Boerne, TX
Quoted from underlord:Super Chexx are fun as fuck. Love those things!
Can't play em by yourself Rick. 
(Topic ID: 249870)
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Stern, 2019
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Quoted from underlord:I can and I will! BWAAHAHA!
You got some long arms on that Super Chexx then. LOL........
Quoted from PW79:Pinsiders can’t really answer that. We can only speculate.
Contact Stern & ask if they solved the problem &/or the resolution if you’re affected
If you can live with a defective PF then get your LE
If you cannot live with a defective PF then cancel your LE
That’s just my take on things. I’m far from an expert.
And what is your definition of "defective" people
Freaking out? Get a Golden Tee right Curley! LOL
Quoted from PW79:Pooling is a defect.
That reminds me... the GB fiasco
Errbody had ghosted inserts. You said F it and bought a GB saying all would be well. I said several times you were crazy & should wait.
Then IIRC your GB started ghosting.
So as much as I like you Ice, I’m not going to ask you for advice on QC issues. I value your opinion of a game & such but you’re irrational AF my brother.
What happened with you GB? It ghosted right? Was it resolved?
And I think y’all should buy a Golden Tee regardless of Stern QC. Especially you Ice. Let’s GT it up mang!
I have two very "minor ghosting inserts" on my GB. Two of the tiny ones.
I haven't played it in quite a while because i keep waiting on the F ing code update!!!! That's my biggest problem with GB.
But I'm kind of rationally "irrational" which makes the most sense
I'd have to practice about a year or so at least on Golden Tee to jump into your level . LOL
Do you remember KPG? He had a F ed up chipped PF beyond belief. Not "pooling". Not something i stress about.
Quoted from Quadrat:I have a Big Buck World and it gets a lot of play by my friends. But be warned crazy heavy cab.
Any chipping or ghosting on the cab?
1 week later
There are a lot of putz’s like myself that just bought a JPLE and ElviraLE
Didn’t take long for 400 LEs to be sold
I’ve bought several Stern pins over the years and despite the occasional mishap like the BM66 turntable I’ve been really happy and satisfied with what I’ve gotten
I guess people like myself believe the issue is in the past or not enough of one to make a difference
Those are the outright facts when LEs sell through like they did
Quoted from Tranquilize:And there’s plenty of evidence of cost cutting at stern. Power source, brackets, dmds, coil stops and metal parts in general, lockdown bar, knocker, service posts, wet wood, bare playfields... why on earth would they attempt to save money on the clear coat and art? Some ppl and their illogical assumptions, I tell ya.
I know this is a rip JJP and Stern thread but brackets are back on my Munsters and the overall quality feels MUCH better than IMDN. Weighs a good 40 pounds more. 
Cost savings on dmd? I’m good with it, I’ll take the LCD all day every day
Service posts? Really? Not on my games
As for the pf’s it makes sense for Stern to bring that in house to control the production and efficiency.
Call me an optimist but Stern knows they have to fix and get the pf issue right, just like JJP, chipping isn’t acceptable
Quoted from Tranquilize:I was referring to the crap led dmds that were misaligned and had squares that would burn out. Yes, brackets and service rails are back, but the history shows that they cost cut to below bottom and add back. It’s a common business practice, but that doesn’t mean we need to like it. There is clear evidence of cost cutting, so it’s not that much of a stretch to hypothesize that they attempted to cost cut pretty much the last thing they could.
I don’t give a shit about brands; I just care about quality for dollar spent. I’m not bashing stern. I’m questioning the quality of their current products, and, to clarify, I’m using INDUCTIVE reasoning, which means that evidence supports that the conclusion (or thesis) is likely to be true. It is not absolute.
They haven’t cut costs on artwork and hiring great artists in Franchi, Yeti and Freres. That speaks for itself
How about the cost of Elwin and other coders and talent hired to do animations?
The overall overhead has gone UP substantially since they moved into the new production facility. Spending more $$$, not cutting costs
If the “current quality” of JPLE and ElviraLE is as good as my Munsters then I’ll be more than happy
Bottom line, a whole lot of buyers agree with me. What conclusions can we draw from that? 
And btw, I was correcting Flynn, as he loves to do to everybody else, on his statement re deductive reasoning leads to hypothesis. Not. Lol
Quoted from underlord:If there’s hope with you Ice, there’s hope for us all. At least you’re still buying man!
If somebody doesn’t buy Rick then we all F ed!
Consider it taking one for the team?
Quoted from JWP72:A claim was submitted to Stern last week...we'll see what happens...
I haven't been following all of this closely until recently. When you submit the claim what is it that you are asking Stern to do? Give you a new PF? I'm just curious.
Quoted from JWP72:Not sure. I submitted through my distributor. I just want Stern to know about it more than anything so they can fix it.
Good answer
And i wouldn't worry about your first Nib pinball purchase with the pictures you are showing. You are in a HUO environment. You'll be fine, enjoy your new game!
Who is gonna organize the attack on Stern at expo and demand answers from them on the spot? Or will it be the usual ass kissing contest?
Need to hammer away like this thread until they cave!
Tie yourselves together in a human blockade and block off the exits until we get some info!
Quoted from Manic:I've never had a post do that to me in 22 years... badly placed or not.
Me either, no chips on any of my pf’s. Maybe I’m not playing them enough 
The GB run had some bad ones. Remember KPG?
Quoted from Jason_Jehosaphat:Report on JP2LE Playfield on Location:
Just thought I would post what I see re: the clearcoat on the one JP2LE on location in my region. I'm lucky enough that it's just a mile away at the wonderful Tilt Pinball Bar.
So, I see...
1. A much thinner layer of clear, but I *don't* see any rough areas from insufficient coverage - the shooter lane, for instance.
2. A ring in the graphics surrounding the bases of various posts.
3. Plenty of typical dimpling, in particular around the truck toy - and this game was *just* installed. I saw it after three days of action, so it may have had 150 plays on it, tops.
If I had to deduce Stern's fix based on what I see, I would say they have *not* changed their playfield vendor, but instead have simply asked them to apply less clear. I can only guess if the clear being applied is truly a new formulation, but it seems plausible that it's same OSHA-compliant water-based clear that first appeared on IMDN playfields eighteen months ago. My sincere hope was that Stern would be pressured into making real/permanent changes to their playfields with respect to hardness/durability, but I see no evidence of that in this example at least. I do see a beautiful JP2LE though. Wow!
Great to hear a beautiful JPLE
I think Stern will take care of the chipped pf’s like they have in the past, eventually, and then everything else is “what’s done is done”
I’m sure they have already factored into the calculus that they have lost a certain % of customers for good that aren’t happy for various reasons
Certainly not ideal for them as the pf saga plays itself out but they need to focus on getting it right going forward
If you are expecting some sort of blanket admission of guilt and defective products you are F ing dreaming.
Quoted from Mike_J:Not in this business, baby! Coin-op is the sleaziest of the sleazy.
Hey that gives me an idea. To bring back pinball in a huge way Stern should figure out how to put a coin pusher mech in each game that drops quarters for hitting certain shots or scores!
Put the coin pusher in the back box and watch men, women and children go nuts. Lol
Boom boom, location pinball is back baby
1 week later
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Thats why first thing I do is cover the inlane.
