(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

59 days ago

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  • 2,675 posts
  • 361 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 hours ago by farberstyle
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders


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#116 58 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Yeah I don't expect used items to be in new condition, I also don't buy collector quality pins. If I wanted that level of quality I would buy NIB. When it comes to price and inspection, as a seller or a buyer there is an offer and the seller accepts it or he doesn't. I don't do the whole nickel and dime over every little thing.

I have bought many HUO collector quality pins because there was no guarantee I would get one from the factory when purchasing NIB.

#156 57 days ago

Just canceled my JPLE.

#160 57 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I would to, better wait this one out a bit longer to see how it plays out.

Fix it and I’ll buy the Premium, but I’m not dealing with this shit at these prices.

#234 56 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

There is no way I’m letting this playfield thing stop my pinball fun. I’m unboxing a JP2 tomorrow.

Yeah, good move.

#342 54 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

If it doesn't exceed a certain percentage it IS not a problem.

Except for the poor bastards that are stuck with one.

#349 54 days ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

That is not what I meant.
There is a failure rate when you're building things.
You allready take this into account when pricing things.
So of course if it's defective it has to be replaced or somehow taken care of.
That Money should've been put aside.
About 2% is normal, about 5% failure rate is usually maximum.

I knew what you meant. I intentionally took it out of context.

#653 49 days ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I’m not leaving, just not buying this crap.

And no one could blame you.

I’d hate to be in the position where I’m selling this shit.

#684 48 days ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

Yeah take it out of the box, take the glass off, and test it with a fingernail somewhere hidden. If it is soft contact the manufacturer and ask for advice about how long for it to sit, and any other advice. Sucks but what else can you do if you want NIB?

Don’t be a putz and buy NIB until this issue has been rectified.

#693 48 days ago
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:

I had already purchased a NIB JJP POTCSE before I heard about any problems. After I heard about the problems I checked mine closely and did the fingernail test and all was fine.
But yeah, I guess I got lucky, and I have no plans to buy anything for a long time.
I was mainly trying to say I think the fingernail test is a great way to tell if there are problems.

Sorry, I’m sure you’re right.

I just found out that my Munsters LE has the pooling/rippling and I’m not happy. We also inspected my Munsters Premium, IMLE and BKSOR LE and they were fine.

#776 47 days ago
Quoted from Vinnie:

Went to my local barcade and saw a similar thing: IMDN pooling at most posts(not chipping yet), pooling in one spot on Deadpool, didn't see any issues on Star Wars.
My IMDN chipped around 600 plays and has pooling at about 13 different places. The IMDN at the barcade is over a year old. Mine was manufactured in June. So two machines at least a year apart in manufacturing are having similar problems with the clear. Ironically my newer machine is worse.

Jeez, what do you guys expect for $6,000-$12,500?
These “issues” are all normal and have routinely been cherished by NIB buyers for years. They simply add a charming patina to your new game.

#836 45 days ago

Is anyone moving forward with their 8K-12K JJP purchase?

Does the financial hit that you are going to take should you decide to sell the game bother you much?

#853 45 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

How about moving forward with a Stern JP or any Stern purchase as well for $6k - $9k? Stern games seems just as susceptible to this issue. A variety of Stern titles made over the past 2 years have had the issue as reported as well.

I stated that I’ve canceled my JPLE and that my Munsters LE has pooling. I still have my Munsters Premium which appears flawless at this time.

#972 42 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

This is pretty much my stance as well, especially for a game that has a lot of plays. I guess it all depends on if you willing and capable of doing the swap. I think this well help hold the value. There is going to be no more good deals for routed games, a routed game with a spare playfield is going to cost you. If your just a player and not capable or willing to work on a pin you will be at a disadvantage when it comes to buying. Sellers will have no issue as there are plenty of guys in the hobby more than happy to do the swap.

Most here aren’t willing or capable of doing the swap.

#976 42 days ago
Quoted from Darscot:

There are plenty of people that are and you only need one buyer. These are the very latest released pins, even in a couple years you are going to have a line up of buyers. If I'm the only guy in the line not trying to get $1000 off because it needs a swap, lucky me and lucky seller. I think people underestimate how many people in pinball spend as much time working on them as playing them.
P.S. Whats a swap going to take 20-30 hours, shit I put more than that into a video game and at the end I just feel like a slob that just spend 30 hours sitting on my ass. I would much rather work on a pin and have a dime piece at the end.

