I replaced mine with the plastic protectors from Mezel Mods on my Star Wars Premium, look better than stock and don't damage the balls

Stern still silkscreens correct? I saw a tour walkthrough on YouTube with George Gomez that may be a couple years old and they were doing only silk-screening at the time

Are you talking about a ribbing look on the playfield? I never thought this looked bad, just me though...

I'm new to the hobby, my SW Premium has a slight wood grain at extreme (nose in the cabinet with a flashlight) angles but with perfect clear, and no pooling...had I not seen the grain as a disliked feature on pinside, I wouldn't have even noticed it... I dunno, I guess it looks like wood to me.. I have some high end Gibson guitars and the grain on those gives them character, even under a nitrocellulous laquer finish...

Hey Hawk, I posted in the other Prem/Le club thread, but am reposting it here since this is the issue thread... There's a user on pg 20 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-jurassic-park-le-club/page/20#post-5235583

of the club thread, The Gunnett, with the exact same white rescue color insert in the same location as yours... Just FYI so you him and anyone else (or maybe Stern reading this) with the issue can let Stern know there is another QC issue with the insert color it seems
Screenshot_20191005-013525_Chrome (resized).jpg

Stern and your distributor came through. Major Kudos to them and might I add that your handling of the issues was both professional, mature, and well documented. Here's to your new playfield!!!! Glad this had a good ending.

I like the newer thin clear on my JP Premium...way way less dimpling, almost none after 600 games, very tiny actually compared to my SW premium...if that is the new normal going forward, I like it. looks glossy all the same waxed up to a nice shine...hearkens back to older machines without the flaking, chipping, clear pooling as of late

I can probably guess those areas (mine were the curve guide to the right of the raptor pit leading to the tower, the guide to the left of the right ramp, and the guide near the 180 halfpipe in the S lane/launch lane)...I loosened all my guides when I bought mine and put fiber washers in, and rebent two of the guides slightly as they were off...my guides were definitely torqued down way too tight and would have probably led to chipping...I stopped the most severe one and recleared it with some water thin superglue the minute I noticed some clear scraping, luckily it was under a guide and looks perfect after the fix..I have almost the same build date as you... It definitely required some early intervention preventative maintenance and is now perfect and chip/prone free.. But I guarantee if my pin went straight to a route without any tweaks... There would have been at least 3 bare wood spots right now

That's great news!!!

The post prevents SDTM drains on non flips... It should divert to the left sling or flipper depending on how you have your upper right flipper angle adjusted and the speed of the ball off the guide

It was most likely synthetic, if not, hard maple... They resurface wood ones every couple years

When I got my JP Premium, I noticed the ball guides being pretty tight. I loostened them all and inserted a very small fiber washer around all the posts (cut a slit in them so I didn't have to remove the guides completely...resucurred and hand tightened and haven't had one problem with over 5000 plays. I could tell though if I hadn't intervened, there would have been scraping and pooling eventually. Wonder why stern doesn't just add the fiber washers at the factory, you literaly can't see them and they don't change the geometry of the rails at all. Could probably do an entire game for about $2 in washers

It looks like the ball guides have a new design (on Avengers) that has raised them up off the playfield and they only make contact at the connection points. I can't tell from all the angles, but it appears that guides digging into the playfield should be a thing of the past. Hope this is correct!

First thing I did on my JP2 Premium was loosen all the guides and insert a small fiber washer (cut a slit in on side to get around the post without having to undo playfield - it will hold just fine after) then just hand tighten to the first point of resistance. The washer sits in the post hole area, doesn't press on the playfield and there is enough contact to hold it in place yet keep the rail off the playfield completely. I have over 5000 games on my machine now and it looks brand new

I got them at Home depot in the specialized parts aisle near the other fasteners, they have various sizes to accommodate most rail solutions

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware/Fiber-Washer/N-5yc1vZc21mZ1z0ztch

I used the 1/4 inch ones on mine

It looked fixed on TMNT, most of those rails look raised, guess they had some old stock they needed to utilize on AIQ

I didn't see any, he detroyed the star post and max torqued it in too with just a slight scrape

True, only a test of time will truly show if it's up to the task...Plus I think the pooling with the clear is a gradual thing, time and pressure to move the clear like a fluid...Not necessarily a quick tightening, although I think they are heading in the correct direction and I was just commenting that I didn't see any pooling after his torque test.