Not a fan of playfield protectors but love these.[quoted image]
Those are pretty handy. Might have to try one
I’ve been using Thin self adhesive felt in the Eject area from Hobby Lobby
Less than a buck a sheet. Works great on most games
Quoted from GamerRick:I would state quite confidently that anyone who had a bubbling playfield upon delivery or within a few plays would be able to successfully win a lawsuit under the UCC. However, you’re not entitled to recover attorneys fees so you would have to pay the attorney to pursue the case, and that could cost as much as the machine.
What amount of damages one would seek? What lawyer in his right mind would take on such a lawsuit? Or a buyer filing suit and paying any lawyer to take the case on an hourly basis with no chance at recovery of legal fees?
I would think you also have to prove that the defect was "material" and the manufacturer was not in "substantial performance" with delivery of the finished product.
Bottom line, the idea that the legal system would solve this issue to the buyer's satisfaction is crazy! I get the fantasyland ideas and outrage but not gonna happen.
I hope Stern steps up and fixes your issues Who Dey, the real recourse is people "voting with their wallets".
Quoted from GamerRick:For the goods to conform to the contract they must be suitable for the intended purpose - here at a minimum that would be a playfield that does not bubble and chip. That would be per se evidence of a manufacturing defect and all that you would need to win the case.
Have to disagree with that assessment. It's certainly "suitable for the intended purpose" and Stern would likely win the "substantial performance" argument.
Quoted from GamerRick:Absolutely not the way the term would be defined in the case. Again, I’m not recommending everybody sue. I was merely answering questions and correcting incorrect statements about warranty. I think there’s zero chance they would win the case. If it’s defective it’s automatically non-conforming. Here the defect goes to the heart of your machine, your playfield. You are also forgetting that if there’s these issues present they are guaranteed to get worse and that is patently obvious at the time these issues arise. No offense, but I trust my legal judgment over yours.
Well, no offense either, but i trust my legal judgment over yours. Stern would have many defenses it could raise such as the "defect" being "immaterial" and they have "substantially complied" with the bargain. It's not the slam dunk you represent it to be and everyone's pf issue is different in degree of "defect", thus every case is different.
In addition, even though some don't like it and i wouldn't either, curing a "chipping defect" in a PF could be arguably satisfied legally by sending the buyer a little bottle of clear to paste over the chip.
Again, what are the damages? Arguing about it is irrelevant because no one will ever sue Stern over this issue. If you have a totally F ed up chipping PF that prevents you from enjoying the product as intended then that individual would have a case and even then its crazy to think it would go to litigation.
Stern has proven many times before in those instances, such as GB, they have "cured the defect" with replacement of a populated PF if warranted, other cases might not warrant it.
Quoted from MK6PIN:This is huge news!!!! thanks for sharing...has JJP done this once yet for POTC owners (hoping so)? Truly curious, as I just drop in now and then...might have missed it.
The thread is about Stern AND JJP, correct?
Awesome news for the Hawk! A just outcome. Way to go Hawk.
Quoted from GamerRick:There’s no way you’re going to ever convince me that a bottle of epoxy or putty is going to satisfactorily fix a $10,000 machine, which is not just a functional mechanical device put a piece of art, a major piece of furniture, and it is universally accepted that people want a playfield in good condition.
You are mixing up "curing a defect" that is and would be "legally acceptable" with what buyers here are upset about and deem unsatisfactory and will impact their future buying decisions.
I agree with you and many others that Stern, JJP and all manufacturers need to get the PF issues resolved and take care of people like Hawk and Who Dey who have significant issues.
Are you a lawyer? I am. There is no UCC claim here. No breach of "implied warranty of merchantability" or "fitness for a particular purpose", etc.
If anything, i might go after a breach of contract claim under some "promissory estoppel" argument. I relied on your promise to deliver a game to my satisfaction and then to my detriment because i could have purchased Spooky Alice Cooper instead with those funds. Or try to prove some kind of fraud, actual or constructive. All of which is absolutely ridiculous!
Anyhow, here's hoping people can get resolution via the way Hawk did it. The legal theories are impractical and ridiculous.
Now i will go out and finish setting up my JPLE!
Quoted from GamerRick:No sir, I am not mixing anything at all. Didn’t you read my prior post? I stated I’ve been practicing law for 25 years. I’ve been a trial attorney from day one. I’ve also litigated UCC issues. I definitely know what I’m talking about. What is your area of practice? I come up against lawyers all the time that don’t know what they’re doing so it’s not inconceivable that you could be a great guy but not a good lawyer. No offense again. How you can be a lawyer and not understand that the UCC applies is beyond me. The implied warranty of merchantability only bolsters my argument. That warranty is implied in the sale of all goods regardless of what the written contract states. The implied warranty of merchantability requires that the goods conform to what the buyer expects to receive under the contract. The law is very complex so I can’t boil everything down to a forum post. We are talking here about whether the goods conform to the contract and under the definitions used in the Uniform Commercial Code as well as the caselaw on these issues a playfield that’s chipping and cracking and bubbling does not conform. If you can find a legal definition in the Uniform Commercial Code that backs up your definition of what is conforming, I’ll be happy to continue this conversation - until then thank you for your opinion but I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said.
That is also not the proper definition of promissory estoppel. Promissory estoppel is merely requiring a person making a promise to honor that promise as a contract even if no consideration is received (consideration being the key requirement of any contract for enforceability) as long as the other party reasonably relied on the promise to their detriment.
I've also been an attorney for the last 25 years as well and a CPA for 31 years. So yes my area of specialty is tax and estate planning and "real life".
That said, no offense, but i can't imagine ANY lawyer of any experience, no matter how desperate, would take on ANY case against Stern whether it be UCC, breach of contract or otherwise over these issues, for all of the reasons previously discussed. As for "promissory estoppel", that is exactly what i said it means and know it means.
As to "conformance", i'd love to see you try and argue that the product does not allow someone to use it for the purpose it was intended for in its current state. If the pinball machine comes without a PF then you would have a case!
In my opinion, you are WAY off base and still have never answered the issue of "damages" you would seek. If i were representing Stern it would be game over legally with the bottle of clear remedy. "Chipping" and "pooling" are two different issues.
When i say you are "mixing things up" you are clearly pointing out what you, me and others think is right and what Stern or JJP SHOULD do to remedy the situation from a business standpoint. From a LEGAL standpoint, let's go to court and argue the issue of whether or not the "bottle of clear" is an adequate remedy to "cure the defect". It's laughable.
Seriously, as a 25 year lawyer you clearly understand the practicality or lack thereof of suing Stern over this?
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:Welcome to the arena, in what should be a awesome bout between 2 lawyers this is sure to get interesting.
In one corner we have GamerRick, and in the other corner we have iceman44.
ding, ding...ok, the bell has rung now and we will read a awesome show of wits.And I really hope you guys don't get mad at me and I hope I do not get moderated for something. I don't feel real good myself right now, and I am just trying to have some laughs to help with my pains.
Sometimes you gotta laugh to keep from crying Johnny!
I just don't see the point of riling people up and getting hopes up with litigation pitchforks when its 100% NEVER gonna happen.
Happy to provide you guys some entertainment! It's a debate and what lawyers do but of course i'm right here.
When lawyers get involved, i think most people would agree, the only ones that win are the lawyers! 
Quoted from zaphX:A waste of billable hours?