I wish I had that kind of time.

#1003 42 days ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Car companies can absorb hundreds of millions in losses....and they have. Pinball companies can not absorb a half a million to a million and continue to be viable.

Then they die, so they should be very careful not to screw up.

#1010 42 days ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Except it's literally not corrected. Anything short of a fixed & assembled machine is not acceptable.

The customer foots the bill for their mistake.

#1230 39 days ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

Found some pooling in my iron maiden, Aug 2018 build date.
Not buying another stern or JJP product till this is fixed.[quoted image]

I have something very similar on IMLE. I’m probably going to sell it to a local at a hit of 2K rather than waiting for a resolution.

#1387 35 days ago
Quoted from NPO:

Over-the-top silly, I know, and that's intentional. Never thought I'd see the day people pay $8K+ for a product, get a PF on the side with the eventual need for it to be swapped out on their less than 30 day old toy, and be ok with it.

Agreed, it’s absolute insanity.

#1408 35 days ago
Quoted from JonCrox:

Any comment from Keith Elwin on this? He must be gutted, knocks JP2 out of the park, looks to be even better than Maiden and then totally out of his control preorders get pulled left right and centre and Stern don't even address the issue.
I'm sure he's thrilled they've quickly pushed the official announcement of the highly anticipated Elvira to paint over the cracks.
Stern should recall and replace all affected tables, sure, shipping and man hours add up but surely this is a critical condition that can't be ignored at this stage?

It will never happen.
This is an industry of back alley handshakes, and clandestine winks and nods. Some folks on the manufacturing side are not what most people would consider honorable.

1 week later
#1708 27 days ago

Yes, but pretty much expected.

#1744 27 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Elvira buyers don’t have to buy them. Anyone buying these pins now with the knowledge that it exists across several pins, and is being bandaided with washers and black circles instead if artwork, is basically asking to be punished.
If people had more resolve they wouldn’t accept it, and vote with their wallet. That’s the only power they have.

I think you’d have to be something of a putz to buy a NIB Stern or JJP at this time.

#1753 27 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Don't stand in front of the blame train... it respects no logic

I believe they are claiming deductive reasoning.

#1861 25 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If you are expecting some sort of blanket admission of guilt and defective products you are F ing dreaming.

Not in this business, baby! Coin-op is the sleaziest of the sleazy.

#2087 22 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Whatever you say Buddy. You’re “not a Stern basher”?
Then why were you so quick to post that all of these things are time bombs, and that the paint is flaking (Which doesn’t appear to be the case) IMMEDIATELY after seeing those pics, without any real information?
I can appreciate that I have an unpopular opinion, and will get downvoted, but you went so far as to downvote my deleted post AFTER I deleted it. You’re so angry, you’re not being objective anymore.
You label me “Pro Stern”, yet all I’ve said is that buyers expecting collector quality playfields have themselves to blame ever since Stern states that play fields are no longer warrantied. That’s not pro-Stern buddy, that’s just recognizing their offering and stating it publicly.
You upvote these idiots who are so quick to jump on the “down with Stern” comments. You guys really do make this the least pinball-friendly site in existence.
I’m all for hawkmoon sharing his pics and relaying his dealings with Stern. It’s good for everyone to know what to expect if they have a similar situation. But what you and many others are doing is more along the lines of slander.
Seriously. Take a stroll over to the JPLE thread. With (I think) 2 exceptions: hawkmoon and a guy with some scratches on his playfield, everyone seems to be whoopin it up, having a blast with their new games.
And yet you and the rest of the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol are in here, telling everyone not to buy new machines cause they’re all defective.
Unfortunately, there are about 20 Pinsiders who share your view and they’re in here downvoting anyone like myself, constantly.
Fortunately, their opinions really don’t matter cause the rest of Pinside is enjoying their games (be it JJP, Stern, Bally, whatever).
I have issues and complaints with Stern. Personally I think that someone over there needs to design a much better auto-launch mech. I’m also annoyed that when I bought my ACDC, it was about 50% less than what I’m paying for a premium, currently. The difference between people like you and people like me is, I understand that currency has a part in that, and that my country charges taxes on the value AFTER currency, AND that Stern has the right to charge whatever the market is willing to pay! In short, I’m not in here screaming bloody murder like a four year old who dropped his cookie, because I try to take the time to understand both sides instead of just “me, me, me”.
There’s nothing wrong with sitting out for a bit and waiting for fewer reports of playfield issues. There appear to be far more than usual on the recent Jurassic Park Pro models. It sucks. There’s no arguing that.
But the ratio of LEs that appear to be fine also deserve to be mentioned. It appears to be back to “normal”.
Then yesterday we see a game with some kinda weird tear/scratch in it, and the Pinball-Pity-Party-Patrol sounds the sirens, with one member saying something as stupid as “Stern had three tries and flunked them all” -because he’s found 3 people with issues! (Not to mention your comments about how you just KNOW that because you can’t see a scratch in the wood, that this is an ongoing, serious issue.)
All of you PPPP members need to shake your heads and try to see things objectively. Not from the “pro Stern” stance -but not from the usual: “1 guy had a problem... let’s all post numerous memes about how bad Sterns QC is! DOWN WITH STERN! DOWN WITH STERN!”
Seriously. As I’ve always said, the sharing of ACCURATE information is the tool, that could make Pinside a great place.
The spreading of rumours/accusations, founded on little/no information, prevents this from being a great place.
Warranties are easy to figure out. Read it before you buy a game. Have realistic expectations before laying down your money is pretty much what I’ve said all along.
FYI: last night I decided to go in 50/50 with a buddy for a JPLE. So yeah, I have “skin in the game”.