I wonder since these were the first 100 LE's if those had the older style Mirco clear method and the new version they are doing as described in the Pinball Expo video is what they have since switched to...we'll probably never know when those first playfields were produced, fingers crossed, I hope this isn't Wonka all over again

Here's a better angle, I rotated it and zoomed in, you can see the post digging in and the clear pooling in front of the chip

chip.png

I thought they did the clear now also, Jack Danger mentioned it in the video but said we're not going to show you that room.

I couldn't see it well enough in the pic last week, this one the pooling looks worse

I think this is why I've had good luck on my pins, before playing them, I always put in the ridgid plastic guards from Mezelmods... All the pressure from the rubber seems to translate mostly to the extra rugud plastic and I just have the star/sling posts just hand tight

I'm not an engineer, but made this in 5 minutes in photoshop..why can't they develop a flange that sits under the playfield, secured from below and the post is actually part of the flange that goes through the post hole with a threaded center to screw down the plastics to (They could even polish or coat it to look pretty). It doesn't seem like rocket science and you'd never have a sling post (or anything that takes a pounding) ever touch the surface of the playfield again.

flange.jpg

Maybe for games currently produced, but factor that design into the process going forward and build around it. Stern removed and redesigned the playfield art. I don't know the clearance of the JJP GnR but just looking under my Stern JP, there would be room (see below)..just incorporate the room going forward and problem solved. Plus it doesn't have to be a square, could be circular, just big enough to hold the flange, could even secure the flange with tap in Tposts below similar to a shaker motor mount...just spitballing....but it seems like a washer is treating the symptoms and not the issue.. I'm just a player and owner, I don't care how they do it, but obviously any contact from posts on todays's clear is a bad combination...That is unless we aren't seeing the new Mirco playfileds yet and these are all old stock/early run/prototype pics having the damage.
20201024_115044 (resized).jpg

...

Great idea, make it one assembly part, even more rigidity and strength

Yep, it could be a tap in from the top too, I just though my idea secured it more instead of the inner playfield hole taking a pounding and stretching out over time

Very true, it is a mechanical bandaid, albeit better than a washer if it could be made...I dunno, it's just frustrating as I'm sure it is for the designers and builders...I'll live with the washer if thats the best they can do, or hope that that in combination of the new formula from Mirco does the trick...A nice official statement would help the speculation too...it's obvious they are now aware of it. Unfortunately, I'm guessing those 100-200 machines already made have older fields and that is a lot of $$$ for repair costs going forward for replacements, so they're probably choosing to handle the fallout on a case by case basis for those owners..on locations probably don't care, early home adopters may get a playfield with the new formula if they are affected...but it would be nice to have something stating the timelines of the new playfield Mirco formula going forward to get ahead of this in the PR/Panic department for those of us waiting on shipping dates

I posted this on another Facebook group but it's appropriate here

It's a balancing act - if JJP blows the whistle and declares those fields defective, then all would be entitled - for lack of a better term, to a manufacture admitted defect which could be $$$...so a case by case solution is probably what they are doing while swapping in the new formulas and using the washers as a temporary bandaid like Stern did on Jurassic Park until they can either stand behind the new Mirco formula or go further and pull the art back from the sling posts...either way they are walking a tightrope between hype/sales/consumer coinfidence/liability...so it sucks for us, but down the road it may be best to wait and hope for the best
..

To your point about the companies, I agree...It's like leftovers from the old Operator only years..but the times and especially Covid has shifted a large protion of the consumption to home collectors versus arcades. To operate like a secret society, good 'ole boys club reeks of a Used Car sales lot and shady practices. If you want to put out a lifestyle/collector brand at these marked up $$$, you need to get on board with what MS and Sony does in the hardware world and stand behind the product and release real Service Alert Bulletins and timelines. A little info goes along way for good faith and trust Back in the day of the Xbox 360 red ring of death...MS recalled all of their products and provided a way to send it back for a fix or a full replacement...Look where MS are today, instead of what could have become a PR nightmare, they are about to unseat Sony from the market share with the new Xbox Series X

and Mylar up

...

