(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern


By f3honda4me

89 days ago



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#243 85 days ago

If this is a case of the new clears curing more slowly, is there any way to make them cure fully once they are set up in your home?

Maybe leave the game on 24x7 to keep the internal temperature up? Open the game and blow a fan indirectly over it? Put it out in a hot garage in Florida? Blow a space heater under the game?

#247 85 days ago
Quoted from Oaken:

Damage is already done before it gets in your hands.

Yes and no. If there is some way to complete the curing process quickly and completely, maybe the damage will be not get worse. People have reported that the clear seems to be still soft.

#301 84 days ago

Any word on the new run of GoT that Stern just did?

1 week later
#781 77 days ago

No chipping here, but my BKSOR LE has some of the pooling of clear around the posts. Shows up as a ripple around the posts. Not bad compared to the Wonka, JJPPOTC and JP2 games as I've seen posted and it is only on a handful of post and not on others. The left slings have no issues but the right sling has the worst pooling. Go figure. See picture below. I've contacted my distributor and sent a bunch of detailed pictures. Basically the clear has not fully cured. It's soft. I went ahead and put clear washers underneath the two worst of the posts at the right sling. The clear is definitely soft there. Just putting a clear washer under helped to flatten the clear. This stuff should be hard as hell at this point, so there is something wrong with the curing for sure.
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#793 77 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

it is cured - it was sprayed many months ago. The formula they used is not resulting in a stiff finish resistant to compression like we are used to.
Cure is not the same thing as 'hard'. Cure means the chemical reaction has finished and the product is now stable.

Not sure why you are splitting hairs here, but this is not fully cured. If it was fully cured it would have memory and spring back after you push it flat with the washer. Sure it is softer than we are used to but it is also not fully cured - at least in the spots where it is pooled and thicker. The areas on the SAME PLAYFIELD that are have thinner clear (not pooled) are hard enough that the clear is not dented when you remove the posts. The thicker areas are soft and dented. Unless the formula of the clear somehow changed for two posts that are 4 inches apart, the problem definitely has something to do with curing of thicker material. Whether the chemical reaction is done or not, it is not cured...

#808 76 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Elasticity is a separate property from hardness. You squeeze putty fine.. it doesn't mean it springs back because its soft.

The clear wasn't thicker there - what you see now is material that has been displaced and wrinkling. That's why it's popping like a blister.. the material is separating from the substrate below.

No

Not going to argue with you except to say you are wrong on all points. My points all came from the careful observation of the game sitting right in front of me.

#1043 72 days ago

Would be nice to know what is going on behind the scenes. With the playfields being bought by outside suppliers rather than being made and clearcoated in house, this problem really should be made right by the playfield suppliers themselves. If the playfields do not meet the specifications put forth by JJP when they purchased them, then there is certainly a case. Would be interesting to know if Mirco or whoever made and clearcoated these defective playfields agreed to supply replacement playfields and JJP is simply handing them out?

#1107 71 days ago

I was going to start buy more EMs, because of all of this cost cutting talk on NIBs. But then I remembered those cheap SOBs at Gottlieb switched from chromed metal posts to cheap white plastic posts in the mid-60s. Good thing Pinside wasn't around then. The nerve of them.

#1150 70 days ago
Quoted from snaroff:

The QA process would be fascinating for Stern to speak about.

With them switching to water based clear, this is more of a QE failure than a QA issue. QE needs to fix this and create new QA processes to detect issues before the playfields are populated.

This does kind of remind me of the RoHS cluster F that happened 15 years ago. The new environmentally friendly lead free solder promised to be just as good as the old stuff, but soon every new TV or stereo I bought was failing within a year or two. Previously TVs and receivers were reliable as hell for many years. I bought a Sony AVR in 2004 along with a 32 inch TV. Both of them were nothing but trouble. Every time something would fail, I'd open it up and flow some leaded solder onto components until it started working again. One thing for sure, Sony never had a mea culpa or gave me new boards to replace the failed boards. ASUS never gave me new motherboards to replace the ones with bad capacitors either. Eventually RoHS worked out fine, but initially it sure filled a lot of landfills with electronics. I suspect that playfield manufacturers are scrambling right now to find what works and purge supplies of the clear that doesn't work.

Personally I would be happy with Stern selling me a new playfield at their cost because all I have is pooling and it is not bad at all. They should send corrected playfields for free in more extreme cases that include cracking.

2 weeks later
#2131 51 days ago

I posted this in the JP2 thread, but thought it might help some people here:

Whenever I buy a new Stern that has a metal apron, first thing I do is take the apron out and put a layer of mylar under it. When I put it back in, I try not to over tighten. Recently I got a 3D printer and decided to go the extra mile to protect my BKLE by making small u-channels to snap on the bottom of the apron where it meets the playfield. That was before all this clear coat stuff came up, so I'm glad I did. If you want the file to print yourself shoot me a PM. Otherwise I suppose I could make a run or two if there is demand...

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#2134 51 days ago
Quoted from Faustria:

That's just going to make the apron effectively tighter and dig harder over a larger area

You tighten it from below with a nut. You can make it as tight or loose as you want. Spreading the force over a larger, flatter area will make it dig in less. Win win.

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