"A lawyer dies and goes to Heaven. "There must be some mistake," the lawyer argues. "I'm too young to die. I'm only 55." "Fifty-five?" says Saint Peter. "No, according to our calculations, you're 82." "How'd you get that?" the lawyer asks. Answers St. Peter, "We added up your time sheets."
Quoted from Roostking:Did you just admit that lawyers generally lie about billable hours, to the detriment of their clients. Alrighty then!
You are kidding right? LOL.
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I have a awesome lawyer, I consider him a best friend. He has been awesome through the years. Pricey yes, but worth it hell yes.
I know what you are talking about with the only lawyers really win. But in my cases 200.00 to Carl got me back 10k a internet crook on ebay took from me, and 1600.00 to Carl got my Mom back her 80k policy on Dad that State Farm was trying to bring technical crap on her after he passed.
I love my lawyer.
And actually the only people I personally know that hates lawyers are the ones that went through a divorce and one had a better lawyer than the other.
I have been very entertained reading you guys go back and forth. Reminds me of Carl and the stuff he comes up with.
I wish everyone the best, and I hope Stern and JJP makes everyone whole again without any legal stuff required.
Finding a lawyer you can trust, especially a litigator, is HUGE. It's great that you have a lawyer friend to count on who won't screw you over with hourly billing.
Divorce is great for lawyers, plaintiff and defense, and an easy area for young lawyers to get involved in. So is criminal law. Neither of which I'd ever do for obvious reasons.
I don't do "billable hours" since my CPA days at Ernst & Young in the 80's when i was forced to do it. Big accounting firm, as bad as lawyers on the billing sheets.
My clients love me , i save them money, help game plan their lives from an integrated legal, tax and financial standpoint and give them "peace of mind" .
The older you get you sweat the small stuff less and less. Life is WAY too short.
Quoted from V4Vendetta:so are you a lawyer or accountant??
I'm actually both and a registered investment adviser RIA under the SEC and fiduciary duty rule. That's how i make my living, charging a fixed fee to manage assets as a financial adviser, lower than most every adviser i might add, while integrating estate planning and tax advice for my clients at no additional cost. I have about $350 million of assets under mgt., 1200 accounts or so with TD Ameritrade as custodian.
And i love what i do in helping people. I doubt i'll ever really retire from doing that OR the pinball hobby!
Back to discussing PF issues and i hope JJP and Stern finally have this shit figured out.
Quoted from GamerRick:Your experience is in tax and estate planning? So you have zero experience in commercial litigation is that correct? I have 25 years experience in commercial litigation. I don’t do taxes though. And you are criticizing my opinion in areas I practice in and you do not without providing any basis for your position? Not convincing. I never said anything about damages either, what I said was if you sued under the UCC and had properly rejected or revoked acceptance for a chipping or blistering playfield you have an extremely high likelihood of winning the lawsuit and getting your money back or a new pin. I thought I was very clear about that. That’s all I said in addition to plastering the playfield so that it’s smooth again is not repairing a defective $10,000 machine sufficient to conform to the contract. As I said the ball merely rolling around the pin and scoring is not going to be enough to establish the goods conform to the contract. That will be $500 please.
Why don't you lead the charges for everybody here that has that issue with Stern then and see how it turns out?
I've done plenty of pro bono work for my fellow pinsiders, always happy to help!
You said, "the lawsuit was a guaranteed win", now its "high likelihood", getting more realistic but i KNOW you would never tell a prospective client paying you an hourly fee what you just said publicly here, as a 25 yr lawyer.
Let's have you try out a test case and see what happens? Prove it to me
You keep ignoring adequately "curing the defect" under the law, which Stern has done and can easily do, despite not solving the issue adequately in the court of public opinion, PINSIDE
A good lawyer understands both sides of the issue and knows when they have the facts on their side to argue. Legally, it's "highly UNLIKELY" you would win a lawsuit against Stern. And every case is different, you keep making these broad statements that just don't apply to each case. That's why i don't need 25 years experience in commercial litigation on something this ridiculous.
Yet again, its a moot point because neither you nor any other lawyer would take the case Carry on Rick 5 rounds and now its 5-0 
If you want a PERFECT GAME, get it restored by HEP or the like.
As i gaze amazingly and my gorgeous restored WH20 and near perfection, its just not reasonable to expect Stern, a mass produced game, 10K+ per year to be able to reach the same quality without costing MUCH more. Get it?
Quoted from rotordave:I don’t think most people expect a “perfect” machine.
They just want to have a machine that doesn’t shit itself a few weeks after they paid $7,000 bucks for it and then becomes a huge pain in the ass.
rd
Define “shit itself” RD
Because I buy a lot of Nib games and my pins have never “shit themselves”
So I do t want one of those either
But if you think pooling, minor ghosting is “shitting itself” then good luck as a distributor RD
What we all want is different from the legal issues and how defects are cured, like it or not
If Stern doesn’t do a good job on that front then they will go out business.
Yet I still see them selling out games like hot cakes one after another title. Those are the facts
If you want to argue about SHIT customer service and arrogant attitudes from Stern and JJP you aren’t getting any push back from me.
When you say things like “shit itself” or “falling apart after 90 days” it doesn’t help and is just NOT reality
Deal with facts and then make a decision on whether or not to buy another game in the future. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head
Quoted from GamerRick:I’m sure your a good man Iceman, and this has never been personal, but the more you talk the less like a lawyer you sound. And for an attorney, you’re not very adept at accurately reading my prior posts. At no time did I ever state that I guaranteed a lawsuit would be successful. I agree no attorney should make grandiose claims like that and if you can go back and read carefully you’ll see that I never did that. What I stated was if the manufacturers don’t address this issue properly I can virtually guarantee at some point a class action lawsuit will be filed. That was just an opinion about the likelihood of a lawsuit and it was based on the fact that there’s always some money grubbing attorney out there looking to file a class action lawsuit, because as has been discussed several times, the attorney gets paid 1/3 of the recovery and so usually makes a good amount of money on this type of case whereas the actual plaintiffs that suffered damages gets cents on the dollar. Perhaps you should take a few minutes and go back and read my comments before you so grandiosely attack them and not even get them correct. In my humble opinion, one does not give an expert opinion on something they’re not an expert on. Maybe you should stick to taxes.
Regardless, I was merely answering a question and correcting two incorrect statements about the law since this seems so important to people. You are the one that insisted I don’t know what I am talking about and keeps arguing about it, albeit without properly supporting your position. And if you are an attorney, you should be well aware that supporting your legal argument with authority is basic lawyering 101. It appears that your opinion is based on your commercial law course you took as a second year law student. Just stating that you think that something being fixed in your personal view will be satisfactory isn’t the criteria that the court would look at.
It’s all good Rick, def not personal. I’d love to have a drink or two at a show and argue the merits of legal issues and more importantly play some pinball in the future!
There will NEVER be a UCC case brought against Stern for anything I’ve seen that they haven’t corrected, nor any class action, EVER
As you hopefully hang in the pinball hobby for many more years maybe you’ll gather a different perspective on the reality of this hobby
Quoted from PtownPin:I've purchased many NIB games, but due to the FACTS (shitty customer service) have stopped purchasing anything new from JJP or Stern. I'm perfectly happy buying on the secondary market or waiting for CGC to release their next game.
There you go Ptown, I’ve stated repeatedly over the years that is the smart way to do it!
