(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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  • 704 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 63 days ago by PinMonk
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#8275 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I feel much more confident in Stern playfield quality right now over JJP. Are Stern playfields 100% perfect with every single one? No, but they at least fixed the playfield pooling / chipping issue by removing artwork around all posts. Reports of chipping / pooling on the latest Sterns is pretty much at 0.
Unfortunately JJP seems to have done nothing to resolve the issue and their only "fix" is applying washers, a fix that is a reminder that they are continuing to ship games with a known manufacturer defect.
Another $12,500 GNR CE was just reported as having pooling / chipping...
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

That’s quite the damage for that area. It’s not like the ball hits that post hard

18
#8290 2 years ago

It’s important to bitch and moan about major issues like this. It’s the only way these things will get fixed. Maybe people seeing these posts will result in a material drop in sales for JJP and they will be forced to make things right going forward. Or maybe they care about their reputation. Not sure what drives them. But having a fanboy attitude and dismissing everything as “it is what it is” will not entice them to remedy the situation.

A line needs to be drawn somewhere and these playfield issues definitely cross that line. Not sure what could be worse. At least the circuit boards are easily swappable if they need replacement. Squeaky wheels always get the grease. Cancel culture proves that

12
#8308 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Correct. A spare playfield is a $1000 part, and the people who got them were for the most part ungrateful about it. "Now what???" "I have NOT been made whole" etc. I wouldn't send replacement either after that.

They should send a populated playfield and pay for you to ship your populated playfield back. That would be the right thing to do

10
#8356 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

What difference does that make? I think it's perfectly fair to be critical of how buyers of these games are handling issues. How does it look to JJP when they ship out a replacement pf that is never installed? The game is then sold for as much or more than what the buyer paid for it with or without extra pf. I have yet to see any game with pf issues being sold with any significant discounted. Nothing even remotely close to cost of new pf. Again, how does that look to the manufacturers? Are these not fair questions?

Receiving an unpopulated playfield is basically an indirect way of them sending you a check for your headaches. 95% of people are not capable of installing a new playfield. Their best option is to hang it on their wall or sell it. JJP should send a populated playfield and require that you send your damaged, populated playfield back. That would be the right thing to do.

It also doesn’t matter if these games are being sold privately for a profit, even when there is playfield damage. The buyer has the option of buying it knowing what condition it’s in. When buying new you don’t expect the playfield to literally tear within a month of owning it. You expect the game to be in excellent condition for x number of years with proper care. And that doesn’t mean having to install 30 plastic washers everywhere

#8368 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

In the GNR owners thread there's another pooling / chipping report from a game with a 4/21 build date...That build date more then likely means any newly built game could have a playfield issue.

I have a 4/21 build (LE) and I have pooling

#8371 2 years ago
Quoted from Mattyk:

I have a 4/21 build (LE) and I have pooling

#8424 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

If we don’t hear anything from JJP soon, I will have no choice but to start complying a list of affected customers to present to lawyer. Time to take action, talking about it is over. JJP knows this is an issues they are not taking care of it. They disrespected customers with sending them washers. They don’t care, so time to make them care. Last call JJP. And before anyone complains lawyers end up with millions and we get a $50 check. A $50 check and accountability from JJP is worth a lot more than a bag of washers and continued screwing of customers. I am a reasonable person and will watch for a JJP response. If I don’t hear anything soon, then I will go ahead. No more pounding sand.

Do you have any pics of the damage on your game that you can share? I assume you received it, right?

#8481 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

zaphX hey Derek, I saw the last picture you posted and to me it kind of looks like the guitar neck is starting to crack and chip, is this the case or am I seeing things? Let me know. Also you opinion and solutions are valid and welcomed. We are all here to share ideas and give each other’s tips and share what works. If your guitar is starting to chip, any resolution?

Do you have any issue with your game that you can share?

