GT posts, hopefully it's a sign that playfield issues are resolved on current builds!

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Yeah. I wonder if Stern and or JJP could implement an online mode for games that only works if the game itself recognizes the correct pitch (within a certain degree), and that the glass is on. The glass part could be pulled off by some type of marker on the glass and or the lockdown bar / glass channel at the top of the game both detecting that the glass is there.

Quoted from romulusx:

When JJP had issues with the first run of Wonka’s that shut down production!They fixed the issues and restarted production and me and as far as I know other owners have been very pleased with the latest run.No pooling no chipping no ghosting Problem solved

Quoted from Who-Dey:

Exactly! If you are rich it's not a big deal to eat 5 or 10 grand but to some people like myself, that is a shitload of money that I personally cannot afford to lose. It takes me a hell of a long time and a lot of hard work to buy one of these games and I want it to be great quality. That shouldn't be too much to ask for from a 6-12K product.

Quoted from JodyG:

This is a tough one...I don't really blame Goetz for trying to get a suitable remedy for being sold very expensive lemon. But I also respect Joe for coming on here and addressing the facts he has on his side and staying professional about it. Not many distributors out there will even answer the phone (per se) after the sale. At the end of the day, I think both parties want the same thing...and Jack is screwing his distributor AND his end customer.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Okay, but then comes the inevitable question..."How has CGC handled dimpled playfield issues? Better or worse than JJP and/or Stern?"

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, my WhiteWater has over 25 years of play on it now, and has nothing like the dimpling that I have seen some pictures of here. I guess my question should have been phrased as "Is the CGC playfield quality similar to the original B/W quality, or is it more like the current JJP/Stern quality?"

Quoted from bigehrl:

Wow! Could you imagine if that was OJ's legal team's approach to the defense. "Forget about him murdering his ex-wife, as well as lying to authorities, because none of that matters at all. What matters is he paid BIG MONEY for his Ferrari, and her lover was driving around town in it. So instead of charging him with Double-Homicide, you should be on the phone with MARCIA CLARK screaming at her in Simpson's defense.
I have a strong feeling the verdict would have been drastically different.

Quoted from bigd1979:

Anything from mid to late September on seems to be ok. At least no reported issues on pins from then on.

Quoted from PtownPin:

These distributors essentially have ZERO pull with the manufacturers....Stern actually has the cash to deal with these problems....JJP doesn't .... I'm sure if Jack was being honest he would agree that all these shitty games should be replaced...negotiating a discounted deal on another game is really a win win for both parties.

Quoted from PtownPin:

Totally agree although once they accept the play field and start adding components they probably own it.

Quoted from Bublehead:

My take on dimples and CGC is the current quality of playfield wood is WAY worse for every manufacturer making playfields today, not just CGC, but everyone. It has been said that the quality of the plywood was way better in the 90’s and before, and I believe it. Now I do believe CGC is using the best wood they can find, but my MBrLE looks like its been hit with about a thousand tiny ballpean hammers... I’ve seen quite a few original WMS MB’s around here in the Phoenix area that are still as smooth as the day they came out of the box, minus severe chipping around the scoop. My remake, although no where near as bad as a Stern, had a great looking playfield out of the box, the silk screen process was perfect. If they could have just put it on a nicer piece of wood with a nice old fashoined real high VOC clear coat would have been better. So not as bad as Stern or JJP, but not as good as old WMS/Bally/Midway used to sell. Maybe it will dimple flat over time... right

Quoted from Mike_J:

This is complete nonsense.
The guy dropped 12K on a pinball machine and is essentially taking it up the ass. I don’t care if the buyer is a liar, a bank robber or whether he cheated on his SATs. It’s all irrelevant. What is relevant is that he paid 12K for a pinball machine.
The distributor and manufacturer each got their share of the 12K and the buyer is left with a piece of shit. What other industry operates like this?

Quoted from pinballwil:

If you don't like dimples ( big ones) like me, buy a protector.
And if you don't want pooling your Stern JP or jjp wonka make a anti pooling protector like i do for my machines.[quoted image]

Quoted from JodyG:

I think the best bet for people who have been burned by a pinball manufacturer is to file a complaint with their state attorney general/consumer protection agency/lemon law program. I don't see any other way you have any teeth in this situation. What is going on is wrong, and the manufacturers need to be placed back into reality.

Quoted from pinballwil:

Yes completely. Install these in the factory or loose in the box, just like the old days.
You can buy every 5 years a new one to make your machine "new". Or remove them if you want to sell your machine.

Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:

Thats what I said a while back. I just installed a hardtop on my BK, and I am very pleased with its ability to resist dimpling. But to be fair, it has not been played yet.
HOWEVER I did drop a ball in the under-apron area to see the hardtops ability to deal with airballs. I dropped a ball from 6"...no dent or dimple. I dropped a ball from 12"...no dent or dimple. I dropped a ball from 24"...no dent or dimple. Finally I dropped a ball from 36"...a small dent (3/16") was made to the wood, but NOT the hardtop itself.
There was no visual or physical dent or dimple to the hardtop at all. So from what I have seen thus far, I think the overlay is going to be more resistant to dimples, than what has been shown in the thread from the new playfields at Stern and JJP. Time will tell, but I am very optimistic, and I have yet to see where anyone who has installed a HT, has claimed that the surface is getting dimpled.
Just seems to me that the hardtop like overlay is another untapped option, that is not being explored. But maybe it is...who the Hell knows? Also seems to me that it MIGHT be more economical from a manufacturing POV, to go wit the printed overlay rather than painting the playfields. Or maybe put a clear overlay over the painted playfield from the factory.
Maybe its time for the process to evolve, especially if its determined that the overlay can reduce dents and dimples.

Quoted from guitarded:

'Barely an inconvenience.'

Quoted from guitarded:

Ever see the Pitch Meeting guy on Youtube?
It's his canned line for any suggestion the 'Exec' makes.

Quoted from Dr-pin:

Can it really be called qc-issues when you produce a game and gets reports of clearcoat issues and then goes on and producescthe next game with the same issues?
That`s not a case of lacking qc, but more of to much CBA.

Quoted from DerGoetz:

JJP ordered a perfectly fine playfield from Mirco and paid Mirco in prefectly fine Euros, they are not at fault as a manufacturer for the initial issue.
They are as much victim as the rest of us.

Quoted from o-din:

Kinda like going thru a drive thru and not opening the bag to check your food until you get home and you decide to eat it anyway instead of returning it.

Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

Agreed. I went over my BM66 with a fine toothed comb when I read about this stuff and luckily no issues. I do hope JJP figures something out for these owners. I would also love to get a new POTC, now that they seem to have their clearcoat issues figured out (according to statements from newer run Wonka owners).

Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

No, but I hope they get back on the line, at some point, now that the cc issues are resolved.

Quoted from romulusx:

Buy the Wonka,you won’t regret it!
It’s very possible that POTC never gets put back in production.Thats all speculation.

Quoted from romulusx:

Buy the Wonka,you won’t regret it!
It’s very possible that POTC never gets put back in production.Thats all speculation.

Quoted from romulusx:

My second perfect Wonka SE was built October 30 2019

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

There's a big difference between signing an NDA and being asked to not share specific details of your case on pinside. I'm free to discuss my situation. But until my UPS package hits my front porch, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

Quoted from PtownPin:

Its pretty simple...they are running on fumes, and they can't afford it...I find it very telling that the distributor jumps on this forum to defend himself (which is fine), and then disappears when asked to answer a very simple question.....whats a reasonable resolution?

Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

He means they can't afford to populate and ship replacement playfields. Even if Mirco is providing all the new pfs for free, they would have to purchase all the mechs and plastics, etc to populate them and then pay the workers to do so.

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Um...they're not going to re-use parts on new builds. Would YOU re-use old parts on a new assembly line?

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Well, they COULD do a playfield swap program whereby you send them your populated playfield, and they use your parts to populate a replacement playfield and then send it back to you.
Unfortunately, this would be very labor intensive and therefore expensive (not to mention shipping issues).
Ideally, JJP would just do an exchange of populated playfields, but if they are in financial distress, I can see why it would be difficult.
But this brings up a bigger point, why would I want to buy an expensive item from a company that can't afford to support it (assuming they even wanted to)?
If I'm buying something like this, I want to be sure that problems will be handled (and parts will be available). If JJP is on the "edge", then I'm going to look elsewhere.

Quoted from Oaken:

It’s all well and good in theory to push responsibility down the production food chain until you get to who is ultimately responsible but in my experience more often then not when you do that as a manufacturer, you put your supplier out of business.
So then you as a manufacturer are still left holding the bag and now you have no more supplier either. Which may or may not put YOU out of business. So what do you do? You turn around and squeeze your customer to just stay alive for one more day. Whether that is the end consumer or yet another manufacturer higher up the food chain than you.
No one wins in these things. Everyone is angry (justifiably so). And all it would have taken to likely prevent this shitshow in the first place was adequate QC.

Quoted from Oaken:

I guess it depends on the number of companies in the supplier base and whether the competition can absorb the increased demand. My experience there were not so many players (single sourced suppliers frequently) so there is that.
But as far as compensation for defects, it won’t really matter if you have 1 or 100 other suppliers. If the one that did you wrong can’t pony up, you are still on the hook. Sure going forward you can X them out of your supply base, but in the crisis, you are still stuck.

