(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 9,207 posts
  • 704 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 66 days ago by PinMonk
  • Topic is favorited by 177 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

B47B97EA-8C60-4AB2-82E1-941265D53DCF (resized).jpeg
E51185C3-D30B-46BA-ABE3-0D2C1472D3FF (resized).jpeg
AC060B74-B84E-4C3C-9A87-454A9BFB2FC5 (resized).jpeg
Pinside_forum_7592500_0 (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_7592500_2 (resized).jpg
Pinside_forum_7592500_1 (resized).jpg
IMG_20221008_211349 (resized).jpg
Capture2 (resized).PNG
IMG20221008031914 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008032533 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008033119 (resized).jpg
IMG20221008034651 (resized).jpg
20220919_071252 (resized).jpg
IMG_20220820_032754 (resized).jpg
IMG_20220820_025439 (resized).jpg
20210920_172949 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mostater.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#8395 2 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

TL;DR
I have worked with a silicon based high temp clear coating that we were developing to be used in the aircraft lighting industry, I am not an expert but I can offer my experiences-
Our pooling was the result of uncured (un-cross linked and under cross linked polymers) combined with physical pressure. What happens is the CC slowly continues to crosslink and starts hardening as the physical forces of the posts continues to provide pressure. This builds up a slowly increasing difference in force across the "pool" which acted like putting a putty knife under the pooled mass and pried it up. This force is happening because the shrink rate around the post is not linear. Any bond layer between the CC and substrate (i.e. the artwork bond of the inks to wood) will experience a gradient force over time that shears the bonds. This makes the CC the only thing from preventing the newly formed "chip" from coming completely free, until the CC becomes hardened and brittle enough that the force sheers the CC, the chip is now free to roam, and does.
The solution is to ensure the CC is completely crosslinked before installing the posts, which requires extended curing time, and or a curing accelerator (Some CC we used only cross linked at high temps and required a curing oven) but the main thing that has to occur is the CC under the posts needs to be completely cured prior to putting any pressure on the CC, and second, I would look at the bond strength of the artwork to the bare wood or whatever is on the wood. This can be tested by epoxy gluing popsicle sticks to the printed surface and pulling on the end and measuring the force required to separate it. You will find that screen printed inks and paints tend to have WAY more bond strength than DTS printing does.
The manufacturers don't seem to think solving this issue is a big priority. Yet.

Bublehead, how long does it take the clearcoat to cure and harden so that it doesn't pool? 4 months seems more than sufficient but perhaps not??

Quoted from fooflighter:

Thanks, found it on the top edge pf the playfield
April 21 Build
Jan 21 Playfield[quoted image]

Is it possible that the game is putting out enough heat that the clearcoat becomes malleable again and starts to pool?

1 week later
#8536 2 years ago
#8578 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

You are looking at over 60% chance of your playfield being defective. Number might even be higher, I haven’t spent as much time on it.

Not the best of news, but interesting. What's the confidence interval on that estimate?

#8590 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

That’s a 60% probability of your CE having a defective playfield. Sample size 23 CEs. The 9 CEs that never reported playfield damage were also not asked about it, so some of those could also have unreported damage.
Once again, these were just Collectors Editions.

That small sample gives a pretty large confidence interval (38 to 80%). But I agree the 60% is probably on the low side. Based on the poll in this thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gnrce-playfield-issues it's about 69%.

1 year later
#9085 1 year ago
Quoted from ARTofAWD:

That's exactly what it looks like. If Stern doesn't have a good answer, I'll try to polish it out.

That's what I was thinking, too. If Stern doesn't have any helpful advice, maybe try starting with Novus 1 to see how it polishes. If not, then step up to Novus 2, which has a little more grit. If you aren't seeing any noticeable improvement, then maybe consider Novus 3 but I would use caution with that because Novus 3 is pretty abrasive and could end up making things worse. I have never had a reason to use Novus 3, thankfully.

2 months later
#9170 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

No , on GNR the artwork goes up to the posts but they do remove it around the holes .
I did JINX it though , after posting , someone in the GNR thread said they had some pooling on a late game and removed the post and the artwork came off . Besides that , issues after the first batch very rare .
I took these pictures tonight after almost 1000 plays and everything looks good , even around the scoop .
I tried to get some pictures of the dimpling on the Playfield but they're so small they don't show up .
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Cracks in the clear coat?

Capture2 (resized).PNGCapture2 (resized).PNG
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
9,499
Machine - For Sale
Wood Dale, IL
$ 79.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 65.00
Lighting - Other
Pinball Mod Co.
 
7,998 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Georgetown, KY
From: $ 99.99
Cabinet - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Plastics
Minty's Mods
 
$ 8.00
Cabinet - Decals
Space Coast Pinball
 
€ 50.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
 
$ 11,000.00
From: $ 6,999.00
Pinball Machine
Paradise Distribution
 
$ 285.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
CRCades
 
$ 55.00
Cabinet - Decals
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 51.45
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
$ 26.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
 
$ 259.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 50.00
Playfield - Protection
AC/DC Glass Cover Pre-order!
Duke Pinball
 
$ 55.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Slipstream Mod Shop
 
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
$ 24.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
The MOD Couple
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Los Angeles, CA
From: $ 100.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
$ 79.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
PinGraffix Pinside Shop
 
6,999
Machine - For Sale
Anaheim, CA
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mostater.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/continued-playfield-issues-with-jjp-and-stern?tu=mostater and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.