You bought half a machine?

#2132 21 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

I posted this in the JP2 thread, but thought it might help some people here:
Whenever I buy a new Stern that has a metal apron, first thing I do is take the apron out and put a layer of mylar under it. When I put it back in, I try not to over tighten. Recently I got a 3D printer and decided to go the extra mile to protect my BKLE by making small u-channels to snap on the bottom of the apron where it meets the playfield. That was before all this clear coat stuff came up, so I'm glad I did. If you want the file to print yourself shoot me a PM. Otherwise I suppose I could make a run or two if there is demand...[quoted image][quoted image]

That’s a really good idea.

#2155 20 days ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I was aiming for something in the middle, (more neutral) since I also spend thousands of dollars on new games, but I'll take that description if the only other options is "a pitchfork carrying member of the Pinball Pity-Party Patrol".
God forbid anyone on Pinside would view Stern from anything less-than the absolute most negative point of view:
"Stern sent you a bottle of clearcoat? That MUST mean that it's their final resolution, and they don't care about you. There's NO WAY that the issue might also be travelling up to the second support tier for review." (Let's not clarify, just assume. It fits our agenda)
"a JPLE, recently unboxed, is using the old artwork under the slings again? That MUST mean that Stern has used the old defective playfields and everything will fall apart. There's NO WAY that they've fixed anything. I know you didn't see any issues, but I maintain my negativity by declaring that issues WILL CERTAINLY arise in the future."
Question: how many Pinsiders does it take to change a playfield?
Answer: 21. 1 to contact Stern and make the swap. 20 more to complain about it online.
(Flamesuit on)

LOL, give it up kid.

#2272 13 days ago
Quoted from Halfwasted:

It is really sad that Stern leaves us all guessing about playfields. I use others as guinea pigs to see if a game with have pooling and chipping issues.
Want a JP, but Stern avoidance makes me nervous. They know it is an issue. They put washers under the posts on purpose, cause they know there is an issue.
It is hard for me to buy a pin when U have little faith in the transparency of the company..
At least Jersey Jack stated and acknowledged the issue. Stern thinks avoidance is the best. Sad cause I think their games are really interesting right now, but I can't blow my hard earned cash on a gamble, I want a quality product.

Buy HUO that is at least 2 years old.

#2317 12 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You’re not alone, im going on 2 months without a response. I called my distributor yesterday to have them follow up on my IMDN Premium. I got two games that i want to buy right now (JP and Elvira 3) but im not buying anything until i see what they are going to do about my IMDN game. All of this pooling and chipping has ruined the NIB experience for me.

It was much easier and less painful for me to just sell my IMLE.

#2341 11 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Restoring games is kind of fun too.
Should be big business again on high end games with trashed playfields in a few short years.

Or weeks.

#2559 8 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I'd bet the farm the only reason any progress on the clear coat debacle is happening is due to everyone on this site and the word spreading. It's a sad day in hell when manufacturers have to take it in the financial keister in order to do the right thing instead of just doing it because it's the right thing to do.

True, but don’t forget that there is more slime in the pinball industry than the used car business.

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