(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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#2401 4 years ago

Ok, I have a theory on this clearcoat issue ( hold your punches), a few years ago I repaired the sanctum area on my shadow. I had read a few instructional posts and went at it, I did the repair per all expert advice, I then clearcoated with a spray can of Krylon or something similar I bought from The Home Depot...it took only about 20 plays or so for the area above the magnet to give in a bit and form a slight divot, which kept the ball from rolling into the sanctum. Another Pinsider did the same repair as me (used my instructions) but used automotive clearcoat and he didn't have any issues hundreds of plays later. So my theory is that someone is using cheap clearcoat that is not in the same league as the automotive clear such as Spray Max 2k stuff. This is just my hunch, I have no proof. I don't think the environmental reformulation has anything to do with that. I just think it's lower grade stuff.

#2410 4 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

The guitar explanation someone gave sounds the most plausible/similar to me.

Yes, the other post talks about thinner coats vs heavy coats which could be also be an issue but there are some posts on the automotive spray 2k thread showing them putting on a thick coat and still getting good results. This issue may very well be a multifaceted one. Where clear quality, cure time and digital printing may all be culpable.

#2461 4 years ago
Quoted from playernumber4:

Well, so many of these theories on the playfield issues do have a basis to them no doubt. But one that I have not seen come up yet is the proper preparation of the playfield itself before any material is applied. As all of us know these playfields are a dry wood surface that is absorbent before being painted/inked or whatever. But its quite possible that somewhere before artwork is applied some type of oil contamination could be happening. Maybe its from a machine that moves them down a line somewhere, maybe its just a light spray from a hydraulic cylinder somewhere along the line before it gets to the art work being applied. But if it is a thin mild mist from another part of the process it would be easily absorbed and would not show on a visual inspection. This possibility should be looking into by the manufacturer. Its costing them plenty of money and sales to ignore the possibility of contamination.

Well, we know that Mirco made pfs without any issues before these incidents so unless he changed the program on his machine line I would say he changed the clearcoat mixture...there is a video where he says he's now using his own proprietary clearcoat formula. So I'm going with occam's razor principle on this one till we get a definitive answer.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wonka-le-sling-post-chipping-/page/32#post-5180658

1 year later
#6899 3 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Go back to printing playfields the old fashioned way this digital crap is a huge factor with these problems.
Sterns big enough to bring that shit in house and JJPs got deep enough pockets to do the same.

I agree, the first step is to find out which part is failing...is it the paint or the clear? So far these guys are just ignoring the problem, or they replace a few bad pfs and get back to business as usual. In any case, I'm starting to lean in your direction, I think it's the digital printing that maybe the underlying issues here. We've had Stern pfs with issues, we've had JJP/Mirco pfs with the same issue, they use different clear formulation so it's logical to assume is the art paint is not adhering to the wood properly regardless of what kind of clear they spray on it.

#7010 3 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but does mirco's repro playfields have the pooling problem or is it just the new games? Are the repro playfields silk screened and the new ones digital printed? I don't know, but I am really starting to be a believer in the "its the printing thats going bad" vs a problem with the clear coat. If the printing isn't adhering properly, the clear won't stand a chance. Maybe the clear and the ink don't play nice together? I know this has been talked about, but I'm just saying its a good theory. Maybe all this bitching about the clear coat, and we should be bitching about the ink instead. I just want to know if the repro playfields are seeing the same problems or not.

It could also be a combination of issues, if you look at the pics the paint is coming off with the clear, which may indicate bad adhesion of paint to the wood but if the clear is pooling this could mean the clearcoat is not fully hardened yet. So it's a little confusing I know....but to address the pooling the clear needs to be reformulated or cured more. We don't know how long Mirco lets the pfs rest before shipping them out.....also how many times does he go over them. 2x or 4x? or does he do one heavy coat and one light coat....etc. Either way, he needs to investigate this and retool his process. This is something preventable and unlike dimpling we can all agree this is not normal.

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