And btw, my MBRLE is a beautiful awesome machine so I agree on the CGC next game
Quoted from rotordave:I’m not a “mint condition guy” ... I have 130 machines and only like 10 were bought new. I just want them to be tidy and to play excellently, because — I play them. Hard.
However, recently a few of my buddies have got new pins and they’ve all been defective.
kiwipinhead has some, another buddy bought 2 last month and both have bad playfields. When he phoned the distributor about it, he was asked to “bring them both into the warehouse and we will take a look at them”. They cost $24,000, and he was asked to load them in his van and take them there. whaaaaatttt!
I would define a machine with paint flaking off the playfield as “shit itself” for sure.
A small mark on the cabinet .. some loose screws .. a flakey switch ... whatever. But a faulty playfield ... not good.
rd
Yes I know you well RD buddy!
Paint flaking sucks. Kiwi has been around a long time and I hate to see it happen to him
The bottom line really is “buyer beware”. And get a good distributor that you can count on
I just set up my JPLE and love it, haven’t looked for any imperfections but if I could play a HUO pin and wear out the PF in my lifetime, that would be a major accomplishment
Can you play 130 pins down to the bare wood? Man if you can you got a lot more time and I’m jealous!
Quoted from PtownPin:u got that right....MBRLE is incredible....
Quoted from PW79:Iceman puts the douche in fiduciary.
Bahahaha, kidding bro. I had to!
I love you Curly you skeptical bastard! Yes I’m still waiting on a Golden tee. Problem is so many great f ing pins have come out I haven’t shifted to plan B yet
That’s pretty damn good, I just caught the “douche” reference
JP kicks ass
Quoted from o-din:I've got Williams games from the early 60s with Plasticote that are holding up better than these pieces of crap.
We’re there any ramps on those games Odiner? How about the ball speed you old fart
And you f ers can take advantage of me when I go to sell my games. I give ZERO discount for pooling but it will be a fire sale price anyhow
Quoted from rotordave:A “home use only” pin will likely never get any wear at all, just clean them and change out the balls when they look crappy. And half of you guys hardly play them anyway.
But that’s missing the point ...
The point is, these things are shipping out in a sub-par state ... the buyer shouldn’t have to be “buyer beware”, he’s buying a brand new pinball machine with a big pile of his hard earned money, and he should expect the playfield to last for years. Not weeks.
If you’re willing to accept stuff which the price is going up and up, and the quality is going down and down, that’s awesome!
But bad playfields shouldn’t be happening.
And it needs to be sorted out.
rd
And people are free to buy or not buy. What’s your point? How many “bad pf’s” are there that don’t get taken care of by Stern?
What about Spooky?
I just spent a few hours on my new JPLE and loved it
And no, imho the quality is getting better
JJP? Can’t comment on it yet
Quoted from flynnibus:Don't worry about the sheep.... hearing what you want to hear is more critically valued on pinside than having to face realities. Hence the mob flocking to any prophet preaching what they want to hear.
Your comments have been much appreciated.
Aren’t you the all knowing prophet of pinball and everything else?
Maybe stay in your lane. Whatever that is
I’ll be at TPF, not Expo, drinks on me
Quoted from Wickerman2:This dude played down to bare wood in 27 plays.....that’s what the issue is....not damaged HUO games from normal use forchristsakes. Intentionally obtuse?
call Rick the UCC lawyer
How many claims have been made in the prior 30 years of operation by Stern?
How about Bally/Williams ?
Quoted from yancy:What the hell are you guys even arguing about at this point.
Well I’m enjoying my new JPLE game and waiting on Elvira LE next week.
Elwin and Stern have hit it out of the park again with JP.
If you actually play pinball you can’t help but love this game and pinball
Hate away. Some people just can’t/won’t give it up
If you have an issue with Stern. CALL them and/or your Distro. Forget about calling Saul!
Quoted from o-din:I think we are being told by lawyers to overlook the playfield issues as they are now all fixed.
You aren’t being told anything Odin
And YOU have no dog in the hunt either
Then again I just unboxed my new Stern game and omg, I just can’t find a f ing thing to reject my pin about. Oh the horror
But stoke up the fire, whatever, Better call Saul buddy
Quoted from Roostking:I dont understand why so many people are downvoting you lol Ice I can understand, since he is a lawyer, the rest just seem to be on his jock! Thanks for the information!!
Take a look at the roster of downvotes Rooster
It’s a badge of honor, trust me
When you are defensive and explaining with excuses you are lost and don’t get it
People that really get it know the truth and can make their own decisions
Quoted from Roostking:Don't you have 1.49 more seconds to non-lawyers 1 seconds of time? Get to flippin!
Lol. Yeah, f ing lawyers, heading back out to JP
I’m gonna need to buy a magnifying glass tomorrow to make sure I can preserve any UCC claims I might have against Stern 
It’s been fun and entertaining but can’t get sucked into the negative cesspool again
I’m already swirling down the toilet !
Quoted from Roostking:I want GamerRick as my lawyer, and Iceman as my accountant, so he can keep a check on GamerRicks billable seconds!
Now that right there is some funny shit!
Quoted from GamerRick:Yes he did. Happens often.
Agreeing with Wickerman doesn't count, a leader of the don't get it club. LOL
Quoted from o-din:That good eh? Kept you entertained for a whole 15 minutes.
Playing and posting at the same time Odiner, I can multitask! You should get some JP time, it covers several decades.
Until mañana, its been fun and entertaining!
Quoted from o-din:I get to play them all at my local distributer. Helps when I'm super stoned.
Took watching my buddy play a 15 minute ball on JP before I just walked away. He did too.
I'm watching the Dodgers while posting myself.
Have the Dodgers on too. You and Nimble walking away from JP is just sad, for you guys How stoned were you Spicoli?
I have a Gorgar coming soon. Does that float your boat?
Quoted from o-din:It wasn't Nimble, but another guy I compete with regularly. We don't like easy games with long ball times. Fortunately none of mine are set up that way. Theme does nothing for me anyway.
Gorgar is pretty cool. Haven't had that game in a couple years, but it was fun.
No doubt about it, I’ll take an easy game though after TWD kicking my ass for years until I finally conquered it
I love em all though, easy, hard, ugly, purty
FWIW, my pf looks great, no issues out of the box
I would have never known my MunstersLE had some pooling until Pinside pointed out the possibility. Ruined my life!
And if you ever need legal assistance, Iceman, aka My cousin Vinny, will be happy to take care of you Odin
I’m more of a Billy Bob Thornton from Goliath though!
Quoted from o-din:I figured out the positraction deal way before he did. Or his girlfriend.
Lol
Quoted from rotordave:Teds ready.
rd[quoted image]
Who put that lipstick on Red RD?
Little over the top don’t you think
Quoted from Utesichiban:Am I the only one that thinks sending a unpopulated playfield replacement as a solution for a brand new pin someone paid 6k+ for is unacceptable?
Good grief it would take someone that knows what they are doing 25+ hours to swap a playfield.
No you aren’t the only one. About 5 thousand other people have weighed in and feel the exact same way
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:And this is why I have not pulled the trigger on recent new Stern/JJP games. I decided to pick up a HEP TAF instead as I'm 100% confident the play field will not fall apart. Until folks stop buying defective games, the behavior will not change.
To each his own brother or sister.
JPLE is one of those pins you can’t wait to get home and play.