I know, but that's what other's have called it, so I'm just using it as a placeholder/knickname since there is no official name of the new clear if there is even one so it just references the coating timeline..If I just said Mirco clear, it doesn't give a timeframe...and Spectrum is just easier than saying..."The new Mirco Clear Coat Process demonstrated in the Pinball Expo Video..."

I'm also calling the Drumstick return the "Thunderchucker return" even though it's Vater

P.S. I did go back and edit my posts though and take out the Spectrum parts to avoid confusion

P.P.S. Why are you shouting, it's my first offense

Gotcha, it's all good...these are 1st world problems too, I've been off work for 206 days and counting and sometimes this stuff just has no where to go

I think that's what's causing the issue though, time and pressure, not sliding or digging in as described with the leg example. Maybe to a slight extent with the "pooling" showing on the inner sling where the force is directed downward from the sling. I think it would be better to isolate the sling posts with more rigid plastics onthe top of the posts to prevent angling/towing in at the bases as the sling rubber pulls inward. But you can see perfect 360 circles on posts that have no rubbers and the washers or posts sink uniformly into the clear..I would actually say keep the posts as loose as possible, just hand tight as much as they won't move when the slings fire but not enough to cause any excess pressure, that in conjuction with reinforced plastic protectors for rigidity

Genius!

Agreed, but before I launch a ball on a new game, I survey the hell out of it and look for problem issue areas and apply preventative maintenance where I can. Granted, shouldn't have to, but I'm not going to confuse my desired with actual reality and pretend that the games have have been QC'd 100%, they just aren't, they get close but I temper my expectations.

It was pressing firmly into the playfield, when I released the bolt tension, the guardrail actually sprung back into it's correct shape... I mean it was Really torqued down... It has some scratching already without a ball being played, I Novus2'ed it and waxed and buffed to a gloss... So I raised it, put a strip of mylar down ... Hasn't been a problem and the raptor tower shoots like butter with the washer.

I'm always curious of this statement, but how does that matter in this situation. We've seen playfield look perfect out of the box, then for some reason at play 250 (hypothetical) things fall apart. How does buying used grant some sort of immunity or insurance against this sudden playfield destuction phenomena? Unless you're talking about waiting years and have thousands of plays under a games belt. I don't buy used cars for the same reason (Cargument warning) - I don't want to inheret someone elses problems or hidden issues of neglect.

Fair enough, so I assume some people will wait years to buy the GnR LE..I'm patient but not that patient

I guess my thought wasn't communicated correctly, too much coffee. My point was that some people will wait years to see if all the issues have worked out regardless, others will trust that if they haven't seen anything in the first couple months used with no problems they will be good to go, me included for new pins based on online feedback but I'm admittedly rolling the dice on GnR (hoping for good rollout reports from here on in) . I just don't like the used idea though as I said before, I've had bad luck with other peoples hand-me-downs, irrespective of timelines. I guess you're right though, NIB, used, doesn't matter I guess it's your own comfort level. I'll admit, I like shiny new stuff.

Gotcha, understand!

...

..moved to GnR Thread

moved to GnR thread

I have an April 2021 build, and while the pooling isn't there like the original 100 LE's that were built, mostly due in part to the factory clear washers they are now using...the problem has not been fixed. I know a bunch of people who have PM'd me and we all have common wear/pooling/art missing spots. The key other areas on GNR are the two pop posts with small washers and the post right above the inlane divider and the post on the top of the playfield near the lock lane

I am convinced that until JJP changes their art printing as Stern did, by removing art from the posts, and /or putting larger clear washers, this issue will never end under the current allowed Clear formulas/process. Or until hey do a Haggis and go acrylic hardtop. Or sneak a peak at American Pinball or Spooky methodology

Every CE that went out the door had either the "new" Mirco process done to it as my LE did and all LE's being built right now. Sure there will be those that say...My playfield is perfect...okay, say that after 500-1000 games.

There hasn't been enough wear testing on certain other problem areas of GNR and I bet I could go to everyone with a new game right now and point to areas that will either start to pool and bunch up or already have started.

