(Topic ID: 249870)

Continued playfield issues with JJP and Stern

By f3honda4me

4 years ago


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#7001 3 years ago

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but does mirco's repro playfields have the pooling problem or is it just the new games? Are the repro playfields silk screened and the new ones digital printed? I don't know, but I am really starting to be a believer in the "its the printing thats going bad" vs a problem with the clear coat. If the printing isn't adhering properly, the clear won't stand a chance. Maybe the clear and the ink don't play nice together? I know this has been talked about, but I'm just saying its a good theory. Maybe all this bitching about the clear coat, and we should be bitching about the ink instead. I just want to know if the repro playfields are seeing the same problems or not.

2 months later
#7517 3 years ago
Quoted from Doctor6:

So here is my issue. You almost cannot tell the gap because in pics it is hard to see where the playfield touches the straight edge (and that IS a perfectly straight edge). But look at the far left ball guide. It is like 1/5 of an inch dipping! And it keeps dipping more as the side goes on. The balls can literally not be saved from outlane drains! If it wasn't infuriating it would almost be funny.
Unlike many here, I'd be thrilled as hell if Stern could replace this with a playfield. I'd gladly populate it myself, as it would be far better than this!
[quoted image]

holy crap!

1 week later
#7683 3 years ago
Quoted from jadziedzic:

Speaking of playfield issues, anyone notice anything wrong with this reproduction ST:TNG playfield provided by a customer for a playfield swap? (Hint: compare the hole sizes for the left and right flipper bushings.) The manufacturer's response? "simple solution, use a drill bit and open the hole up to the right size". Sure, as if the vast majority of the folks doing a playfield swap will be comfortable drilling a 1/2" hole through clear coat without chipping the edges or tearing out the edges of the playfield, to say nothing of getting the hole in just the right spot.
That's beside the "minor" issues of the upper mounting locations for three out of four rollover lane guides being off-center, one as much as the diameter of the pilot hole needed for a #8 post screw. Yep, the lane guides not being parallel with each other wouldn't be obvious at all, nor impact game play. Luckily the old holes will be covered by the #8 post installed at the correct locations.
And the "minor" issue of the routed holes under the playfield for the lower inlane proximity sensors not being routed as deep as the originals (too shallow by 1/8" or so), leaving me to wonder if the sensors will be totally reliable in game play. (I have bench-tested moving a ball through by hand and they appear to work, but who knows about a ball that comes whipping through there during game play?)
Yet another case of the people who make this crap not caring once they have their money.[quoted image]

Is this a Mirco PF by chance?

Quoted from Doctor6:

I mean, what kinda ultra hot sauna shit hole would I have to live in to make this board warp this bad on such a short amount of time? It would be inexcusable.

I've been in his gameroom and can confirm it is not even remotely an ultra hot sauna shit hole.

1 week later
#7766 3 years ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Thanks jorant.
That's interesting because there's been a lot of comments about Stern doing the PF 'in house'. Sounds like that's not entirely the case unless they do the CC in another facility.

They don't clear or print playfields in house from what I understand.

#7802 3 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

That’s really pretty generous IMO. They didn’t technically HAVE to do anything, and they still took care of you. Solid.

I agree, take what you can get. If the choice is between nothing, or an unpopulated playfield then its a no brainer and I'm gonna be happy about it.

#7805 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I have a blank playfied sitting in a box under my daughter's bed. My game is worth less because of a defective playfield, and the box under my daughter's bed does nothing to correct that.
So, before I opened my warranty claim, I had a game with a defective playfield. Now afterwards, nothing has changed. I've already been told that the spare blank field does nothing to add any value to the pin if I were to sell it. (confirmed by two prospective buyers who both walked away due to my clear coat issues).

Well lemme know if you want to sell that worthless game to me at a fair price lol. That PF doesn't add a lot of value, because the work involved to get it into the game, but it does add something. Your game would be worth far more if you did the work, so obviously having the playfield does something.

#7807 3 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

I don't care what anybody thinks is "fair" or not. My price for my SE is $7000.00

Yeah...I kind of figured that was the issue lol. If you want 7k then do the pf swap. Hell, you could probably get a little more because now you'll be including a bonus spare PF that somebody can use as a wall hanger. You're not gonna get top dollar for a car with a blown engine but a new one included, but its certainly worth more than a car without the engine included. I do agree, however, that its BS that you're in this predicament in the first place, but you do at least have an avenue of relief.

#7855 3 years ago
Quoted from amxfc3s:

Saw these yesterday on FB
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

ouch

2 months later
#8079 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It might just be time to return to silkscreen playfields..... you remember, when the ink actually stuck to the wood.

I still believe this is the main problem despite a lot of people trying to say otherwise.

The guy who built the black and white twilight zone told me CGC is still using diamond plate on their PF's and thats why they aren't having these issues. I kind of think thats incorrect but he swears thats what they told him.