I’m having a blast and it’s NOT falling apart
And maybe after 100,000 plays I’ll send it to HEP for a restore
Quoted from o-din:You maybe. One of those games I couldn't wait to get home after playing.
You are about the only one Odiner. Like i said, different strokes. It doesn't play like an EM
Quoted from o-din:No, I'm not. I know others that don't care for it either.
What does that have to do with anything? Sure I have EMs that are more fun, but I am no stranger to modern games or any era for that matter.
Let’s see how many upvotes you get on the JP sucks theory
What are your top 3 pins
Quoted from o-din:Any three with a halfway decent theme that don't make me want to let the ball drain halfway thru ball one.
Like I said. Which ones?
I don’t drain on my JPLE. Maybe “play better” or the setup is bad
If you can decide you think a pin sucks after 15 minutes of playing it then you must have been high
Quoted from o-din:High enough to know when the theme being presented doesn't suit my pinball playing mood for any amount of time.
I've got a lot of games I like, or I wouldn't own 25 of them. But yeah, No Fear is a good one. In your face and faster than fk.
The other possibility is that you ate Nimble’s chili right before playing, had a code red, and needed to get the heck out of dodge
That would make sense
You are just a cranky old retired fart Odiner!!!
Quoted from o-din:It's only cranky old fart if I don't like what all you and the other pinside old farts do, right?
I don't know why you are so intent on making me want to go along with the crowd, when I already told you what I thought about another dinosaur themed game.
You are Spicoli that doesn’t run with crowd. I get it
Doesn’t change the fact that you like tired old Dated games Better than the awesome new games like JP
I don’t really give a F what you do or like. You are mistaken re JP though
I’m an old fart too, to each his own and JP is GREAT!
Quoted from PtownPin:At my pace it would take 200 years to get to 100K plays
That’s why you don’t need to ever worry about pf issues
Case closed
Quoted from PW79:I get a weird vibe about thinner clear & deleted art.
Feels like a temporary & similar but better solution to the washers implemented to understandably keep the line moving.
Dang... My AS has a thick glossy PF that compliments the artwork magnificently. It's a gorgeous F'n game. I'd hate to lose that attribute on all future titles
They seemed to get the formula right on AS, my LE is a beauty all the way around
My Munsters LE has some pooling. I could have lived the rest of my life and never noticed it until it became the new crisis
My Munsters Le pf is also a beauty and in great shape
Quoted from Mike_J:You’re 100% correct. I’m just not comfortable with the manner in which many conduct themselves.
But this is pinball Mike
Coin pushers and the like
Still, I’m freaking loving these new games from Stern
Jack and JJP, still waiting on my pins paid for
Quoted from EricHadley:Not me, I’m a big NIB buyer that past 3-4 years. But I am out out out on NIB indefinitely with Stern and JJP pins. This lack of transparency is Ridiculous. HUO works for me. Looks and inspect before I buy. Let others be their sheep. Fuck it. Peace out
I thought you were selling all your pins?
2 weeks later
Purchase protection link.
The reason Amex is much easier to deal with because they are the only party involved. Both the issuer and acquirer. Visa and Mastercard are issued by banks.
Give us a report back Mark after you talk to them.
These are the best of times for pinball manufacturers like Stern. You heard Dwight say they have been growing at about a 25% clip the last few years.
I know they shipped around 10K a few years ago so you can do the math.
And.....they along with many manufacturing companies received a significant tax break which it appears they are at least putting some of that money back into labor and hiring talent.
There is a major "wealth effect" going on right now with these highly impulse discretionary purchases. By its very definition Stern is considered a "consumer cyclical" company. Emphasis on the word "cyclical".
In other words, when interest rates are low, wages are rising, unemployment is low and the economy is at an all time high its hard to get any better for a pinball manufacturer and a whole lot of other businesses as well.
IF we had a bad stock market and declining economy, like 2008, that +25% would be going in the other direction. Yeah i know, some of you don't remember that date because it was so long ago, I guarantee you Stern does.
Does the party go on forever? Just in my own case, without this stock market and the overall "wealth effect" I'm buying pinball machines like a deranged crazy person.
I have "PAID IN FULL" for WONKACE, POTCCE, TBL, ELVIRALE and JPLE. That's about $53k worth of games of which i have only received ONE of them so far.
If i hadn't made so much money on Apple stock recently i probably would have purchased 2 of those games maybe?
I'm literally WORN OUT with JJP and have learned my lesson. No mas! Not until I pay and you ship the next day. PERIOD.
With Stern, the theme is gonna have to be great going forward for me to buy anything.
MBrLE is gorgeous and HIGH quality so CGC will get my first look on any new games coming out like CC and its new license, maybe MM.
The 3D back panel with special lighting on a game like MB, may seem like a little thing. But it goes to the overall quality and WOW factor. Same goes for the topper.
I'm amazed every time i look at that game.
Then take a look at a Stern back panel. They mail it in. At least on JP they tried to do a bit of the 3D effect and it looks pretty good.
My message to Stern, QUIT ripping out features on games you are trying to sell as "premium" and "LE's".
Put it ALL in there as the designer wanted it and then put your markup on it. If that means one LE is $500 more than the next one then so be it!!!!
The idea of every LE now is priced at $8995, no matter what's in it, for a cornerstone game, is on its face absurd and insulting.
If you need to charge me more because you put it all in there, do it.
Quoted from Lermods:So you basically have 30 days with jjp to file a claim if your playfield has issues. If your credit card company has a double warranty, you are at 60 days. But, you have to prove there is a defect. Is pooling a defect? Is a small chip a defect? In your eyes (and mine) yes, but maybe not to the CC company or the manufacturer.
I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to think it through.
if you buy a car and the paint chips in a small spot, can you do a chargeback? The car company at best will give you touch up paint. If you buy an appliance and there is a small chip, can you do a chargeback? Same thing, they probably send touch up paint. I’m sure it’s not what people want to hear and I’m not saying chips aren’t bad, they are very bad on new games and I’d be very upset, just not sure it’s as easy as people make it sound to file a chargeback. Has anyone actually done it and been successful?
I think anyone doing a chargeback will face a steep uphill battle. Better to go to the manufacturer and seek a solution. For games with chips, people have received unpopulated playfields, which should put the next buyer of your game at ease.
I have to agree with Lermods
I can’t possibly see getting a chargeback for pooling and realistically minor chipping as well
I think as much as it sucks, the best case we have to deal with is hope they get it right in the future or simply don’t buy their products anymore
My JPLE also has zero issues and thin clear
My MunstersLE looks great but has some some pooling. Elvira up next
Quoted from MK6PIN:AMEX adds an extra 2 YEARS to the warranty. I think a single chip wouldn't bother most. Much more concerned why it happened, and what these things will look/ play like down the road.
In your car example, GM was very in tune to color coats not sticking to the primer in around '10 (?)....started as a small grey spot, eventually entire panels were grey. They repainted alot of cars.
I don't have the pf issues on any of my games (just wear on some of the older ones), and cancelled my POTCCE and WonkaCE orders when all this started surfacing. Have never needed to file anything, and never paid with a card.
Guess I'm just sorry reading this....
GM didn’t replace the entire car I think is the issue here Mark
Lemon laws are in effect for that if can prove a multitude of problems and issues
For me, the pf issues will get resolved if not already
I may or may not buy for the other reasons I stated above
Stripping stuff out of LE and premium games just to make an extra buck or two is FAR more concerning to me.