#8579 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

I’m a stats guy and we do something called experimental probability, where we take actual real life numbers and attach a probability to that collected data. Some might say this is blown out of proportion because pinside is a small sliver or small sample of the total pinball community. True. Pinside is a small sliver. However, with that sample size we can still paint a big picture and calculate the probability of these machines having these playfield defects. I don’t take polls seriously because those can be manipulated one way or another. So what I did was visit the GnR CE owners thread and everytime a user posted a picture of their machine “evidence”, I knew they owned a CE. So then I would click on said users name and more often then not, they would be posting on threads like this complaining about chipping and pooling. The probability of your machine having a defective playfield is Very Likely. Some don’t even know it. I just saw two different people posting innocent pictures of their machine in GnR thread and both people had pooling that other users pointed out. I also factor in a streamer who doesn’t post on here but just received his GnR a few weeks ago and already chipping. You are looking at over 60% chance of your playfield being defective. Number might even be higher, I haven’t spent as much time on it. Just shocked. JJP seems to be ignoring that fact through their communication and saying everything is fine. When they should be fixing the root cause. Instead they are banking on people bending over. Other apologists will say the game can still be played even if it’s down to the bare wood. To which I argue, you can purchase a new car and all that rust that appears in the first month it a okay because you can still drive, even if the truck rusts completely out in a year it’s still drivable. Overall, we continue to collect data, quantitive and qualitative as we move forward. JJP still has time to make things right. But clock is ticking.

Something doesn’t really add up with you. 3 months ago you are on a forum saying your are a total newbie when it comes to owning a pinball machine and don’t know how to take the backglass off to change batteries.

It doesn’t seem like you even own GNR as you have not complained about your game or posted any pics.

You mentioned that you would get a referral fee for starting a class action lawsuit. So what’s your deal? Are you just trying to make a buck and start trouble with JJP or do you actually have the game with playfield damage. Based on when you said you put a deposit down, my stats say you have no game

#8585 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

Yes this has been a 3 month long ploy to take down JJP and collect $500 finders fee. You figured me out! Nothing gets past you.

I figured as much. You’re just in it for the money. You have no game

#8587 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:

Stay on topic my friend. Attempting to make a conspiracy theory of everything seems to be common now a days and I don’t really get it. Snap out of that logic. You have a defective playfield, as do many in this thread including myself. Let’s stay focused on that. Seems like you spent a lot of time reading my history (for some reason) and yet you can’t see I was a day one order of a GnR machine? I believe I posted that 4 months ago when they raised the price an extra $1000. You support your logic with a “newbie” can’t possibly purchase a NIB pinball. Somehow you think this was a 7 month long ploy to make $500, all the while I’m taking my sweet sweet time and allowing JJP to make their customers whole again. Your conspiracy theory is not adding up....like at all.
Now back to the topic at hand. I took a peak at the CE owners thread and only stopped at pictures of people that received their machine and then clicked on their profile to see if they posted on playfield threads. From my information 14 users reported playfield damage and 9 did not. The 9 people didn’t post much after that in any other forum.
That’s a 60% probability of your CE having a defective playfield. Sample size 23 CEs. The 9 CEs that never reported playfield damage were also not asked about it, so some of those could also have unreported damage.
Once again, these were just Collectors Editions.

I don’t believe you. Let someone that actually owns the game decide if they want to bring a lawsuit. You’re just a vulture

#8601 2 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

Does he have to own a GNR to come up with some statistics of bad playfields?

Not at all. I love statistics and i agree with him that a super majority of owners will have an issue. I was commenting on his pursuit to start a class action lawsuit. That should be left for owners to decide.

#8653 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

You don’t feel quoting the words “ fine please leave” as snark? As if the customer complaining is a pest? Interesting……

I’m getting confused. Whoever made the first snarky comment raise your hand

1 week later
#8855 2 years ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

I would like some feedback from the group. Is this normal? I have pooling around posts and art cracking near the backstage. Regarding this photo I was told:
"This needs to be tightened down good, otherwise the upper flipper shot will push the ball rail back, causing the right orbit shot not to go to the left flipper."
My problem with this is if I run my finger around it I can feel it starting to pool around this item in the back, which means it will pool further and possibly crack correct?
[quoted image]

Mine looked exactly like yours. I used the iron to smooth out the pooling on those two areas. I added plastic washers to both. I actually also used a metal washer on top of the plastic washer for the ball guide because too much tightening will crack the plastic washer.

3 weeks later
-5
#8980 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

You mean Band Aid kit? A "fix" would be new printer with better art adherence, no art under posts and clear that doesn't pool.

Nobody that has added the washers as preventative maintenance has had a playfield issue. To me that is a fix

#8982 2 years ago
Quoted from GeekedOnPinball:

Not sure we can declare this as a fix for at least a while, the artwork separating from the playfield is particularly troubling on GnR, doesn't that then mean you could not strip and re-clear these without problems?

We won’t have that answer for a very long time

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