#8082 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I mean, anyone can see that the ink has lifted away from the substrate on the majority of the digitaly printed problem playfields.
I have an inbox full of horrendous photos

I'm not even a playfield wizard like you, but thats exactly what I see and what makes sense to me. If the ink isn't staying bonded to the wood underneath, the clearcoat is going to fail wherever its stressed

#8090 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

With the next batch of G&RLE due here in June, are the new playfields that JJP & Mirco are supposedly checking still chipping/ lifting etc..

Thats what I'd like to know as well. Are there any instances of bad playfields on GNR that have the "quality assurance" post under the apron?

#8093 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I don't get the quality assurance post, how can a post covering 1/2" of the playfield be indicative of the entire PF quality.
You would hope the clear was applied equally and consistently over the entire pf, but how do you know?
Guess it's at least an attempt at some sort of QC - better than nothing

It doesn't give me a lot of faith either but supposedly those ones have the problem fixed. Thats why I am so curious to see if thats the case

2 weeks later
#8142 2 years ago

Per Kaneda, a fresh pic of a GNR CE. If I'm not mistaken all the CE's got the "quality assurance" post under the apron, plus the "bad batch" issue was sorted for CE as well, right? Looks like the issue remains. BTW no PF replacement for this poor soul

182759508_2831283587133660_970935555457537883_n (resized).jpg182759508_2831283587133660_970935555457537883_n (resized).jpg
#8144 2 years ago
Quoted from Colehvac1:

Wish i was in Illinois, i would have drove my game over to them in person. It would have been very unpleasant for them.

lol I love that idea. Is that your game in the picture?

#8153 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

That image is from the GNR owners thread
Did anybody really think the quality assurance post was worth anything?

I didn't believe in it, especially coming from Mirco, a known blame shifter. I was just willing to give it a chance to see how things played out. Just seems like more proof of the digital printing issue.

#8227 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Have a few 100 games on my Rick & Morty and the PF looks great.
Wonder what their secret sauce is

its funny that that playfield is made by the same people who made the original run of WOZ that had horrible issues. They obviously have corrected the problem but JJP must have burned that bridge already.

1 week later
#8243 2 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

I have been sealing my restorations & new playfield production with Varethane water based interior gloss the last 13+ years. I apply usually 2 coats before they go to the printer. So with Covid & a shortage of lots of building supplies. I am trying out the outdoor version of Varethane. The first 3 Star Gazer turned out better than the last 13 years. The product is cleaner!, & I still put it through a auto paint filter into my HVLP gun. The old stuff had wood fiber & other junk. The consistency was thicker compared to thinner outside version. The first 3 look like they only require 1 coat to seal & ready for printing. So I will test these for finish clear coats, & if everything looks fine switch to the slightly higher cost outdoor Varethane Gloss.
Mirco does not state what products he is using for sealing or finishing playfields. Mirco & CPR do not state what uv inkjet printers they are using. Same with all the other playfield manufacturers that want to keep the secret recipe! Like I have stated my printer still prints my glass & playfields with a 10 year old Canon OCE Arizona uv flatbed printer.

yikes

#8374 2 years ago

I planned on buying a NIB this year and really really wanted GNR. I chose DP instead because of the long wait time and potential playfield issues with GNR. I'm considering going for another NIB and I still want that GNR but with the playfields the way they are I just don't think I could pull the trigger. Its not an isolated issue in my mind. Its way too common. We saw it on other manufacturers games in the past, but they at least made a solid attempt at rectifying it. Mirco continues to blow smoke up everyones ass and I just cannot fathom why JJP is still in bed with him. Hopefully this is the last game where they use Mirco playfields.

1 week later
#8535 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:Would the dealer come to your house to look at a paint scratch or some kind of blemish? Would they take the tractor away, strip it down, fully repaint it, reassemble, and deliver it back for free? That would be the better analogy.

That's a bad analogy for 2 reasons.

#1 the paint on a mower is not of equal importance to the "paint" on a playfield. The playfield is as important as the engine is on a mower imo

#2 if the paint on JD mowers suddebly started flaking off in giant chunks within weeks or months of ownership they most likely would do something about it. That's a glaring issue.

#8546 2 years ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Disagree, how many fantastic playing older games are out there with heavily worn playfields? Chipping is purely a cosmetic issue...

Quoted from jawjaw:

Why the downvotes? It's technically true. None of these issues prevent games from working 100% and earning money on location. To equate these issues as catastrophic failures like an engine grenading in a car is a stretch. That doesn't mean it's not important just a whole separate thing.

Yeah except those games probably have 10's of thousands of plays on them, from the gorilla handed public, with little to no care taken before they showed that wear. Plus, they were not designed to last very long, and the value is severely dimished. They also didn't cost 9-13k, nor were they designed primarily for the home market or to be collectors items.

1 year later
#9061 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

Yes, Stern Whitestar and Sam system games. My Stern Star Trek (Sam) has an awesome playfield. It wasn't until Spike that the real problems started. Mirco as well.

False. There were several star treks that had playfield completely blowing out extremely quickly. The point I'm trying to make is everyone wants to say "this is when it started" except they are almost always wrong. Its been happening for a long time. Then the discussion circles around yet again to points that have been covered ad nauseum over and over again like "its banned chemicals" (false) and Diamond plate never had issues!! (also false)

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