Make the F ing game the best it can be as originally designed! The pro is cheaper because it has less features. WTF
Quoted from woody76:I just talked to my CC company and they said if the product is defective and I show proof the game got returned they would do a chargeback. Key was showing proof the Distro or Stern took possession of the game back.
I’d love to see someone try it!
Is anybody gonna run the risk of shipping the pin back? And they keep it unless you pay to ship it back?
Seems F Ed to me
Have you ever gotten a $10k chargeback?
Quoted from MK6PIN:Agreed.....
I've never understood why LE's couldn't have more usable features, as they cost more money. Apparently, it's not an acceptable practice (all games MUST play the same) by the community, so the manufacturers are capitalizing on it. The QC is really getting to me more, actually, as it just seems nothing ever gets "finished".....
If you haven't heard that Christopher Franchi interview it confirms again what we all know.
Gary and crew think they are so smart seeing how much they can squeeze out of a game and keep the prices sky high.
I would be thinking about how we could squeeze MORE in even if i had to raise prices to meet our margins. The "wealth effect" and great economy is not going to last forever! Because when the shit hits the fan, and it will, people will remember how they were treated.
The customer first should be what they think about every day. How can we keep delivering a greater pinball experience to our customers?
I think most designers, coders and everyone else that work at Stern are of that mindset and care passionately.
It's Gary and his partners grabbing the short term gains, and at the same time its setting up for longer term pain. That +25% production can turn around to -25% in the blink of an eye when you take your customers for granted AND then other factors start to against you like the economy.
I think you made the 100% right move getting that MMrRE
Quoted from Who-Dey:Stern would never hire you with an attitude like that because you make way too much sense.
They may not hire me or you Terry but they should listen to us. 
I bought my first pin from Mike at automated
They were closing out LotrLEs for $5200!
I needed a pin while I was waiting for Woz
I was a total newbie. It came with a pallet jack hole in the bottom of cab. I accepted delivery because I didn’t think it looked bad and didn’t really care.
Pinside told me what a dumbass I was . Mike still took it back and he worked it out with the shipper and sent me another one
2 months later
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Yup, but we may be in another steady state again lol. I took your advice from a while back and just bought a GoldenTee 2020 to put in my last pin spot. No dimpling, and no weird QC issues. Just finished setting it up tonight and having a blast so far.
[quoted image]
I'm with you Panzer.
Super chexx ice showing up on 21st.
Golden tee is next for me too!
1 month later
More clear, more dimples! JP and Elivira, less clear less deeper "dimpling". Duh.
Not an issue on Bally Williams game? BS
Super wood back then? Ever see a chewed up shooter lane. Yeah, lmao.
Don't put on Cliffys, protectors or mylar on your new Bricks game, you don't need it! LOL
Let's see what that shooter lane looks like after a few thousand plays without it.
Quoted from donkadelic:Nobody's saying that other games don't have problems, ever. What we're seeing is a drastic change in dimpling with the recent releases of Elvira, ST & some JPs. Please don't confuse the two.
WRONG! You are confused man. The drastic change is for the better in JP and Elvira with respect to overall quality and the pf. How do i know? I've bought most of the Stern pins since Ac/dc, my first one being a LOTRLE Nib.
Which, oh by the way, dimpled. And LOTRLE supposedly was the best clear job ever by Stern.
It's the most overblown hyped up nonsense EVER in pinball. LOL
Quoted from Vinnie:My local arcade's Elvira looks like it was shot with buckshot so I don't think less clear leads to less dimpling.
It does result is LESS DEEPENING OF DIMPLING BECAUSE THERE IS LESS CLEAR, and that is MY experience with just about every recent Stern pin. That is a fact and what i have seen and experienced. LOL
Quoted from MikeS:After seeing a R&M playfield up close in person I honestly don't think you need any of that stuff. Nicest quality playfield I've ever seen from a factory. It's jaw dropping. You don't need to go with a Haggis/Deeproot type playfield if you are putting out that kind of quality. It's amazing! Just wait for the reports once people start getting their games.
Great, then don't put anything on it, including the shooter lane and see how that works out for you.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:I think Stern may be picking up more customers than they are loosing. The Army is growing, not shrinking.
It's a fact. Maybe Operators are accounting for more of the significant Sales increase in the past few years but it also might be from actually making some kick ass great fun games!
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:They don’t. I don’t. But I want value, and as fun as some Stern games are, Im not seeing it. I also want accountability. Stern raises prices, lowers standards, and keep doing it “because they can”. And only reacts when the market gets real strident. Well, I want more from a company that gets my money.
Their behavior is unbecoming. It’s disappointing. I want Stern to succeed, making awesome pinballs that I want to buy and that I’m willing to buy. But with an occasional exception they don’t, and I consider it a big let down.
BTW, I just dropped 8 grand + on MMr, and I couldn’t be happier about that. The quality is outstanding and the code is complete. And it’s fuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn.
I couldn’t see dropping that much bread for a Stern made game. Not these days.
Exactly right, when they raised the PRICE to where it sits today, some people like yourself moved to the sidelines.
But "lowering standards", that's where you are wrong imo. What standards? I'll go back to TWD i bought in 2014.
I see nothing but "raised standards" myself in so many areas.
The LCD is phenomenal, the artwork has been "raised" several notches, the video, sound and callouts have ALL been "raised", theme integration. Not to mention great themes and coding. So that BS don't fly TFA.
The issue is PRICE, the rest is a bunch of BS excuses.
Why doesn't JJP sell more games? PRICE. It doesn't matter what's in them apparently. Stern sells 3 to 4 times more games, and don't use the Pro argument with me, JJP can't make one, that's on them. Why do you suppose that is? Because it COST too much to make.
People only want now what they can't have anymore! POTC. People crapped all over it UNTIL it became a "moneymaker" because of its limited production.
This just in. Everything costs more today than it did six years ago.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:That is the real issue behind all the complaining.
Well said Ice!
I am in sales so I would say perception of value.
Sometimes i amaze myself brother! LOL
Quoted from LesManley:I think he is referring more to the build standards. Between the ghosted playfields, separating cabinets, chipping playfields, pooling clear coat, single use coil stops, flickering sling / ball return GI and glaring widespread individual game build issues out of the box (Stranger Things lock post / one way gate, Munsters Spot optos, JP upper flipper post, etc...) along with the much debated cratering / dimpling playfields...I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue they have raised any standards there since TWD.
Since i've purchased just about all of them and seen the progression and regression from game to game, I'd say yeah, I damn sure don't want to go back to TWD.
Every game has issues. If YOU or anybody else thinks you can build em better, knock yourselves out. Until then, I'll enjoy what i see and purchase.
As for caring about quality control and fixing warranty issues, i was also right there in the middle of the GB pf mess. Did i get a new one? Nope. I've got some minor ghosting, no big deal to me.
A ton of people got repopulated PF's.
IF it really mattered that much, Stern would have never sold another game after GB. Think about that one.
Quoted from Who-Dey:He said he thinks the reason behind the complaining is the price of the games. I'm just saying theres more to it then that.
Iceman is one of my favorite people in the world just like you are, but I do not agree with him that stern is making better quality games right now than they did a few years ago. My TWD and the GOT that I just sold are WAY more solid and have better quality playfields than my newer games do.