Don't know what the solution is except calling out the problems in public

This is from my April build. and here is my fix for just one of the areas I mentioned above...the other areas were similar. The washer below was sunk into the playfield from overtorquing
20210504_011057 (resized).jpg20210504_015904 (resized).jpg

Also take into account this first photo is way zoomed in...I'm monitoring and will most likely apply a washer fix to as well. The posts and washers near the left loop orbit entrance. Again, new April build under new Micro process

The playfield does look great overall and most posts appear fine with no pooling, just sone assembly line over tightening and incorrect washer choice in some of these areas.. Along with the clear technique in use.

20210506_113740 (resized).jpg

This is the same post at a slightly different angle, not zoomed in... You can see how light, and distance plays a part.

If you're looking for pooling, you may find it

But most people who just play and don't look at OCD levels well be fine with maybe a couple washer fixes along the way.

I'm not defending or taking sides... Merely posting my findings.

Although I would pay $$$ for a JJP Acrylic or the like, playfield to not have to worry about these issues.

At the end of the day, it is pinball and our machines like all of us are falling apart the minute they are born.
Screenshot_20210506-115753_Gallery (resized).jpg

Just be proactive and get these posts on clear washers early (unfortunate but necessary right now) and you shouldn't have further issue

I've found by blocking these issues early on, I can confidently play it...Just have to get on it right away or before even flipping the pin.

What's crazy is the rest of the playfield is beautiful and holds up to ball play better than my other Sterns.

I haven't listened yet but read some on TWIP...was he talking about Haggis or was he talking about the flexible playfield sheets installed post delivery. Seems it was the latter as he was referring to raising bumper and sling heights, which would be accomodated already for on the Haggis pin but not on the playfield protectors

We might be talking about different things here (or maybe you meant to quote someone elses response), I was talking about the post above and the playfield plastics reference, not dimpling. I personally don't care about dimpling and accept it as part of the hobby

This is what he said about the playfield (I think he is referring to the Playfield Protectors and not the Haggis solution but you never know - but he does say Europe and not Australia)

George Gomez: You can make it work, those guys in Europe put the plastic on the playfields, which by the way I think is absolutely atrocious. We spend so much time trying to make a pinball machine feel the way it does and shoot the way it does. And then these guys come and add a sixteenth of an inch and everybody says “oh, it’s just a couple millimeters”…yeah I know, but the position of your drop target or your standup target or your ramp flap, whatever, relative to the – you didn’t move the target up, so the ball is hitting the target at a different place, at a different height…[and] on the plastic, the ball tends to slide as opposed to roll on certain shots. When it skips, forget about it…it is a wild ball. That is the issue with the polycarbonate solution.

Could be, that is a form of polycarbonate on the Haggis field right?

Where would I find the playfield date commonly on a JJP? I have a 4/21 build as well

Thanks, found it on the top edge pf the playfield

April 21 Build

Jan 21 Playfield

Screenshot_20210520-151304_Video Player (resized).jpg

No, it doesn't get that warm. It does take considerable heat (heat iron/gun) for it to melt to flatten the pooled areas

I think GnR is a fantastic flow game. Multiple inner loop to simultaneous multi ramp combos, staging balls on the flippers, while holding a ball on the upper playfield to either time the VUK, the lock or the lights target, multiple combos as an example.. I love the subtlety and smoothness of the flippers, able to do all sorts of flipper tricks for different scoring strategies. Love the game after I washered up, no further damage 1000 plays post PETG clears. My game looks beautiful after I ironed out the pooling.
Stilll one of the best out there.

Mine looked just like that. Cary Hardy used one of my pics in his video. Follow my guide here. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-official-jjp-gnr-thread/page/226#post-6338289

You DON'T have to crank it down. In fact you can use a little larger metal washer than the factory (with a larger hole - keeps the rail centered where you tighten it). When tightening, use your hand and hold the guide firmly while tightening from below on the nut. Do some test rolls with the playfield flat and keep repositioning until you get a perfect roll off the rail to the left flipper. It takes some trial and error but once you find the sweet spot, make it hand tight and you're good.