Quoted from PtownPin:

If JJP is under pressure to actually turn a profit (which has to be the case), then they can't afford it...could they do it and continue to lose money...of course
From an investors prospective its an easy analysis.....cost of replacing play fields vs lost sales due to pissed off customers....clearly they have chosen the later path. I don't agree with it, but thats my guess.

Quoted from snaroff:

Unfortunately, manufacturing and business and tightly woven. Sub-contractors (in home building) and assembly line workers (in pinball) are given quotas they have to meet. .

Quoted from mbeardsley:

It may not be that they get paid per machine...but if worker "Joe" is only assembling 3 machines a day (and keeps bringing up "problems"), but worker "Fred" assembles 5 machines a day (and never seems to mention any issue)...which guy gets to keep the job when funds get tight?
Eventually, you have a lot of "Freds" and very few "Joes" making your machines.

Quoted from mbeardsley:

Except for when you've got distributors waving money saying "where are those machines you promised" and creditors waving bills saying "when are you going to pay these".
That's when you're laying off the Joes and hiring more Freds.

Quoted from romulusx:

I’m getting tired of saying this but I’m pretty sure everything coming off of production line from October to now is good!I’m not trying to schill or whatever you call it for JJP
If anybody with a confirmed production after October has an issue please post machine and production date

Quoted from V4Vendetta:

What I find to be funny is that none of you guys have problem with how Goertz keeps talking about his CE customer treatment?
So you are pissed that you got treated same as a standard or LE buyer cuz you bought a fucking CE model?? So LE buyer should get prefered treatment over standard buyers?? Just cuz you bought a machine that cost little more money you think that puts you on some kind of damn pedestool? None of you have a problem with that? what a fucking joke.

Quoted from V4Vendetta:

he was told that because he first asked if ce buyers get prefered treatment so that mentality was there to begin with.

Quoted from caz1844:

Ok sounds good, I'll look for that. What does stern do if you start to see pooling on the posts or dimpling on the PF?

Quoted from caz1844:

Ok sounds good, I'll look for that. What does stern do if you start to see pooling on the posts or dimpling on the PF?

Quoted from Flipstream:

Under 300 plays on my Pro, build date Sept 7. Easily visible dimpling, but not nearly as bad as some of the other pictures in this thread. All three of these pictures were taken with the glass on. No special lighting, only the light from the backglass and LCD is shining off the playfield.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Quoted from Flipstream:

I don't like it in a control freak/OCD way, but I accept it is normal. Pinballs are a lot denser than wood and clear-coat.

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Please name and shame the distro. I don't want to do business with any distributor that doesn't help the customer after the sale, and neither should anyone else. Of course all sales are final, barring a major or game-breaking defect, but good distributors will go out of their way to help make things right. As best they can anyway. There are too many good distros out there to do business with a bad one.

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Why doesn't my 25 year old STTNG look like that then?

Quoted from iloveplywood:

I've had three games; a restored TAF, a TNA, and a BM66. The TAF had no dimples that I could see after a couple of thousand plays over three years. The TNA had some dimples, I don't own the machine anymore so I'm going off memory, but I think I really had to look to see them and they were few and far between. My BM66 started dimpling right away and it's very noticeable, hard not to notice actually. I've put 1500 games on it and so far no "evening out."
Honestly, the only reason this bothers me is that it hurts the resale value, I still think the game looks great overall. Thankfully, BM66 is my favorite of the three by far and I see myself keeping it for a long time so I think I'll get my money's worth out of the machine regardless. If I had not liked it and wanted to do a quick resale I think I would have had to take a few hundred less in resale which would have been a bummer.
Where did the whole evening out thing come from anyway -- was Steve Ritchie being sarcastic, trolling us? It seems like the most patently ridiculous theory I've ever heard. Do people really believe this?

Quoted from iloveplywood:

Yeah, I should have said the only reason it would bother me is if it did impact resale. I mean I prefer no dimples, but I don't consider it a big deal personally.

Quoted from dugmar:

Because of profits, board meetings, shareholders and all the stuff we hate about the robotic corporate mentality. That is why Spooky and other boutique manufacturers will be the only place I will ever consider for NIB games going forward. A playfield wood upgrade may be something you actually see from one of these smaller manufacturers.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Whatever that is all over the back of the playfield will also be in the back of the inserts making them looked shit when the LEDs are on.. We have some games like that.

Quoted from JodyG:

I guess when the majority of your machines have clearcoat defects, the defective ones become the norm, and perfect ones are abnormal. Congrats on your abnormal machine!