For the money they are charging for these games we shouldnt even be talking about how bad of quality these games are. They should be top notch quality!
I get what you are saying brother Terry!
What i'm saying though is my TWD pf is cratered to shit and nearly pounded even because i played it so much. The pops setup in that game wreaked havoc. I see no difference honestly in any other game i've got and JP and Elvira are better than all of them. Now i've got some Munsters pooling and GB minor ghosting but its not anything major.
With "higher price" i'm saying people are less tolerant because we WILL lose money when we go to sell them. I get it.
Let's get you some new PF's!
Quoted from LesManley:Never said I could build them better, I can't. And yes, most are fun to play...that's not the question. Question was build quality. I maintain a high traffic route here that buys all the newest Stern games, including the premium games like Elivra and Beatles, so I have seen them all first hand and I have had to deal with fixing them all first hand. Based on that first hand knowledge, I would unequivocally agree that build quality has gone markedly down from just a few years ago.
I hear you Les and understand what you are saying, i'm a HUO guy that doesn't care about some of the things you Ops do.
The Vegas guy seems to have a different experience with some of his games. Sterns pro's going strong after 25k plays with just waxing and cleaning and JJP's falling to pieces after 10k.
I'll never play 10k plays on any one game much less 20k in my lifetime, although i put several thousand plays on my TWD for sure
Quoted from Who-Dey:The dimpling doesn’t bother me any but pooling and chipping certainly does. As far as my two playfields fo, i know that i am probably not going to be satisfied with their resolution but to be almost completely ignored for 8 months pisses me off. I think I will give Pablo a call tomorrow since I haven’t heard anything back from Stern.
"pooling" and "chipping" is defective. Chipping especially, that's not acceptable and needs to be addressed. That would really piss me off too. 8 months is WAY too long. I'd feel the same way brother!
You know i'm after these whiny crybabies that bitch and don't even have a f ing game to rightly complain about.
A lot of those GB pf's were a chip fest. Remember poor KPG and his GB! That was one F ed up PF.
Quoted from donkadelic:Are you familiar with the concept of two wrongs don't make a right?
You're suggesting I should OWN one of these pieces of shit machines so I can truly have an opinion on it? No thanks.
What an idiotic statement. You now go in the trash bin
All I need to know about you was revealed in the Bricks thread and yet here you are
And btw, I’m not suggesting you buy anything I do give a F what you do
Quoted from mbeardsley:I really don't understand Stern's strategy of releasing games with such incomplete software. All it can do is give a game a bad reputation that will be hard to overcome. Even if the software turns out to be great later (sometimes MUCH later), lots of operators don't bother with updating and I imagine lots of customers have moved on by then.
Sure, Stern wants to get the machines out the door ASAP, but selling a crappy game early can be a lot worse than selling a completed game later. That's something I DO have some experience with.
And yet Bricks is on “beta code” and shipping?
Btw, I have zero problem with them or anyone else doing that. I like the code progression
Very weak complaint
Quoted from EricHadley:1000 games in on my Elvira premium. LOVE THE GAME! Playfield is beautiful after 1000 games. No chipping. No pooling. Minor dimples, but barely noticeable. Whatever they did worked for this one, hopefully the new secret sauce is working.
Really Wacky? No shit, my JP and Elvira game is the exact same way.
So the reality means something?
1 year later
Quoted from paulbaptiste:I absolutely wanted to keep the game. If you look at my collection I dont own a single modern game outside of JJP. I've owned all their games and honestly wanted to keep all 6 in my collection. GNR broke me of that fantasy. That being said I truly hope they do find an answer and quickly as I feel they do make the most magical games in pinball and force Stern and the rest of the industry to compete and push the limit. We need that. We need JJP to keep innovating. Unfortunately their is a bleeding elephant in the room that needs addressed and customers (like myself) who need to know that the company we continually invest in also has our backs. I for one am rooting for a speedy and just resolution for all affected.
My 2 cents of course.
Sounds like JJP treated you fantastically.
Glad you got your issue resolved to your satisfaction with them.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:My distributor treated me fantastically. I would still not have resolution without him getting involved. Incredibly grateful I didnt buy direct as this would have totally pushed me out of the hobby. Im grateful for the resolution I received, dont get me wrong, but I wanted to keep the game. Returning it was the only viable choice I had.
Good to see the distributor do his/her job
It’s such a great game. Maybe you’ll get another one later
Quoted from thechakapakuni:Thanks Iceman & Icewoman
Who is “ice woman”. Can’t see it. Lol
Pics coming right up
Quoted from greeneye:You need to replace those metal washers ASAP
The slings have plastic washers. Go figure?
Quoted from chuckwurt:How’s the post on the upper playfield by the entrance to the lock?
It’s good too. Looked at that one as well. Doesn’t get the action the others do
I’m thinking if JJP put the silicone washers on the slings why didn’t they just put them all over?
Played some STH tonight. So good now as that code progressed.
Quoted from thechakapakuni:So what about the upper posts that are always pooling? You seem to be hiding those. And why the cabinet art? So far I don’t think gameplay has affected that. Come on!
Those are the upper posts in the pops? Lol
The upper pf posts are fine too. The cab art? Just because I was sitting here admiring it’s beauty!
Quoted from jimwe5t:Think STH is the sleeper hit. What a fun playing game with the fleshed out code. Man does that game flow!
As Erik knows, get it dialed in right with the rails and returns to the flippers right and it’s a helluva flow game. Lots of risk/reward
Anybody on the fence? The game is phenomenal if you like GNR
And the WOW factor won’t fade when you get it home and crank it up. It wow’s me every time I play it and only gets better.
It’s hard to beat. Just put several more games on it without incident. . Nothing else comes close on a pin
Quoted from jimwe5t:Icy, good to keep hyping its value, since you own it, we get it. Lol
But I don’t need the $$$ Jimmy. Chump change. Lol
Fun factor, wow factor and overall awesome game!
Now Kaneda on the other hand is blowing a nut over potentially losing some value on his flip.
I find it f ing funny that some people can’t think for themselves, use common sense, and instead listen to some clueless idiot about what to do and how to spend their money
Quoted from jimwe5t:Well he is now raising a family, so every dollar counts.
That’s why he needs to think about that new baby and quit whining about the value of his pinball machine! He can’t help himself. He’s addicted to drama and the desire to have the entire industry hate him so a few lemmings love him.
GNR is a great F ing game, little tiny chips or not
Quoted from DaveB:Considering Slash approached JJP to make the game I doubt the license was very expensive. The game looks absolutely amazing to me. Just hoping they are able to resolve the playfield issues so I can have mine ship. I’ve pushed it back hoping they can.
The pin is amazing all the way around. I know i keep saying it but that’s how exciting the game is
Mechs? That’s why you buy JPLE and enjoy that game. Or EHOHLE
It has excellent flow when you hit your shots. Outer and inner loops
The mechs are in the unique lights and rock show concert. phenomenal wow factor
Quoted from RETROCENGO:THIS is why JJP GnR Pinball playfields are Chipping (sorry for my language)
Vid disagrees so I vote with him
Quoted from jimwe5t:When Stern has issues, I equally jump all over them too. No favorites here, but when they do well I say good things, just like I’d do for JJP when/if they ever get their act together. I buy from both companies.
If Stern has a PF issue they stand behind it and offer a free replacement in their warranty. JJP does not, which is completely unacceptable. How can we continue to be a buyers for this kind of poor treatment as customers? We wouldn’t stand for it from any other consumer goods.
(Munsters shameful lazy lacking code effort by Stern is appalling.)
Just not true Jimmy. You are just making shit up now. Lol
I’ve purchased as many Sterns since 2013 as anybody
But I do agree, you rag on everybody without all the facts.
Quoted from jimwe5t:Thanks Icy, but how is anything I’ve said not factual, that’s not opinion based?
Not making anything up that isn’t opinion.
You focus on one aspect of the pf and ignore all of the other things that get screwed into it and go on top of it
I love my Stern pins but quality wise there is a lot of “junk” plastic and lack of quality all over it.
IMDN was a piece of junk. I could pick it up with one hand and spin it on my finger. I don’t know how many times I had to take that Sarco mech and captive balls apart, along with the back box subway. Parts fell apart in your hands.
My Elvira Haunted House took all kinds of tweaking and gluing to get it solid. The Dead Head crypt board is gone. The lock mech is pure crap and also needs adjustment
On every game. I still love the game!
I’ve got some minor pooling on my STH. Should I go down the list of things that had to be re worked, replaced and tweaked?
AIQ has had its issues too for me. But it and JP have been the most solid thus far
It’s part of pinball and doesn’t stop me from having a blast. One goes down, I play another until it gets fixed
Let’s put it ALL in perspective here
Quoted from thechakapakuni:All the issues you talk about are a 15 min tweak here, a 10 minute adjustment there. The PF is near impossible to replace (hundreds of hours) therefore will never get fixed. This is where the issue is. If you could replace a PF in 10 minutes we would be talking about how expensive pinball toppers are.
I’m not gonna argue about it because you know better. So does everyone else here
I can’t currently play EHOH, which is ok, because I’m waiting to get a crypt board which just got back in stock
IMDN was down for more time than it was up after sarco mech finally “disintegrated” in my hands, literally. Lol
There is no bigger fan of Stern than me as I buy most of their LEs but let’s try and keep it real here!
My MunstersLE is pooled up. My GBLE has major dimpling and ghosting.
My BM66 turntable had wiring get caught up and sheared off. Yeah, another 10 minute fix
Those PF issues haven’t cost me 2 seconds of
Time on my games and never will
Read the STH thread
These days? I pay my friend to come fix issues because I don’t have the time and don’t want to ruin my love for the games out of frustration.
I’ve got the invoices to prove it. Some 5 min fixes some much longer
Quoted from vid1900:Some of you experienced pinheads will remember when you'd get a warped playfield and the distributor would have populated replacement ready for you the next week.
They did not even want the old one back.[quoted image][quoted image]
Warped? Wtf, can you imagine getting one of those in your JJP game! Lol
Quoted from cooked71:Had the opposite experience with my IMDN ice. Perfect out of the box and still going strong.
You’ve really got to find a good huo LE with no problems and give the game a better chance. Absolutely one of Sterns top 5.
Been playing IMDN, Met, Wonka, AIQ, MM and Elvira tonight…..pinball Nirvana right there.
And zero Playfield issues on ANY of them.
It doesn’t surprise me Cookie. Normally I have very limited issues with my Stern games. Especially once they are tweaked and dialed in.
By the time I got IMDN all fixed up I just said F it, gotta move on. Really like playing it when it worked!
Im down to the Dead Head crypt board fix and then Elvira should be good to go
JP and AIQ perfect and awesome
Love STH too. Flippers fans fixed the Demo shot consistency. Not sure I’ll ever get ball lane guides right BUT TK lock works great. !
Yeah that’s some good pinball Nirvana brother
I thought i had landed on another site besides pinside when Stern kept receiving high quality praise while hearing JJP quality blows
Knock JJP pf’s but then citing Stern perfection and as the pillar of service Lol
Quoted from jimwe5t:Hoping they stay around too. Someone needs to give Stern some kind of competition, even if its small competition, better than having only 1 horse in the race.
How much does Stern pay you Jimmy per post? Lol
Maybe you are Elwin’s brother! He’s the best
Quoted from jimwe5t:Lol, but were both Cali boys…just sayin.
Well that f ing explains it then. He’s moved out and left you behind to fend for yourself. Lol
Quoted from jimwe5t:You’re going to play one of the most famous “cover bands” to rock the stage, with their best song, a cover from Sir Paul? But why not play some real pinball instead, unlike GNR that actually have some good old fashioned mechs in them, like AIQ or JP or IMDN or DI or MMr or AFMr or MBr or POTC (whoops they took out the best mechs in that game before release)??? (That’s what I’m playin)
What’s the mech in AIQ again? I missed that one. Great game nonetheless
IMDN ? POS sarco mech?
MB? What mech? Drac? Have it and love it but ZERO comp to GNR. Lol
Quoted from jimwe5t:What’s the mech in AIQ??? Thought you had an LE? Dr. Strange disc, you know the one that is motorized coming out of the PF??? Again Dr. Strange Vortex, motorized that moves balls across the lower subway, shooting balls up out of PIM/Antman lab? You missed those mechs somehow??? Lol.
Oh ok that disc is what you call a mech?
Pitiful.
The BM66 turntable is a mech
The Raptor on JP is a mech
Elvira house is a mech
Stranger thing Demo is a mech
The little POS Strange disc is NOT a mech of any significance. It’s pitiful like I said.
Still……. A great game. Yet GNR is much better and I have both
Quoted from jimwe5t:Surprised as always thought you felt AIQ is one of the best games ever. Sounds like you’ve become a JJP fanboy, once in hiding, posing as you liked Stern. Might be too much GNR bright LED strobing in your brain now. 600 of those little devils on GNRCE. Need to get you out to LA for a breath of dirty air to fog your head even more, Icey, Lol. GNR has got to be near the bottom of 6 games by JJP. MB after MB means Keith J. had no mech objectives to program for, so all he could do was program in nothing but MBs. Loooooool!
I love AIQ. JP is one of the best games ever with one of the best toy mechs ever. Elvira is most fun ever
I guess my point was not adequately communicated, AIQ is another example of a great game that has no toy/mech to speak of
I like my upper pf on GNR. Shooting the ball into a large disc hole to have to travel down a subway is real challenging! The “shine” of that beauty wore off instantly. Great game nonetheless
1 week later
Quoted from Flipper_Ripper:The egos in this hobby are particularly funny to me.
This i can 100% agree with. It's freaking Pinball! And while i love it as a hobby, it's NOT something i advertise to my normal friends and family.
They walk into my game room and see 23 pinball machines and a Super Chexx. I can literally see the various thoughts coming out of their heads by the stunned look on their faces. LOL
It's that WTF look most of the time. I don't even bother, they can't play pinball, slapping both flippers at the same time, draining and then walking away like "this sucks and you are an idiot"!
The "idiot" part might be true however.
But for anyone in this hobby to have some EGO is beyond ridiculous. It surprises me that Eric acted that way?
1 year later
Quoted from Zitt:I'm still waiting for the Toy Story 4 reports of delaminating and pooling Playfields. I find it really; odd, that there haven't been any reports yet.
Well maybe because they fixed the BS?
How about that?
Either way, not giving a shit about the PF I sold my TS for a loss. Adios.
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